TX TX-Hunt, Overnight flooding at Camp Mystic, all girls camp. Unknown number of missing. July 4, 2025

Herat · Jul 12, 2025

Friday Fan said:
Nothing horrific happened until last week. It's camp. It's supposed to be "rugged".
Probably none of the parents knew about this.

A major flood happened in 1932 and at least two buildings were destroyed.

Those two buildings were rebuilt in-situ, when the remains should have been destroyed and the dormitory cabins should have been re-built in a higher safer location.

teeby · Jul 12, 2025

Does an obituary count as proof of death? I'm assuming at this point it doesn't, because it's been long enough that it's reasonable to assume anyone who hasn't been found is likely dead, but I ask because I found an obituary for someone I haven't seen confirmed to be found.

Friday Fan · Jul 12, 2025

Herat said:
A major flood happened in 1932 and at least two buildings were destroyed.

Those two buildings were rebuilt in-situ, when the remains should have been destroyed and the dormitory cabins should have been re-built in a higher safer location.

But not recently. Most parents wouldn't know this.

BayouBelle_LA · Jul 12, 2025

Sundog said:
OP stated that Camp Mystic lost their accreditation with ACA, but no link was provided. This article is behind a paywall so I don't know if it answers that question, i.e. did Camp Mystic lose accreditation.

Also, does this article state how many camps in the area sought accreditation and how many did not? Etc. Without that information, not sure how losing or just not seeking accreditation is significant.

I agree. I don’t think they lost accreditation. You can’t lose something you don’t have, like the majority of camps. It’s not a requirement. imo

Herat · Jul 12, 2025

NPR article:

FEMA removed dozens of Camp Mystic buildings from 100-year flood map before expansion, records show

https://www.npr.org/2025/07/12/nx-s1-5465564/fema-removed-camp-mystic

vls12345 · Jul 12, 2025

Thank you, @iamshadow21 (for tracking the deceased) & @BayouBelle_LA (for tracking the missing).

Skigh · Jul 13, 2025

Melania Trump's touching tribute to Texas flood victims

The First Lady, 55, took to Instagram on Saturday to share a heartwarming message dedicated to the survivors from the Christian girls' summer camp devastated by a flash flood on July 4.

www.dailymail.co.uk

FOREVER LOVE, MYSTIC,' the First Lady wrote in a post showing the handcrafted charm bracelets.

'This bracelet will forever hold a sacred place in my heart— a quiet, shining thread to the young souls who now watch over us from heaven.

'Each charm carries the weight of their memory, the warmth of their presence, and will forever symbolize their love. Mystic is permanently bound through the joyous times spent together and the remembrance of their shared laughter,' the emotional post concluded.

iamshadow21 · Jul 13, 2025

teeby said:
Does an obituary count as proof of death? I'm assuming at this point it doesn't, because it's been long enough that it's reasonable to assume anyone who hasn't been found is likely dead, but I ask because I found an obituary for someone I haven't seen confirmed to be found.

I am using obits, but usually in combination with other sources, like msm articles and lists and Facebook posts by close friends and family of the decedent.

If you don't want to discuss the individual in the thread, then shoot me the info in a private message and I can help research and see if it's solid enough to add them to the list.

AngTxGal · Jul 13, 2025

Herat said:
A major flood happened in 1932 and at least two buildings were destroyed.

Those two buildings were rebuilt in-situ, when the remains should have been destroyed and the dormitory cabins should have been re-built in a higher safer location.

Preventing building and rebuilding long rivers in Texas is a complex matter. In order to know how to solve the issue, it has to first be understood. What this river looked like in 1932 cannot be close to what it looks like now.
Texas has over 7000 dams on its river system, only one lake in the entire state is natural. Many rivers have multiple dams. Many rivers begin at a natural spring, not Texas rainfall but from rain a slow melt that falls in New Mexico and moves through the aquifers (below ground rivers).
As the Corps of Engineers designed and constructed the dams, lakes were formed, the river below each dam becomes different, rivers move. Water in rivers which was once wild becomes ‘tamed’ by the corps of engineers and controlled by the entity that controls the release of water from each dam. That is the Texas Water Commission.
Homes in an area are flooded to create the lake behind the dam, homes below the dam are now farther from the river than they were. New dry land is now opened for building. Many parks, soccer fields, and camp grounds exist exactly in the new dry land below a dam.
Texas is 95% private property- most of the land along the rivers is privately owned.
Any dam and major land development on a river changes the patterns of water movement above and below the dam. In 1932 the Ingram Dam was built between Hunt and Kerrville.
It would be quite a study to determine the cause of a 1932 flood near Hunt, and how the Guadalupe River was before 1932, after the Ingram dam was built, and then suggestion where to build. If we simply decide floods determine where to build- and applied this rule across the state and country- many cities across the nation would no longer exist.
Most all large cities along rivers or the coast line have been flooded many times and rebuilt many times- these include Fort Worth/Dallas, El Paso, San Antonio, Austin, Houston, New Orleans, and New York City.

In preventing building along rivers people think they are finding a solution, finding a culprit, someone to blame, some kind of justice.
I would suggest people who built on their own land, and lived in those homes, and died likely made the same choices as those who built and operate camps, camping grounds, and recreation long those rivers and all the other rivers across the nation. Texas is not a special case that should be handled by what appears an obvious simple solution- prevent people from rebuilding.

If we want to seek ways to prevent loss of life- we need to look at the science used to predict the flow of the forks with given amounts of rainfall, monitor their flow, and give determine when and how to send warnings to all those along the Guadalupe River.
This is how cities handle flooding, tornadoes, and hurricane winds across the country.
It seems city officials requested assistance in funding such warning systems many times over the prior decades- and those requests were dismissed. There is your culprit- there is your blame- look at the politicians at the state level in Texas.

I for one will follow this case long after fades from public attention, as many Texas voters will do.
If all in the path of the flood had been warned, it is possible no lives would have been lost.
Can we prevent all loss of life or property near waterways? No, people drown in their own backyard pool.
What we in Texas can do is push for these changes… among others, to prevent loss of life.
- digital alerts, siren, and TV warning systems for people along rivers
- warning systems receipt tech for camp directors
- evacuation plans for any service industry- camp grounds and camps posted in public view
- waivers to parents of campers who attend camps along rivers explaining the risk
- waivers at camp grounds explaining the risk to campers
- roadways for evacuation able to handle evacuation traffic and stay above waterlines

IMO

K9Enzo · Jul 13, 2025

The narrow steep canyons also played a major role in the historic deadly flooding. They funneled that heavy rain straight into the river, causing it to rise rapidly with insane force. This is grim but some of those bodies would have been pulled apart. The devastation there is unimaginable with the smell of fuel, mud, and decay. Vehicles are twisted, tree root balls scattered, debris hung up all over. Many of those poor survivors are not even processing this fully yet. imo

iamshadow21 · Jul 13, 2025

jesse · Jul 13, 2025

Sundog said:
Out of 20,000 camps nationwide, only 2,300 are voluntarily accredited by this organization (the American Camp Association). So only 11.5% of U.S. camps are voluntarily accredited by the American Camp Association. So it is not in any way unusual for Camp Mystic or any other camp not to be accredited by this body. Nationally, 88.5% of campus are not voluntarily accredited by the ACA.

On the othe hand -

Camp Mystic, which is licensed by the state, is a member of the Camping Association for Mutual Progress, or C.A.M.P. The state association said online that its goal is to “raise health and safety standards for all camps.”

In addition -

State inspection reports for Camp Mystic obtained by KXAN investigators show the camp had just finished its annual inspection two days before the deadly flash flood. The Department of State Health Services found the camp had the required emergency plans, including written ones in case of a disaster. The state agency said youth camps are required to have those plans posted clearly in every building and reviews the plans on site during a yearly inspection.

And yet, no one can seem to say what those safety standards are. The ACA is the gold standard.

jesse · Jul 13, 2025

Herat said:
So they comply by posting pieces of paper with plans that are worthless because they are not real or tested.

Do they run regular drills? Do they evaluate the results of the drills?

If there is no cell phone reception, how do they communicate with each and every camper or staff member in an emergency, especially if the power is out because of storms? Are there backup generators?

Do they have 24/7 staff that are on some kind of immediate alert phone tree or mandatory alert system to get the proper information and are able to implement immediate action?

It can be quite easy to placate inspectors with the required charts and diagrams but one needs to have an honest assessment of life safety issues and have tested emergency procedures.

Can you imagine a small hospital being allowed to operate like this camp did?

I believe accredited camps - and honestly, probably many unaccredited ones - have someone on watch 24 hours a day to be alert for emergencies. I believe another requirement is to receive, and document receipt of, weather alerts/warnings every 12 hours, at a minimum.

I don't know if we've heard yet if Mystic had that. From what I've read, it was counselors coming back from a night off who noticed the water rising and ran to save campers.

iamshadow21 · Jul 13, 2025

BayouBelle_LA said:
MISSING
Virginia Hollis (Camp Mystic)
Cile Steward (Camp Mystic)
Ellen Getten (Camp Mystic)
Margaret Sheedy (Camp Mystic)
Jeff Ramsey
Jack Burgess
James Burgess
Tasha Ramos
Richard Dunlap
Ron Duke
Holland Zunker
Lyle Zunker
Ileana Santana
Mila Rose Santana
Penny Ferguson
Tianna 'Ty' Mabey
Bill Huston
Alyson Hardin
Josephine Hardin
Leonardo Romero Sr.
Carlos Romero
Natalia Venzor
Steve Edwards
Mark Walker
Sara Walker
Johnny Walker
Al Lorio
Harley Moeller
Gary Traugott
Pam Smith
Mike Smith
Brian Carpenter
Blake Carpenter

FOUND - @iamshadow21
Doug West 54, Kent Wattinger 36

The Lives Lost to the Texas Floods

Eight-year-old girls at sleep-away camp, families crammed into recreational vehicles, local residents traveling to or from work. These are some of the victims.

www.nytimes.com

Dan Dailey 67, Virginia Dailey 66, August Panning 50

Travis County Authorities Identify Victims of Devastating Flash Floods in Leander and Marble Falls

Travis County authorities identify victims of the recent flash floods and continue search and recovery efforts.

hoodline.com

Could you add Alvaro to the missing list? I just stumbled across him and he was new to me, he's not being covered in MSM and as far as I can tell, he has not been located. His car was found empty under a large pile of trees and debris.

https://www.facebook.com/100010316531617/posts/pfbid0irgTYjEDTenZQvPga7bTXP6nTRSgBYd6JUH2MvQM1cpqPe6SZv9xqQAJsrPc6qCbl

https://www.facebook.com/100001066204762/posts/pfbid02ZTPqApaSWrmiYhigkWvXT7pnBQwD6HrvfysAbgPFdxot6iQcuBZpgprn63xvCuZHl

~~Could you add Gary West, too? His mum Betty and his brother Doug have been found, but Gary hasn't.~~ Strike that, I assumed Gary had the same surname as his brother and mum, I see that it's actually Traugott.

Here's what we know about the flood victims from the Austin area

More than a dozen people in the Austin area were killed by floodwaters over the July Fourth weekend. Others from the area died in the flooding in Kerr County.

www.kut.org

BayouBelle_LA · Jul 13, 2025

MISSING
Virginia Hollis (Camp Mystic)
Cile Steward (Camp Mystic)
Ellen Getten (Camp Mystic)
Margaret Sheedy (Camp Mystic)
Jeff Ramsey
Jack Burgess
James Burgess
Richard Dunlap
Ron Duke
Holland Zunker
Lyle Zunker
Ileana Santana
Mila Rose Santana
Penny Ferguson
Tianna 'Ty' Mabey
Bill Huston
Alyson Hardin
Josephine Hardin
Carlos Romero
Mark Walker
Sara Walker
Johnny Walker
Al Lorio
Harley Moeller
Gary Traugott
Pam Smith
Mike Smith
Brian Carpenter
Blake Carpenter
Alvaro Sigala
Michael Phillips

sds71 · Jul 13, 2025

Kerr County, which was hit especially hard in last week’s floods, is also under a flash flood warning until 11:30 a.m. local time, the city of Kerrville announced on Facebook. Heavy rain has already begun falling in the city, according to the Kerrville Police Department.

Some victim searches halted, then resumed as central Texas braces for more flash flooding

Residents south of the San Saba River in west-central Texas have been ordered to evacuate because of surging waters.

www.nbcnews.com

Friday Fan · Jul 13, 2025

The thing with Camp Mystic sorta reminds me of Schlitterbahn. When they were on the Comal, everything was awesome, relaxing etc etc. Then, they ventured out and the owner created the world's tallest water slide in Kansas City. A boy died and then everyone found out more about Schlitterbahn. The guy who created Schlitterbahn it was a "do it yourselfer". He didn't have the credentials to build the world's tallest water slide.

So, with the recent expansion at Camp Mystic, something similar. Appeals were made to FEMA to deregulate for new construction. I'm sure the attitude was: "it's wonderful by the river", "let's add on there".

Just a MOO thought and that's what it reminds me of...

iamshadow21 · Jul 13, 2025

BayouBelle_LA said:
MISSING
Virginia Hollis (Camp Mystic)
Cile Steward (Camp Mystic)
Ellen Getten (Camp Mystic)
Margaret Sheedy (Camp Mystic)
Jeff Ramsey
Jack Burgess
James Burgess
Tasha Ramos
Richard Dunlap
Ron Duke
Holland Zunker
Lyle Zunker
Ileana Santana
Mila Rose Santana
Penny Ferguson
Tianna 'Ty' Mabey
Bill Huston
Alyson Hardin
Josephine Hardin
Leonardo Romero Sr.
Carlos Romero
Natalia Venzor
Steve Edwards
Mark Walker
Sara Walker
Johnny Walker
Al Lorio
Harley Moeller
Gary Traugott
Pam Smith
Mike Smith
Brian Carpenter
Blake Carpenter
Alvaro Sigala

There are also four names you can remove when you have the time - Leonardo, Natalia, Steve and Tasha are found.

Friday Fan · Jul 13, 2025

iamshadow21 said:
Could you add Alvaro to the missing list? I just stumbled across him and he was new to me, he's not being covered in MSM and as far as I can tell, he has not been located. His car was found empty under a large pile of trees and debris.

https://www.facebook.com/100010316531617/posts/pfbid0irgTYjEDTenZQvPga7bTXP6nTRSgBYd6JUH2MvQM1cpqPe6SZv9xqQAJsrPc6qCbl

https://www.facebook.com/100001066204762/posts/pfbid02ZTPqApaSWrmiYhigkWvXT7pnBQwD6HrvfysAbgPFdxot6iQcuBZpgprn63xvCuZHl

~~Could you add Gary West, too? His mum Betty and his brother Doug have been found, but Gary hasn't.~~ Strike that, I assumed Gary had the same surname as his brother and mum, I see that it's actually Traugott.

Here's what we know about the flood victims from the Austin area

More than a dozen people in the Austin area were killed by floodwaters over the July Fourth weekend. Others from the area died in the flooding in Kerr County.

www.kut.org

It sounds like Gary is missing from Sandy Creek in the Austin area and not the Kerrville area.

iamshadow21 · Jul 13, 2025

Friday Fan said:
It sounds like Gary is missing from the Austin area and not the Kerrville area.

Though the majority of victims and missing are in the Kerrville area, there are a handful from other areas. The Independent has a graphic.

Texas floods mapped: Here are the affected areas as death toll rises

At least 166 people are still missing in Central Texas, as the death toll climbs to 132

www.independent.co.uk

TX TX-Hunt, Overnight flooding at Camp Mystic, all girls camp. Unknown number of missing. July 4, 2025

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FEMA removed dozens of Camp Mystic buildings from 100-year flood map before expansion, records show​

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FEMA removed dozens of Camp Mystic buildings from 100-year flood map before expansion, records show