TX TX-Hunt, Overnight flooding at Camp Mystic, all girls camp. Unknown number of missing. July 4, 2025

  • #421
I was a camper and later counselor at a camp in the Northeast USA in my younger years. I suspect it was not unlike a secular Camp Mystic.

These experiences were formative to me, and my heart breaks for the families who have been impacted by this terrible natural disaster.

One thing I will add to the discussion as to the location of the cabins / younger campers nearer to the riverbanks. In my experience, camp leaders need to balance a lot of risks, not just the risk of flooding.

There are high frequency/low severity risks (e.g., stomach bugs, homesickness). There are two-campers-a-summer risks (e.g., broken bones, concussion). There are every-several years risks (e.g., intruders - usually non-custodial relatives). There are also every-many-decades or never risks, like the kind of flooding that happened. The policies of the camp, the staff practices, even the layout of which campers sleep where considers ALL of these risks. It’s an Imperfect situation - balancing choices that help mitigate the stuff camps see day in and day out and those they hope never happen.

The summer I was 11 was my 3rd summer at my camp, which was all girls. It was the first summer that I was old enough to be in a cabin with all campers, no counselors. There was a nearby counselor cabin. One night, I woke to a man in my bed. There was another on the bed of my bunkmate. Naturally, I was terrified. I’ll spare the details but I was fully unharmed, and the young men were drunk, in the wrong place, and did not want or try to hurt us kids.

In the subsequent conversations with my parents about how the camp practices were designed (and later amended) to prevent this kind of stuff, we learned a lot about cabin design and camp layout.

I have no idea whether Camp Mystic actually took sufficient steps to understand and mitigate the risks of floods - but I do strongly suspect that the decisions were complicated and well considered.
 
  • #422
  • #423
I agree with this. I can think of at least two people where early reports were wrong (one who was identified as dead, but it was a false ID, and one who was reported to have been found alive, but turned out to be dead). I will try to go through and copy the neat list and make each name into a hyperlink to the source so it's both easily readable and clearly sourced this afternoon, unless someone else gets to it first.
@teeby , if you're still working on that list, there's a couple more for you to add.

Joyce-Catherine Badon, 21, (riverside cabin)
Hadley Hanna, 8, Camp Mystic


 
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  • #424
Emergency Alert Systems that work for all types of disasters in all areas seem to be the best solution. Sirens are good for floods and tornados. Even better is having a system that sends out automatic warnings on cell phones, television, radio, etc. That's what we have in our community. We get calls and texts when a severe weather event might be heading our way, or if there's an amber alert, etc. We also get the usual civil defense test alerts on tv.

The National Weather Service was designed to have experts work individually with communities to also address special circumstances like the children's camps, schools, hospitals, nursing homes, etc. I always assumed every community did this. It's just common sense.
I keep thinking that the fact that this flood came overnight and into the early a.m. (1 a.m. to 4-5 a.m.) played into the disaster- when I went to camp we went to sleep when it was dark... 9-ish unless it was some special movie night or something. So TVs, radios, phones... maybe all off after lights out?
 
  • #425
Water is a force of nature that sometimes cannot be prepared for. Showing my age as I have a few memories of my late dad spending days searching for survivors/victims. He worked for DuPont, but volunteered. It came at night and struck so quickly.
Hurricane Camille (August 1969) - Encyclopedia Virginia

Prayers to all involved.
I don't remember Camille because I was a baby, but my mother sure does. We were a bit more inland but suffered major tornado damage in the area we lived in at that time. I grew up experiencing the deluge of rain and serial spin off tornados, then experienced hurricanes as an adult, up to and including Katrina. We were without power for close to 10 days with Katrina and one before that. Thankfully, we never suffered more than very minor damage. We are actually considering a whole-house generator for the first time ever.
 
  • #426
104 confirmed dead.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...-survivors-rcna217165/rcrd84522?canonicalCard

Drone tool redux. These people make me so angry. It's not like nobody knows they're not allowed to fly these things during a crisis. I hope they find them and throw the book at them, like they did with the guy who grounded the super scooper during the California fires.

Over 67 years, 21 family members of Lyndon and Lady Bird Johnson came to Camp Mystic.
 
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  • #427
After the winter storm where we lost the power grid I put in place many measures to help in winter storms. bought butane burners,fuel, extra propane for the grill, camp coffee percolators and extra cell chargers that can also work off my power equipment. i hadn't thought about about power failures during the summer when its hot and humid. i'm rethinking that now.
haha completely off topic, but yeah, during Snovid 2021 I told my husband we needed a generator, because I could move food into the snow to keep good and dress for cold... but, 4 days without power in summer would have driven me insane. High humidity (like 98%) and over 100 Fahrenheit...no way. We now have a portable generator, it'll run the ac and some appliances - not a whole house generator. It runs on natural gas and propane and fuel - you can choose. It doesn't give you internet or cell phone service but gives me my sanity, so, it's priceless
 
  • #428
I keep thinking that the fact that this flood came overnight and into the early a.m. (1 a.m. to 4-5 a.m.) played into the disaster- when I went to camp we went to sleep when it was dark... 9-ish unless it was some special movie night or something. So TVs, radios, phones... maybe all off after lights out?
With natural disasters of this size, it usually is a chain of unfortunate events leading to it. Not having a river system siren warning system, the delay of the county/area response after the NOAA/NWS issued warnings hours earlier, being night and not only night a holiday weekend night, lack of knowledge of how fast and deadly flash flooding is, etc imo.
 
  • #429
  • #430
My guess... many people (employees) mistakenly believe the First Amendment protects them from consequences at work for what they say, especially on social media. In reality, freedom of speech protects individuals from government censorship, not from accountability in a private workplace. If an employee posts (as an example) something that violates company values, harms the company's reputation, or creates a disruptive or unsafe environment, the employer has the right to take disciplinary action, including termination. This applies even when comments are made outside of work or on personal accounts. People can say what they want, but it does not mean your job is protected from the impact of those words. IMO only
Maybe different than what the other poster was talking about, but not a private workplace. A City of Houston prior board member making absolutely grotesque, sickening remarks, and thankfully in the process of being permanently banned from the board.

 
  • #431
I was away from the computer for a while and caught up with this thread. One thing I didn't see mentioned specifically is that there is an opt-in emergency warning system called WARN Central Texas, administered by the Capital Area Council of Governments. You can create an account and sign up for automated calls, emails, or both. It's a very effective system - I left central Texas years ago, and I still get emergency calls and emails from them. I highly recommend anyone in the central Texas area subscribe to this (but don't delete your account assuming that it will stop the notifications!). My account is linked to a different county than where the camps were. I did get a flash flood warning email, but it was later in the morning.

There's another unfortunate factor that could have contributed to this. A fair number of Texans have turned off their emergency/public safety alerts on their phones because the state has had a record of using their Blue Alert system erratically, which was created to notify people of law enforcement officers having been killed or injured. Texas is a huge state, and they didn't break alerts down by area, for some reason. I remember a few times when an entire office of employees got loud screeching alerts telling us that a LEO had been assaulted in a part of Texas that was 6-7 hours from where we were. So a lot of folks just turned those alerts off, figuring they were more annoying than useful. If the emergency alerts were conveyed using that same system, there would probably be a lot of people who just didn't get them. :(

Turning mine back on now.

JMO
 
  • #432
I don't remember Camille because I was a baby, but my mother sure does. We were a bit more inland but suffered major tornado damage in the area we lived in at that time. I grew up experiencing the deluge of rain and serial spin off tornados, then experienced hurricanes as an adult, up to and including Katrina. We were without power for close to 10 days with Katrina and one before that. Thankfully, we never suffered more than very minor damage. We are actually considering a whole-house generator for the first time ever.
We actually lived in the Blue Ridge Mountains in Virginia, which is where my sweet dad spent days searching. The water just washed everything down the mountain. We had no damage, but my dad took us there after the searches died down. He wanted us to see how others had not been so lucky. I just barely remember the scene but my older siblings do.
 
  • #433
I’m no expert, but you don’t need gas from a station.
We have a whole house generator that is fueled by natural gas. It turns on automatically whenever we lose power, which is frequently, so it’s a godsend (though an expensive one).
 
  • #434
Morgan Chesky of NBC is a native of the flooding area. His mother and stepfather whose house is right on the river got out okay after his mother was woken by the flood alert at 4am. His stepfather then ran and knocked on doors and helped their neighbours escape. They all survived, but when they returned to their property after the waters receded, they found the body of a young girl. In the video, his stepfather refers to her as 'the first body', so I'm guessing they found more afterwards.

 
  • #435
Horribly sad, but I leave it up to the people of Texas to decide on their representatives.

However, I am positive that every summer the students at A&M University are looking for internships. It is a major IT University in Texas. Why not ask students to develop prototypes for warning systems, rather than wait till representatives find the money, decide who the contracts go to, etc, etc.

Best businesses in this world have been started by students. (Some even, because the project got a “C” and they were told, “it won’t work”.)

I don't think system design is the issue. The issue is paying to implementation AND maintain it. People can be so unbelievable cheap. What's the old saying, penny wise, pound foolish?
 
  • #436
When the last persons body has been found. Then you can rage. IMO.
The sad reality with flash floods is that they aren't going to be able to recover all of the bodies.
 
  • #437
Unbelievable how the flooding could have been this bad in this day in age. Usually they build dams and have other safety precautions to make sure catostraphic flooding like this never occurs. The pictures they are showing look like the area was struck by a tornado or hurricane.
There are dams, and they are actively managed. But the sheer volume of water overwhelmed them.
 
  • #438
1. propane
2. electric
3. the other use for an electric car- power appliances off the battery
(of course if you are going to be under 10 ft of water, all bets are off)
My fully charged electric car was such a lifesaver during the 2021 Texas ice storm. We had no power/water for days and it was 45 degrees in the house. Every day I went out to sit in my car, enjoy the seat warmer until I felt human again, warm up the parka I was living in, and charge my phone and laptop. The battery was barely depleted, even after a week of that type of use.

Maybe most importantly, it kept me sane and in communication with loved ones, and it was a comforting plan B. If things got worse I knew I could put my pets in there and I'd sleep in it myself if necessary (no emissions, so it's safe). I didn't have an inverter to use it for house appliances, but I seriously considered getting one after that.
 
  • #439
There are dams, and they are actively managed. But the sheer volume of water overwhelmed them.
This.

I live in an area that floods in a big way on the regular. We have dams, big ones. They're not proof against flooding. If the rain falls in the catchment and the dam is already full or close to full, they have to spill it or risk the integrity of the dam. If the rain falls in an area that's downstream of the catchment, the dam won't do anything at all.

Dams are more about creating water reservoirs than preventing flooding. And a event of this intensity isn't really preventable anyway.

Nature isn't tame, or tameable. When something big happens, all we can really do is try to get out of its way.

MOO
 
  • #440
I don't think system design is the issue. The issue is paying to implementation AND maintain it. People can be so unbelievable cheap. What's the old saying, penny wise, pound foolish?

In my mother tongue, literally, “only when the thunder roars, will the peasant cross himself”. (But, hard to blame people for wrong decisions today, because they are in the midst of this tragedy now, and it is not over. Maybe afterwards).
 

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