TX TX - Heidi Broussard, 33, Fnd Deceased, & Margo Carey, 2 weeks, Fnd Alive, Austin, 12 Dec 2019 #11

[yllek]

Yes but his list was likely provided to him by LE. She was top of the list because she was next person known to be closest to Heidi after SC.

Yes, of course. As the person often described as Heidi's best friend by Heidi herself and those in Heidi's circle..............I too would expect MF to be on the top of anybody's list of people who might provide info about Heidi that could be helpful in the investigation.

That, and the fact that MF was Heidi's last known phone contact, also makes clear why LE contacted MF before Tim Miller did, which doesn't imply that LE was "on to" MF several days before they closed in on her.

And, we know for a fact that Tim Miller wasn't on to MF when he spoke with her on the 15th because he clearly stated that he was never suspicious of MF before her arrest.

Anyway, that's why I didn't understand your "Bingo" comment. But, it doesn't matter. Hopefully, we'll learn more details about how all the pieces came together in time.

 

[yllek]

Likely not, but the ALPR in Giddings did record her license plate per the AA.

Yes, I saw that in the Affidavit. IIRC, LE was able to confirm that MF had really traveled to Austin when Heidi was giving birth to Margo using that information.

 

[missy1974]

I hear you, it is surprising in many respects. But this type of scenario, thank goodness, is rare.

Putting myself in the shoes of Heidi’s friends or family who may have watched MF gradually grow a belly... and waddle around (as MF’s lawyer described) very realistically... I think the mind just believed what it saw.

But if I were one of those friends or family members and a detective asked me, “So, tell me, did you ever see or hear MF’s baby before Dec. 12th?” Man, I can’t imagine the instantly sinking feeling that would have given me.

Thinking about this... the only friends/family of Heidi's that I think would have had a chance to see MF's fake baby would have been Shane and Heidi's mom since she was there during that time. Not judging, but Shane may have been told MF had the baby, but didn't really care about seeing a picture (because that's how some men are imo lol ) I could see Heidi's mom being curious and asking to see a picture though. I would really like to know what TB saw/heard while there after Margo was born.

MF really didn't have many friends from what I can tell. And although some of Heidi's friends knew her, and even met her back in Church camp days, those friends didn't stay in touch with her like Heidi did, probably for good reason. As far as I can tell, all of Heidi's friends became her 'friends' after the 12th, talking until the wee hours of morning, keeping in touch.... creepy and I can only imagine some of those friends are replaying those conversations wondering what they missed.

JMO

 

[Nancy19XX]

I have wondered what CG's relationship with "Luna" (but really baby Margo) was like? If MF surprised him ("don't be mad") on the 13th, and LE didn't approach him at the Target store until the 19th, that is nearly a week of being a (fake) father.

Did he actively participate in the care of the baby? Did he take paternity leave upon her arrival to bond with her? Was he excited he had become a father and send/post photos to family and friends? Most of all; I'd like to know how he was so certain that "the baby at his house" was indeed Margo based off a flyer photo?

^^^THIS!!!^^^

When was he actually at the property from the time HB went missing until she was found? (From the 13th when she allegedly gave birth? Or did he leave again at some point, knowing he potentially had a newborn at home?) I totally buy them not really being together even though she was pregnant because MF is clearly good at deceiving people. I do wonder what was going through his mind during this time of learning of "his" child being born and the truth coming out? JMO

 

[yllek]

Tim Miller spoke with MF on December 15. I suspect on the LE side they already were forming suspicions of MF and getting their surveillance, from air and ground and other things in place to carry out the 'sting' properly and legally when they did it a few days later.

You may be right; I'm sure there's plenty we still don't know about the sequence of events.

But, I don't see what you suspect happened supported by any facts available to us at this time.

I watched the Tim Miller interview again tonight. He clearly stated that LE told him they didn't have anything to go on in terms of defining a search area. I don't see why LE would lie to TM or why TM would lie about LE having told him that.

Based on the facts outlined in the Affidavit, it instead looks like LE came to focus on MF as a suspect on the 18th of December and moved very quickly on that suspicion thereafter.

 

[Optics]

But, I don't see what you suspect happened supported by any facts available to us at this time.

I watched the Tim Miller interview again tonight. He clearly stated that LE told him they didn't have anything to go on in terms of defining a search area. I don't see why LE would lie to TM or why TM would lie about LE having told him that.

umm from the police press conference after they discovered where Heidi was is where I got the info. As for Tim Miller, let's be clear he is not Law Enforcement. By law they don't tell him everything, and Thank God! because he was pulled in by MF's lies while LE was dealing with facts and actions. I think Tim Miller has been great with his Equsearch company but he hasn't always been successful either. He likely got the list of Heidi's friends from Shane's father who was the one that asked him to help. At the time he would have talked to LE telling him they didn't have a clear search area was a few days before they descended on MF. It is true. Even when they went to the house, (LE) they were being cautious because the only thing they knew earlier that day was CG telling them there was a baby at his house.

 

[Artis]

In reading the Arrest Affidavit again (and again), this is my understanding of how the parking lot video footage and the parking lot eye witness led to the arrest of MF.

1. On or before Dec 18th, LE obtains video footage of the apartment complex parking from a resident. It only shows cars driving by. One of the cars driving by on the morning of Dec. 12th was a light gray 2015 Nissan four-door.
-- MOO: that vehicle had no known relevance to LE when the footage was first obtained.

2. On Dec. 18th, an eyewitness tells investigators she saw a woman with a baby getting into the back of a light colored four-door vehicle occupied by another woman on the morning of Dec. 11th or Dec. 12th. The women had greeted each other before the doors closed and the vehicle quickly drove off.
--MOO: now LE goes back to the video footage and verifies that such a car was driven in the parking lot Dec. 12 morning, and they know that a woman friendly with (presumably) Heidi occupied the vehicle; MF rises to the top of LE's radar.

3. On Dec. 18th, LE uses a Voluntary Emergency Disclosure to start searching MF's social media activity, reviews her electronic search records, and searches her vehicle registration records (MOO: now the Nissan becomes very relevant). LE has previously been informed by Shane Carey that MF lives with CG at the Bo Jack address in Houston.

4. On Dec. 19th, the parking lot eyewitness views photos of 6 similarly-complected women and picks out MF as the occupant of the light four-door vehicle with 60 - 70% certainty. A judge signs off on a warrant granting LE authority to access MF's phone records (which ultimately show that MF was in the area of Heidi's apartment complex on the morning of Dec. 12th).

5. On Dec. 19th, LE has the Bo Jack residence under surveillance and moves on CG as he's exiting a Target store with baby supplies. CG confirms that the baby in the missing persons flyer is the baby inside his home. Baby Margo is located in a swing in the home, Heidi's body is found in the trunk of MF's car outside the home, and MF is taken into custody.

6. On Dec. 20th, MF is charged with two counts of kidnapping and one count of tampering with a corpse.

Great summary! Should be at the beginning of all new threads.

 

[Artis]

Going back to #1 LE would have ran the tags for every car they saw drive by. IMO

While I don't know, I doubt they could be read. I've seen many cases with video showing perps cars driving by but you can't see details like plates, especially if the vehicle is captured from a side view.

 

[Artis]

I think HB’s other friend who was in delivery room was suspicious. That friend spoke to investigators on 12/17. If I remember correctly she had mentioned that MF didn’t act like someone expecting and she was taken back about how she left right away without saying a word. She felt something wasn’t right. (Paraphrasing).

I remember that but not where I heard or read it. Maybe came from Carresa? Also mentioned was MF holding a pillow over her stomach. Talk about a give away but because Heidi was giving birth any direct questioning of MF didn't happen. In any other situation that might have happened.

 

[Seattle1]

I remember this. Also someone said in an earlier thread that in the moment MF got to hold the baby she did a quick selfie to some friend saying she gave birth. Anyway I think that's how it went.

I remember that account as well which I thought was significant because I thought how odd for MF to circulate a photo of a newborn that hours later would appear to be Margo's identical twin! How long before HB uploaded her newborn pics and shared -- boom!

It was during one of the youtube podcasts where it was revealed that this never happened. Seems one brother repeated what he'd allegedly heard happened at Margo's delivery and when news of the newborn baby selfie hit major networks it caused the sister to clap back the story as a misunderstanding.

In other words, I think a tale between siblings grew legs beyond their own family.

 

[Artis]

These two women were just shy a few years of being lifetime friends. I don't believe this abduction ever escalated to MF needing to control HB inside the vehicle. I believe that MF tricked or coned HB up to the very end. I don't think HB ever saw it coming. I'll also be surprised if the autopsy reports any defensive wounds. MOO

BBM

Glad you wrote that because I've meaning to bring up the discrepancy about how long they knew each other. Caressa said they met at camp, at age 11, yet the AA and a couple of other sources quote Shane as saying 10 years. I'm quite sure it was childhood, as Caressa said, because we've seen that photos of MF and Heidi in bunks at camp.

 

[Seattle1]

While I don't know, I doubt they could be read. I've seen many cases with video showing perps cars driving by but you can't see details like plates, especially if the vehicle is captured from a side view.

I completely agree here. We can't forget that the surveillance system in question is one apartment tenant's personal, home system and probably not the quality footage that we see replayed on tv. I'm pretty sure that LE worked backward to find a similar vehicle match to MF's Nissan on that footage and not surveillance that identified MF vehicle first. MOO

 

[Seattle1]

BBM

Glad you wrote that because I've meaning to bring up the discrepancy about how long they knew each other. Caressa said they met at camp, at age 11, yet the AA and a couple of other sources quote Shane as saying 10 years. I'm quite sure it was childhood, as Caressa said, because we've seen that photos of MF and Heidi in bunks at camp.

If I recall correctly, 10 years is how long Shane and Heidi had known each other. Maybe that's where Shane came up with 10 years.

 

[yllek]

umm from the police press conference after they discovered where Heidi was is where I got the info. As for Tim Miller, let's be clear he is not Law Enforcement. By law they don't tell him everything, and Thank God! because he was pulled in by MF's lies while LE was dealing with facts and actions. I think Tim Miller has been great with his Equsearch company but he hasn't always been successful either. He likely got the list of Heidi's friends from Shane's father who was the one that asked him to help. At the time he would have talked to LE telling him they didn't have a clear search area was a few days before they descended on MF. It is true. Even when they went to the house, (LE) they were being cautious because the only thing they knew earlier that day was CG telling them there was a baby at his house.

Okay @Optics. I'm not interested in an argument or promoting Tim Miller.

I am however interested in this case and have therefor watched the press conferences, read the media reports, and read the Affidavits.

There was nothing in the last LE press conference indicating how or when LE came to focus the person who had just been taken into custody, aside from a vague reference to a recent "lead".

At that press conference, LE reps stated that a baby believed (but not then confirmed) to be Margo was located alive at a home in Harris County and the body of a woman believed (but not then confirmed) to be Heidi Broussard was recovered.

During that press conference, LE confirmed that a suspect had been taken into custody for kidnapping and tampering with a corpse. LE did not even mention the name of the suspect (MF), in order to protect the integrity of the investigation.

So, I don't see how your contentions and suspicions are in any way supported by the content of that press conference.

But, if you want to point out something I missed, I'll be glad to look at it and stand corrected. No problem. If you don't want to do that, still no problem.

 

[Artis]

You are probably right. We can never discount HB's sixth sense from kicking in. The infant being present would have allowed MF the ability to control her. Just a complete nightmare...

I know. I think we all keep trying to figure out what happened and then imagine and it's too terrible to even try to go there.

If she peeled off as soon as Heidi got in the car, and Heidi was locked in, Heidi had to either panic or get mad because Margo wasn't secured. How in the hell did MF make it to the freeway? I think @UnderstandBlue said it's a little distance away (less than a mile?) and with traffic that would have given Heidi time to be flipping out. I can't see MF saying I have a surprise for you and Heidi being okay with that while she's locked in, holding Margo and driven somewhere against her will. Assume all that happens and then what? Isn't Austin a large metropolitan area and it would take some time to drive somewhere remote? By that time Heidi would have been crazy with fright and how would MF overpower her and strangle her? We know it happened but I can't see it - unless there really was another person there. If MF did drive to a remote location, what would she have done - stop the car and tell Heidi to get out and while she's incapacitated, holding Margo, MF commences to strangle her? Right then, even with Margo, Heidi would fight, wouldn't she? I'm sorry to be so graphic but know we all wonder and I can't stop thinking about it.

 

[Artis]

Sorry Momof4RN, not sure I understand?

In the interview with Tim Miller after MF's arrest..........he said that MF was the first person on the list of Heidi's friends that he called (and spoke to for about 45 minutes). Tim was under the impression that MF was Heidi's best friend.

I admire his forthcoming nature. He admitted that MF did not raise his suspicions, that Shane was really questionable to him at the time, and that he had not a single indication that MF could have anything to do with Heidi and Margo's disappearance. He was surprised by MF's arrest.

And I would like to raise the point here about those who wonder about MF being mentally ill and somehow not in what would appear to be a normal state (sick or whatever). NO! This woman has some kid of personality disorder and those are different from mental illness, which can be treated. How calculating she was, every step of the way, right up to her conversation with Tim, asking if she could call if him if she thought of anything else and her framing of Shane as the perp. She's a master manipulator and manipulated Heidi for as long as they knew each other.

 

[Artis]

Yes but his list was likely provided to him by LE. She was top of the list because she was next person known to be closest to Heidi after SC.

No, he wasn't working with LE. He was called in by Shane's dad.

 

[Artis]

I hear you, it is surprising in many respects. But this type of scenario, thank goodness, is rare.

Putting myself in the shoes of Heidi’s friends or family who may have watched MF gradually grow a belly... and waddle around (as MF’s lawyer described) very realistically... I think the mind just believed what it saw.

But if I were one of those friends or family members and a detective asked me, “So, tell me, did you ever see or hear MF’s baby before Dec. 12th?” Man, I can’t imagine the instantly sinking feeling that would have given me.

I think because she lived in Houston that nobody in Heidi's circle saw her much, if at all, until the birth or early in her fake pregnancy. However, that deal with holding the pillow and not appearing to be about to give birth (mentioned by Caressa), did mean it was noticed that something was off. With Heidi giving birth, it's the kind of thing one one would push to the back burner. Add in cognitive dissonance (she's about to have a baby - she doesn't look like she's about to give birth and is holding that pillow), the mind often plays funny tricks and settles on what it's been told, even though it knows better. That's happened with some widely televised events where visual evidence of one thing was the opposite of what people were told and still the "story" remained widely accepted. It's a fascinating psychological phenomenon and I'd bet that CG went through it.

 

[Optics]

Okay @Optics. I'm not interested in an argument or promoting Tim Miller.

I am however interested in this case and have therefor watched the press conferences, read the media reports, and read the Affidavits.

There was nothing in the last LE press conference indicating how or when LE came to focus the person who had just been taken into custody, aside from a vague reference to a recent "lead".

At that press conference, LE reps stated that a baby believed (but not then confirmed) to be Margo was located alive at a home in Harris County and the body of a woman believed (but not then confirmed) to be Heidi Broussard was recovered.

During that press conference, LE confirmed that a suspect had been taken into custody for kidnapping and tampering with a corpse. LE did not even mention the name of the suspect (MF), in order to protect the integrity of the investigation.

So, I don't see how your contentions and suspicions are in any way supported by the content of that press conference.

But, if you want to point out something I missed, I'll be glad to look at it and stand corrected. No problem. If you don't want to do that, still no problem.

I don't see what you are questioning as inaccurate in relation to my comment which was simply:
"Tim Miller spoke with MF on December 15. I suspect on the LE side they already were forming suspicions of MF and getting their surveillance, from air and ground and other things in place to carry out the 'sting' properly and legally when they did it a few days later."

To which you yllek replied the following:
You may be right; I'm sure there's plenty we still don't know about the sequence of event.
But, I don't see what you suspect happened supported by any facts available to us at this time.

As a result, you seem to ask for what I suspected to be supported by facts. The following is a link to the Press Conference LE held on Dec 20, 2019. At the 1.26 mark, Detective Brad Herrid begins an account, at 2.26 mark he says 'this week a lead was generated....'

To be clear, my original post was 1. A reply to someone wondering when Mr. Miller talked to MF. It was Dec 15. Detective Brad Herrid clearly in the PC answers my comment about "I suspect LE ...were already forming suspicions".
Which is FACT - because LE received their tip earlier that week which led to the findings on Dec. 19. In the press conference as well both the Chief of Police and Det. Herrid both stated it was their believe the body and baby were HB and Margo.

I hope this settles your misassumptions of my one very small comment. Most of us here have viewed the videos and read the warrants of arrest, the AA and a whole lot of everything as well.

 

[Trudie]

All so odd. It seems like CG would have wanted to at least feel the baby move /kick - unless he wasn't all that excited about his coming offspring. The whole living-together arrangement and shared parenthood, but no relationship baffles me.
Of course it was much safer if MF didn't get physically close to anyone with her strapped- on belly. Can't you hear her confiding in HB, " It's the weirdest thing but since I'm pregnant I just can't STAND to be touched!" That is actually a thing I believe.

iirc, CG & MF ended their intimate relationship in March, going strictly platonic/landlord/tenant. Idk but I am guessing he asked her to move & she devised the “oh oops, I’m pregnant” story upon learning HB was pregnant. Possibly the night MF/HB & 2 other gals went to dinner & HB announced her pregnancy, MF devised her scheme. If so she might have previously entertained telling CG she was pregnant in order to not move, hoping to resurrect their relationship. (According to Rachel, MF announced her pregnancy at dinner, after HB shared her news)
I consider CG found MF repulsive/revolting & the last thing he wanted was to feel her belly & wanted to avoid physical contact at all costs. To be real, MF looks nothing like she did in photos of the early days of her relationship with CG. Yeah, love is blind, but CG is a young guy, prob’ not so blind. Blindsided? Definitely. moo