TX - Gilbert Flores, 41, killed by LE on video, San Antonio, 28 Aug 2015

[bluesneakers]

I don't see a knife - and I know that the emperor did not have new clothes. Surely no one is to old/young to know that fairy tale.

Sheriff Pamerleau has already told us one fairytale.

 

[i.b.nora]

This is interesting...

“In audio published Wednesday by the online archive service Broadcastify, sheriff's dispatchers said that Flores had a knife in his hand during the encounter and was "threatening suicide by cops."”

So, now, what a dispatcher says (who isn’t at the scene and can’t see) is evidence that Flores had a knife in his hand when he was killed? Oh my.

 

[seattlechiquita]

am I really going to "enjoy" seeing how the PD gets out of this one. I am, however, relieved that the woman inside and her child are ok.

 

[Woodland]

This is interesting...

“In audio published Wednesday by the online archive service Broadcastify, sheriff's dispatchers said that Flores had a knife in his hand during the encounter and was "threatening suicide by cops."”

So, now, what a dispatcher says (who isn’t at the scene and can’t see) is evidence that Flores had a knife in his hand when he was killed? Oh my.

Good point - one can describe whatever one wants over a radio - doesn't have to be true. Wonder how that compares to the other 10 shooting by the same police force recently.

iPhones - best idea ever.

 

[katydid23]

I don't see a knife - and I know that the emperor did not have new clothes. Surely no one is to old/young to know that fairy tale.

There is a video taken from closer vantage point. That one shows the knife. I am sure they will release it at some point. It is probably on the dashcam.

 

[octobermoon]

There is a video taken from closer vantage point. That one shows the knife. I am sure they will release it at some point. It is probably on the dashcam.

The DA (I think that is who it was) said on CNN the video came from a citizen not police source. I'll try and find a link or maybe someone else here heard the interview this afternoon too.


ETA The second video not the one that was already shown online.

 

[i.b.nora]

There is a video taken from closer vantage point. That one shows the knife. I am sure they will release it at some point. It is probably on the dashcam.

I heard it stated the other day that there was no dash cam and there were no body cams.

 

[i.b.nora]

The DA (I think that is who it was) said on CNN the video came from a citizen not police source. I'll try and find a link or maybe someone else here heard the interview this afternoon too.


ETA The second video not the one that was already shown online.

Yes, i saw and heard that as well.

 

[octobermoon]

Yes, i saw and heard that as well.

Thank you, can't find it online yet. Did find this tho. It was DA LaHood that I saw on CNN.

Bexar County District Attorney Nicholas LaHood told CNN the second video is "a better view to make an assessment on what happened. It is a closer view and a better angle."

He also characterized the second video as "troubling," and said the FBI has joined the investigation into Flores' death.

Read more from WFMZ.com at: http://www.wfmz.com/news/videos-show-texas-deputies-shoot-man/35058946
Connect with us... Facebook/69WFMZ or @69News

 

[Woodland]

We'll see. No knife visible up to the point of shooting, yet he pulled one from his pants pocket moments before being shot. Plenty of people around to check the validity of a video showing a knife in his hand, when one is not seen in this video.

He needs to be left handed for that to work as well. Jmo.

 

[i.b.nora]

Apparently, the second video has to be sent off to FBI lab to be "enhanced". I was under the impression that the Sheriff felt that it was clearly visible.

 

[Woodland]

The sheriff might be under extreme pressure from within to make this go away. There was a knife or there was not - that needs to be demonstrated not sold. Jmo.

 

[Brightbird]

I'd really like to see that other video because apparently both officers fired their gun. It seems quite plausible to me that both officers were reacting to something the public video doesn't show. I'm trying to think of other reasons and I've come up with a) one fired and the other reacted with a kind of reflex, would think they're trained against that though, or b) both officers had really poor judgement at the same time, or c) both officers enjoy shooting people. The video doesn't look good, but I'm on the fence.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Color me confused.

Okay say there was in fact a knife in his hand. So the officers had to shoot him dead from a safe distance because...

Holding a gun on someone with a weapon and yelling "drop it" is just something from TV and not real life?

:waitasec:

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Maybe i missed it since I couldn't figure out how to enlarge the video, but I didn't see anyone trying to revive the victim.

Snipped for focus.

I know this was posted before the "he had a knife in his hand" explanation.

Still. If he had a knife in his hand, and the officers armed with guns and out of knife attack range (as far as I can tell), nonetheless felt so threatened that they were compelled to shoot him, one would think that after the shots they would have kept their weapons trained on him until they ascertained that he, as a threat, had been neutralized.

Maybe I've just watched too much TV, IDK.

PS. Just jumping off from the post. Not directed at you, Sweetgrits.

 

[sonjay]

Snipped for focus.

I know this was posted before the "he had a knife in his hand" explanation.

Still. If he had a knife in his hand, and the officers armed with guns and out of knife attack range (as far as I can tell), nonetheless felt so threatened that they were compelled to shoot him, one would think that after the shots they would have kept their weapons trained on him until they ascertained that he, as a threat, had been neutralized.

Maybe I've just watched too much TV, IDK.

PS. Just jumping off from the post. Not directed at you, Sweetgrits.

BBM. Google the Tueller Drill and the 21-foot rule. Looks to me like he was within the danger zone, if he did indeed have a knife.

 

[sonjay]

Color me confused.

Okay say there was in fact a knife in his hand. So the officers had to shoot him dead from a safe distance because...

Holding a gun on someone with a weapon and yelling "drop it" is just something from TV and not real life?

:waitasec:

Correct. In real life, that can get you killed. TV is not real life.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

BBM. Google the Tueller Drill and the 21-foot rule. Looks to me like he was within the danger zone, if he did indeed have a knife.

Thanks, I did, found this from policemag.com. Interesting. BBM

Tueller has said in video interviews that he never designed nor presented his firearms training drill as an organized, outlined, and implemented research project involving the applied sciences of psychophysiology, physics, and related human factors. No forensic testing, examination, reconciliation of data, or scientific oversight of a research model was ever conducted.

***

Actually, there are no forensically proven facts that I am aware of that specifically verify or conclusively establish that a suspect armed with an edged weapon will more likely than not be able to seriously injure or kill an officer armed with a sidearm on all occasions and circumstances. The truth is that the 21-Foot Rule should not be considered to be an absolute rule at all because there are too many variables involved at this point to call it a "rule." Let's discuss them.

http://www.policemag.com/channel/weapons/articles/2014/09/revisiting-the-21-foot-rule.aspx

O/T cute doggie by the way.

 

[al66pine]

Sheriff Pamerleau has already told us one fairytale.

The fairy tale being??? A link pls w vid of Sheriff P telling this 'fairytale'? Or a transcript of interview w same, pls?

Thx in adv.

 

[sonjay]

Thanks, I did, found this from policemag.com. Interesting. BBM



http://www.policemag.com/channel/weapons/articles/2014/09/revisiting-the-21-foot-rule.aspx

O/T cute doggie by the way.

Did you notice these parts of the article?

When an officer experiences a threat, it takes on average .58 seconds to experience the threat and determine if it is real. It then takes on average .56 to 1.0 seconds to make a response decision.
...
Once the average officer gets on target, it takes him or her .56 seconds to make a decision to commence shooting. However, it then takes that same officer .25 to .31/100ths of a second per trigger pull to fire. As the deadly force scenario rapidly evolves, it takes that same officer on average .5 to .6 seconds to realize that the threat has passed and to stop shooting.
...
It is my opinion that Lt. John Tueller did us all a tremendous service in at least starting a discussion and educating us about action vs. reaction and perception-reaction lag. This has certainly saved many lives within our ranks.

There's been tons of discussion over the years in the LE community about the Tueller Drill and the 21-foot rule. While the rule itself is not exactly correct 100% of the time, the principle of the rule is valid: A knife-wielding suspect can cover a surprising distance in an exceedingly short period of time.

In the video of this shooting, it appeared that the guy was pretty close to the officers. If indeed he had a knife, they were exactly right to know that he could be on either of them in about a second and a half or so. That kind of danger is not something one can ignore if one is standing there a few feet from the knife-wielding person -- as opposed to sitting behind a computer screen analyzing things after the fact from the safety of one's armchair. IMO. JMO. MOO.