GUILTY TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #8

[imstilla.grandma]

Before heading back home to St. Lucia following the murder conviction and 10-year prison sentencing of former Dallas Police officer Amber Guyger, they made one final call for changes within the Dallas Police Department to reduce the use of deadly force by officers.
*broadcast:
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The Jean family was surrounded by other families carrying signs with the names of loved ones who died from Dallas Police shootings or while being subdued.

The group Mothers Against Police Brutality led the call for reforms in the wake of the shooting death of Jean at the hands of Guyger.

The group gathered at a Dallas church to call for not only a justice department investigation but also the reopening of any cases involving questionable police shootings over the last 15 years.

They also want officers exposed during Guyger’s trial of posting or sending any racist or violent messages anywhere to be fired.

Among the other issues, the group wants officers involved in shootings taken off the streets immediately and they would like to see a review of the legal protections officers receive by police groups.

“We need to seek meaningful change,” said Allison Jean, Botham Jean’s mother. “W”e need to seek investigations and we need to seek outcomes from these investigations. Talk with no action means nothing.”
Botham Jean's Family Wants Justice Department To Investigate Dallas Police Department

 

[sloane7777]

THIS: You wrote:
IT is a legal issue and legal US law trumps natural law , so yes it was a huge mistake on a judge that should know that !!!
I was trying to say that just because something is US law does not mean it is necessarily just/proper. Because, to my understanding, you said the Judge needed to conform to US law (which I don't think she broke any). My point was that the laws of man/government are often flawed. Like the 3 strikes laws. It is the law but does it violate Natural Law?

I agree with what you are saying except for the BBM part : I think she did break the law ( see below ) I think the Judge could have cost her position with that being said this is Texas so who knows if anyone will complain here but the Freedom from Religion Org. has already filed a complaint with the Texas State Commission on Judicial Conduct

1. separation of church and state | Wex | US Law | LII ...
   https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/separation_of_church_and_state
   In discussing the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, Justice Black said that the clause erected a "wall of separation between church and state." He explained that this means, among other things, that the government cannot participate in the affairs of a religious group, set up a church, aid or prefer one religion over another, or aid or prefer religion over nonreligion.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

No you are right I don't agree with 3 strikes At all for shoplifting but it is in place, so what can we do ?

Hi Sloane!

Is it really though?

I dont agree with it either unless it pretains to serious repeat felony offenders.

Then this does protect society from those who shouldn't be allowed to remain free after the third one.

I thought the three strike law has had changes in it since first enacted iirc when Mark Klass spoke to CA lawmakers why it was necessary, and iirc the first three strike law was in the early 90s?

I thought I had read, now the defendant would have to already have two felonies on their record before being eligible when committing the third felony. Shoplifting is a misdemeanor. Just stealing a slice of pizza without a weapon when doing so no longer constitutes a felony imo.I guess it could possiblly rise to felony charges if the offender is an habitual offender now, but I have my doubts.

Iirc it first started in CA, and this is the same state who is letting thousands of rapists, and pedophile predators back on the streets. So those are serious felonies with many being released were/are repeat felony offenders.

So that is one of the reasons why I believe the same three strike law first enacted in the 90s has been changed now, and applies to all states.

Also iirc, Mark has also talked about how it's changed from when he first helped to create the law because Richard Allen Davis was a repeat felony offender when he kidnapped, raped, and murdered Pauli, his beautiful little daughter.

Jmhoo

 

[Seattle1]

I agree with what you are saying except for the BBM part : I think she did break the law ( see below ) I think the Judge could have cost her position with that being said this is Texas so who knows if anyone will complain here but the Freedom from Religion Org. has already filed a complaint with the Texas State Commission on Judicial Conduct

1. separation of church and state | Wex | US Law | LII ...
   https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/separation_of_church_and_state
   In discussing the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, Justice Black said that the clause erected a "wall of separation between church and state." He explained that this means, among other things, that the government cannot participate in the affairs of a religious group, set up a church, aid or prefer one religion over another, or aid or prefer religion over nonreligion.

Seems to me most (including Freedom from Religion org) missing a very important fact on how this actually went down:

Guyger’s defense attorneys gave more context to the moment in a Thursday interview.

“The judge said you got to forgive yourself first and then they talked,” defense attorney Toby Shook said. “Amber said ‘I don’t have my Bible.’ And she said, 'I'll be right back.'” bbm

That’s when Judge Kemp left the court, went to her chambers and returned with her personal Bible to give to Guyger.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Similar activism call out: Dated 9/18/18

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Activists Call On DA To Charge Former Dallas Officer Who Shot Man In His Apartment With Murder

 

[turaj]

The judge did not pronounce the sentence. So....????

i give up you just don't get it and want to turn it into something else.

 

[sloane7777]

Hi Sloane!

Is it really though?

I dont agree with it either unless it pretains to serious repeat felony offenders.

Then this does protect society from those who shouldn't be allowed to remain free after the third one.

I thought the three strike law has had changes in it since first enacted iirc when Mark Klass spoke to CA lawmakers why it was necessary, and iirc the first three strike law was in the early 90s?

I thought I had read, now the defendant would have to already have two felonies on their record before being eligible when committing the third felony. Shoplifting is a misdemeanor. Just stealing a slice of pizza without a weapon when doing so no longer constitutes a felony imo.I guess it could possiblly rise to felony charges if the offender is an habitual offender now, but I have my doubts.

Iirc it first started in CA, and this is the same state who is letting thousands of rapists, and pedophile predators back on the streets. So those are serious felonies with many being released were/are repeat felony offenders.

So that is one of the reasons why I believe the same three strike law first enacted in the 90s has been changed now, and applies to all states.

Also iirc, Mark has also talked about how it's changed from when he first helped to create the law because Richard Allen Davis was a repeat felony offender when he kidnapped, raped, and murdered Pauli, his beautiful little daughter.

Jmhoo

Actually I don't even know but you are right I think they struck that down awhile back I got so lost in that conversation I was just replying LOL my head is still with this Judge and this case

 

[turaj]

you are right they reported that the lawyers are preparing to file an appeal , is that something automatically done? or is it by choice here?

i thought automatic in dp case but not here...I could be wrong...Texas is different in so many ways.

 

[Hope4More]

Seems to me most (including Freedom from Religion org) missing a very important fact on how this actually went down:

Not sure how Amber telling Kemp she had a Bible, but didn't have it with her, exonerates Kemp. If anything, it makes Kemp's actions more inexplicable. Getting caught up in the moment is Amber telling Kemp she wanted to see the light but didn't own a Bible, and Kemp seizing the moment to run to get a Bible to give Amber, forthwith.

What was the necessity of producing a Bible for Amber, forthwith, in public, if Amber owned one, but just didn't have it with her?

A more proper response by Kemp, if she was singularly invested in Amber finding redemption, would have been for her to simply tell Amber she hoped Amber would make sure she had access to her (or,a) Bible in prison, and that she read it.

 

[turaj]

Freedom From Religion Foundation files complaint against judge after giving Bible to Amber Guyger

Oct 4, 2019

The Freedom from Religion Foundation filed a complaint with the Texas State Commission on Judicial Conduct on Thursday, saying it was inappropriate for Kemp to give Guyger the Bible and read a passage from it.

The foundation says government employees “may not use the power and privilege of their offices to preach their personal religious beliefs.”

[...]

Guyger’s defense attorneys gave more context to the moment in a Thursday interview.

“The judge said you got to forgive yourself first and then they talked,” defense attorney Toby Shook said. “Amber said ‘I don’t have my Bible.’ And she said, 'I'll be right back.'” bbm

That’s when Judge Kemp left the court, went to her chambers and returned with her personal Bible to give to Guyger.

“"This is your job for the next month,” Kemp told Guyger. “You read right here: John 3:16."

ETA: @Hraefn

She did not just point out John 3:16...she read it to her.

 

[BellaVita]

I agree with what you are saying except for the BBM part : I think she did break the law ( see below ) I think the Judge could have cost her position with that being said this is Texas so who knows if anyone will complain here but the Freedom from Religion Org. has already filed a complaint with the Texas State Commission on Judicial Conduct

1. separation of church and state | Wex | US Law | LII ...
   https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/separation_of_church_and_state
   In discussing the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, Justice Black said that the clause erected a "wall of separation between church and state." He explained that this means, among other things, that the government cannot participate in the affairs of a religious group, set up a church, aid or prefer one religion over another, or aid or prefer religion over nonreligion.

I understand your view. I appreciate your civil responses. They are well thought out for sure. HOWEVER, I do take issue with the notion of "Freedom FROM Religion" point of view. I don't believe the Founding Fathers of our Nation envisioned that. I lean toward "Freedom OF Religion" and its free expression. So if the Judge had offered a Quran, Torah, etc., I am good with that. I don't believe there were any laws broken here. I suppose there is something to sue for in this America the Offended culture. I just can't understand the rabid outlook of not wanting to see or hear about religion or God in any way, shape or form. Don't get it. And I don't go to church.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

"Rel to Woodman" - not sure but I think this means she is headed to Woodman, also in Gatesville. This might be the intake facility where they decide where to place her.


View attachment 207603

She no longer shows up in the Dallas County jail system, so she apparently now is in either Huntsville or Gatesville. She's not in the TDCJ system yet. I don't know why I keep checking this, I guess I am just curious where she winds up since she was a cop.

Texas Department of Criminal Justice Offender Search

 

[sloane7777]

Seems to me most (including Freedom from Religion org) missing a very important fact on how this actually went down:

Even so, no matter how it went down don't Church and State have to remain separate? a 3rd party does have the right to contest even if Amber doesn't correct ?

 

[sloane7777]

She no longer shows up in the Dallas County jail system, so she apparently now is in either Huntsville or Gatesville. She's not in the TDCJ system yet. I don't know why I keep checking this, I guess I am just curious where she winds up since she was a cop.

Texas Department of Criminal Justice Offender Search

I'm curious too!

 

[BellaVita]

Not sure how Amber telling Kemp she had a Bible, but didn't have it with her, exonerates Kemp. If anything, it makes Kemp's actions more inexplicable. Getting caught up in the moment is Amber telling Kemp she wanted to see the light but didn't own a Bible, and Kemp seizing the moment to run to get a Bible to give Amber, forthwith.

What was the necessity of producing a Bible for Amber, forthwith, in public, if Amber owned one, but just didn't have it with her?

A more proper response by Kemp, if she was singularly invested in Amber finding redemption, would have been for her to simply tell Amber she hoped Amber would make sure she had access to her (or,a) Bible in prison, and that she read it.

RESPONDING TO BBM: Oh wow, now the Judge has to be "exonerated"?

 

[BellaVita]

Even so, no matter how it went down don't Church and State have to remain separate? a 3rd party does have the right to contest even if Amber doesn't correct ?

Contest what, exactly?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

"We did not get justice and this is not fair. How many of us is it going to take? There shouldn't be another mother after us," one tearful protester said.

Protestors rallied outside the courthouse chanting, "No justice no peace," with one man saying, "Are we surprised? I'm not surprised. The system doesn't value us and it never will and I don't expect it to."

"The poor training or the poor use of what should have been training-- that should never ever happen again," Allison Jean said. "If this was applied in the way it ought to have been taught, my son would have been alive today. If Amber Guyger was trained not to shoot in the heart, my son would be standing here today."

"His privacy was violated. She intruded on him, and that was not enough, she killed him," she continued.

Ben Crump, a lawyer for Jean's family said Tuesday, "Nothing will bring Botham back, but today his family has found some measure of justice. What happened on September 6, 2018, is clear to everyone: This officer saw a black man and shot, without reason and without justification. The jury's thoughtful verdict sets a powerful precedent for future cases, telling law enforcement officers that they cannot hide behind the badge but instead will face justice for their wrongful actions."

"Our life must move on but our life must move on with change," Allison Jean said. "There's got to be a better day and that better day starts with each and every one of us. The city of Dallas needs to clean up inside. The Dallas PD has a lot of laundry to do."

Dallas County District Attorney John Creuzot encouraged the community to follow Brandt Jean's lead. "I think that that young man was speaking from his heart. I think that's an amazing act of healing and forgiveness that is rare in our society."

He continued, "Whoever's unsatisfied, I hope they can get satisfied."
Amber Guyger sentenced to 10 years in shooting that killed Botham Jean in Dallas

 

[Hope4More]

Even so, no matter how it went down don't Church and State have to remain separate? a 3rd party does have the right to contest even if Amber doesn't correct ?

Q1. Yes.
Q2. Yes.

 

[BellaVita]

This is from the Constitution:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
Judge Kemp made no law establishing religion here. Neither does our Constitution prohibit her expressing her religion. This country is like a game of telephone now. So far off the rails from what was intended.

 

[BellaVita]

i give up you just don't get it and want to turn it into something else.

Hehe means laughing. It is a term used to show that you are laughing about something. Hehe is similar to haha but is a little more smug and a little less popular.
Hehe.