TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #4

[Via Marple]

She shot at him twice---once from the entryway area and once from the kitchenette area which is located right after the entryway. That shows she was advancing on him.

Ballistics is another area that I would like to find out at the trial.

Only forensics is going to tell the story. Two people were there and one is dead. Something else is going to tell me if AG's story is believable.

We had discussed the shots and layouts of the apartment upthread, more than I can remember.

 

[Rocco]

Ballistics is another area that I would like to find out at the trial.

Only forensics is going to tell the story. Two people were there and one is dead. Something else is going to tell me if AG's story is believable.

We had discussed the shots and layouts of the apartment upthread, more than I can remember.

Her story is that she went into the wrong apartment, saw a silhouette, assumed it was an intruder and shot at him twice, hitting him once. She turned on the light and realized it wasn't her apartment. She then called 911 for help and to explain 18-20 times that she went into the wrong apartment, shot a man, and needed an ambulance and a supervisor.

Is there anymore to her story that would be helpful to her? Because so far all I'm seeing is that she's admitted to killing an innocent man in his home.

If her defense is going to be she made a mistake and went into the wrong apartment, I don't think that's going to fly. It's what she intentionally did after she gained entrance into the wrong apartment that she's going to have to have a reasonable explanation for.

"I was in fear for my life"? Nah---she never said that in her 6 minute 911 call.
"He came charging after me"? Nope--she never said that either.
"I was tired and made a mistake"? Sorry--we're all tired a lot of times and we don't shoot and kill people in their homes.

What's her explanation going to be? Anyone?

 

[SandyQLS]

She shot at him twice---once from the entryway area and once from the kitchenette area which is located right after the entryway. That shows she was advancing on him.

What does any of that have to do with BSJ trying to get away from AG? You've mentioned this at least twice and with all caps "get AWAY" but your response is about potential moments of AG not your statements about BSJ's movements to get away. ?

I am asking because my understanding is that BSJ was standing and that he did nothing, he did not move or attempt to flee. AG claims she gave commands that he ignored, so she shot him. I am not aware of reports of BSJ making any sort of movements at all, which makes AG's discharge of weapon worse for her since she has not claimed he moved suddenly in any direction, or was reaching in any way like for a weapon, or she mistook his attempt to flee as threatening.

I thought I might have missed news about forensics showing movements by BSJ. Thanks.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Her story is that she went into the wrong apartment, saw a silhouette, assumed it was an intruder and shot at him twice, hitting him once. She turned on the light and realized it wasn't her apartment. She then called 911 for help and to explain 18-20 times that she went into the wrong apartment, shot a man, and needed an ambulance and a supervisor.

Is there anymore to her story that would be helpful to her? Because so far all I'm seeing is that she's admitted to killing an innocent man in his home.

If her defense is going to be she made a mistake and went into the wrong apartment, I don't think that's going to fly. It's what she intentionally did after she gained entrance into the wrong apartment that she's going to have to have a reasonable explanation for.

"I was in fear for my life"? Nah---she never said that in her 6 minute 911 call.
"He came charging after me"? Nope--she never said that either.
"I was tired and made a mistake"? Sorry--we're all tired a lot of times and we don't shoot and kill people in their homes.

What's her explanation going to be? Anyone?

Well put and I totally agree.

I think her explanation is going to simply be "I was in my apartment and saw an intruder" - end of. The defense has to convince the jury that the castle doctrine applies. Although this is complete and utter BS, I am fearful of the Texas ethos that could give her a pass.

I can't help but wonder what we'd be talking about if it were he who walked into her apartment and shot her. IMO he'd be convicted and locked up for life already. There is such a double standard here it's pathetic.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

What does any of that have to do with BSJ trying to get away from AG? You've mentioned this at least twice and with all caps "get AWAY" but your response is about potential moments of AG not your statements about BSJ's movements to get away. ?

I am asking because my understanding is that BSJ was standing and that he did nothing, he did not move or attempt to flee. AG claims she gave commands that he ignored, so she shot him. I am not aware of reports of BSJ making any sort of movements at all, which makes AG's discharge of weapon worse for her since she has not claimed he moved suddenly in any direction, or was reaching in any way like for a weapon, or she mistook his attempt to flee as threatening.

I thought I might have missed news about forensics showing movements by BSJ. Thanks.

"AG claims she gave commands that he ignored, so she shot him."

And yet we've never once heard exactly what those commands were. It's very, very curious to me that was not explicitly stated in the affidavit.

Imagine sitting on your couch in your home in the semi-dark and the door bursts open. Someone starts yelling. I would stand up immediately for sure, just like BSJ. I'd probably be yelling who the F are you, WTF, and such.

What could she have said that would make any sense to him that he would immediately obey her commands? And just how many seconds would it take for anything to register to him - as in 'OK for some reason there is a cop in my house, and I need to obey and put my hands up' - before she opened fire?

 

[Rocco]

"AG claims she gave commands that he ignored, so she shot him."

And yet we've never once heard exactly what those commands were. It's very, very curious to me that was not explicitly stated in the affidavit.

Imagine sitting on your couch in your home in the semi-dark and the door bursts open. Someone starts yelling. I would stand up immediately for sure, just like BSJ. I'd probably be yelling who the F are you, WTF, and such.

What could she have said that would make any sense to him that he would immediately obey her commands? And just how many seconds would it take for anything to register to him - as in 'OK for some reason there is a cop in my house, and I need to obey and put my hands up' - before she opened fire?

You make some very good points.

I also think it's odd that in her rambling 911 call she never mentions that she gave him commands and he ignored them, so she shot him.

 

[Rocco]

What does any of that have to do with BSJ trying to get away from AG? You've mentioned this at least twice and with all caps "get AWAY" but your response is about potential moments of AG not your statements about BSJ's movements to get away. ?

I am asking because my understanding is that BSJ was standing and that he did nothing, he did not move or attempt to flee. AG claims she gave commands that he ignored, so she shot him. I am not aware of reports of BSJ making any sort of movements at all, which makes AG's discharge of weapon worse for her since she has not claimed he moved suddenly in any direction, or was reaching in any way like for a weapon, or she mistook his attempt to flee as threatening.

I thought I might have missed news about forensics showing movements by BSJ. Thanks.

I somehow got the impression that he had moved back from where he was when she started shooting. It was at the beginning of the thread when we were discussing the layout of his apt. I certainly didn't mean he turned around and tried to run away because if she started shooting from the entryway, and the shots were one after the other, he wouldn't have time to do that. And where would he go? The bedroom was to the left of the entryway IIRC. He was trapped in the living room area.

 

[mickey2942]

https://atlantablackstar.com/2019/0...gunned-down-botham-jean-in-his-own-apartment/

Normally, I don't second guess actions of LEO. If AG had actually been working, and shot BSJ, I could easily see her going free.

Not one of us has made a case for AG. When has that ever happened?
https://atlantablackstar.com/2019/0...gunned-down-botham-jean-in-his-own-apartment/

 

[sloane7777]

Well put and I totally agree.

I think her explanation is going to simply be "I was in my apartment and saw an intruder" - end of. The defense has to convince the jury that the castle doctrine applies. Although this is complete and utter BS, I am fearful of the Texas ethos that could give her a pass.

I can't help but wonder what we'd be talking about if it were he who walked into her apartment and shot her. IMO he'd be convicted and locked up for life already. There is such a double standard here it's pathetic.

This case reminded me a little of the girl who was in her bedroom / boyfriends apt she shared with him on the bottom floor and swat or DPD was looking to serve a warrant on him and went to the bedroom window after knocking she was asleep alone and they broke the bedroom window or opened it and she shot one of the cops/ her defense was I was asleep and someone was coming thru my window - she got a lot of time in prison the LE said they identified themselves but she said she never heard a thing until someone either broke it or opened it (cant remember which) does anyone know this case if I recall it was approx 8 years ago.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

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[imstilla.grandma]

According to court documents, Guyger, 30, was still in uniform after her shift when she returned on Sept. 6 to the South Side Flats apartment where she lived. She told investigators she put her key in the apartment door, which was unlocked and slightly ajar, and it opened. Inside, the lights were off, and she saw a figure in the darkness that cast a large silhouette across the room.

Guyger drew her firearm, the affidavit said, “gave verbal commands that were ignored by (Jean), and then she fired two shots.”

One of them fatally hit Jean in the torso.

When Guyger called 911 and was asked where she was, she returned to the front door to see she was in the wrong unit, according to the affidavit.

Merritt and Jean’s relatives have questioned Guyger’s version of the events, although they haven’t ascertained a motive.

An affidavit for a search warrant states that Guyger and Jean encountered each other at the door to his apartment, instead of having an exchange across the room.

After the shooting, Guyger’s blood was drawn to be tested for alcohol and drugs, according to Hall. Authorities have not released results.
White Dallas police officer fired after killing neighbor

 

[HongKongPhooey]

According to court documents, Guyger, 30, was still in uniform after her shift when she returned on Sept. 6 to the South Side Flats apartment where she lived. She told investigators she put her key in the apartment door, which was unlocked and slightly ajar, and it opened. Inside, the lights were off, and she saw a figure in the darkness that cast a large silhouette across the room.

Guyger drew her firearm, the affidavit said, “gave verbal commands that were ignored by (Jean), and then she fired two shots.”

One of them fatally hit Jean in the torso.

When Guyger called 911 and was asked where she was, she returned to the front door to see she was in the wrong unit, according to the affidavit.

Merritt and Jean’s relatives have questioned Guyger’s version of the events, although they haven’t ascertained a motive.

An affidavit for a search warrant states that Guyger and Jean encountered each other at the door to his apartment, instead of having an exchange across the room.

After the shooting, Guyger’s blood was drawn to be tested for alcohol and drugs, according to Hall. Authorities have not released results.
White Dallas police officer fired after killing neighbor

Englisher just passing through here, so excuse my directness but - does anyone believe this version one little bit??!

 

[sloane7777]

Her story is that she went into the wrong apartment, saw a silhouette, assumed it was an intruder and shot at him twice, hitting him once. She turned on the light and realized it wasn't her apartment. She then called 911 for help and to explain 18-20 times that she went into the wrong apartment, shot a man, and needed an ambulance and a supervisor.

Is there anymore to her story that would be helpful to her? Because so far all I'm seeing is that she's admitted to killing an innocent man in his home.

If her defense is going to be she made a mistake and went into the wrong apartment, I don't think that's going to fly. It's what she intentionally did after she gained entrance into the wrong apartment that she's going to have to have a reasonable explanation for.

"I was in fear for my life"? Nah---she never said that in her 6 minute 911 call.
"He came charging after me"? Nope--she never said that either.
"I was tired and made a mistake"? Sorry--we're all tired a lot of times and we don't shoot and kill people in their homes.

What's her explanation going to be? Anyone?

her only defense is : I was overworked /tired and entered the wrong Apt , and he scared me ??? that's no defense for blowing someone away !

 

[sloane7777]

I had someone break in my back door , after I had just jumped out of the shower , I heard them and got the rifle behind the bedroom door and held it on them , turned out to be the neighbors 13 year old son ....but I still wouldn't have shot unless they got aggressive or had a weapon , granted he had no business in my house , but I'm not sure I could have mentally survived knowing I had killed him! I really wonder if she cares or have her attorneys said show no emotion ??? because Ive seen no remorse on her face, and i've looked she just looks defensive !

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Guyger, a four-year veteran of the police force, told investigators that she had just ended a 15-hour shift on Thursday when she returned in uniform to the South Side Flats apartment complex. She parked on the fourth floor, instead of the third, where she lived, the affidavit said, possibly suggesting that she was confused or disoriented.
Dallas cop realized she had burst into the wrong apartment when she turned on the lights after fatally shooting her neighbor, affidavit says


One Dallas police officer, who spoke to NBC Dallas-Fort Worth on the condition of anonymity, said Guyger had just finished a 14-hour shift when she returned home and took the elevator to the wrong floor.

The source said Guyger went to what she believed was the door to her apartment, but was actually Jean's. She struggled to open the door with her key, so she set down the items she was holding to focus on getting the key to work.

As she continued to fiddle with the key, Jean allegedly swung open the door and startled her. The source said Guyger believed Jean, who was only wearing underwear, was an intruder and shot him with her service weapon.

The source said Guyger didn't realize her mistake until police and rescue units began arriving at the complex. After she realized the mistake, the source said, she became emotional and fully cooperated with officers, offering to provide blood samples.

This version of events was later taken out of the NBC article, but the original story is in an archived version.
The timeline of events in the Dallas officer-involved shooting has changed several times in 7 days

Archived version:
Dallas Officer Kills Man in Apartment She Mistook as Hers: PD

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Englisher just passing through here, so excuse my directness but - does anyone believe this version one little bit??!

Um .... no

 

[Kittybunny]

Guyger, a four-year veteran of the police force, told investigators that she had just ended a 15-hour shift on Thursday when she returned in uniform to the South Side Flats apartment complex. She parked on the fourth floor, instead of the third, where she lived, the affidavit said, possibly suggesting that she was confused or disoriented.
Dallas cop realized she had burst into the wrong apartment when she turned on the lights after fatally shooting her neighbor, affidavit says


One Dallas police officer, who spoke to NBC Dallas-Fort Worth on the condition of anonymity, said Guyger had just finished a 14-hour shift when she returned home and took the elevator to the wrong floor.

The source said Guyger went to what she believed was the door to her apartment, but was actually Jean's. She struggled to open the door with her key, so she set down the items she was holding to focus on getting the key to work.

As she continued to fiddle with the key, Jean allegedly swung open the door and startled her. The source said Guyger believed Jean, who was only wearing underwear, was an intruder and shot him with her service weapon.

The source said Guyger didn't realize her mistake until police and rescue units began arriving at the complex. After she realized the mistake, the source said, she became emotional and fully cooperated with officers, offering to provide blood samples.

This version of events was later taken out of the NBC article, but the original story is in an archived version.
The timeline of events in the Dallas officer-involved shooting has changed several times in 7 days

Archived version:
Dallas Officer Kills Man in Apartment She Mistook as Hers: PD

Wow! Well, this is a completely different story. Which is it - the door was open and she went in and shot him when she saw him; or she couldn't get the door open and HE opened it and she shot him? I have no doubt she has changed her story several times, and I'm not sure we'll ever know the truth. Now there are belongings involved, which apparently blocked her ability to see the very prominent RED carpet that would have clued her in that she was at the wrong door. Of course, if she set her belongings down, wouldn't it have been on the same red carpet? Inquiring minds want to know.

I'm still skeptical that she will be convicted...of anything. Not because she doesn't deserve to be, though!

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Wow! Well, this is a completely different story. Which is it - the door was open and she went in and shot him when she saw him; or she couldn't get the door open and HE opened it and she shot him? I have no doubt she has changed her story several times, and I'm not sure we'll ever know the truth. Now there are belongings involved, which apparently blocked her ability to see the very prominent RED carpet that would have clued her in that she was at the wrong door. Of course, if she set her belongings down, wouldn't it have been on the same red carpet? Inquiring minds want to know.

I'm still skeptical that she will be convicted...of anything. Not because she doesn't deserve to be, though!

My instincts are to begin anew with initial statements before everyone has a chance to edit. I always try to return to the scene of the crime. I found the article via wayback machine as soon as I saw what disappeared. Anytime something is scrubbed, I go searching. It’s hit and miss according to the frequency of web crawling. I have more somewhere but it’s been so long and I’ve upgraded to a newer iPad since then. I kept good notes at the time. I’ll see if I can play around later to see what I can find.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Um .... no

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The mayor of Dallas and an outspoken councilman have been in a war of words in the aftermath of the shooting death of a man by an off-duty Dallas police officer.

Finger pointing and criticism has swirled around this case since the beginning and debate over the possible charges have raged in public, in private and among city leaders.

Kingston is critical of how the city and the police department handled the shooting death of Botham Jean.

Without citing sources Kingston posted on his Facebook page Sunday, "… DPD called a judge on Friday who told them he would not sign a warrant for manslaughter... But would sign a warrant for murder." that, he claims, "… threw DPD into a tailspin... The decision was made to hand the investigation over to the Texas Rangers, who DPD says told them to stop seeking any warrant."

Kingston concluded by saying he was "… hearing that the Rangers don't want the case and aren't working it - leaving precisely no one in charge."

Frustrated by Kingston's posts, Mayor Mike Rawlings responded Monday morning. See more...

Dallas mayor, councilman feud over handling of Botham Jean shooting