TX TX-Hunt, Overnight flooding at Camp Mystic, all girls camp. Unknown number of missing. July 4, 2025

IceIce9 · Jul 15, 2025

Sundog said:
My understanding from previous posts and MSM reports on this thread is that, ultimately, FEMA approved the expansion.

And Richard Eastman gave his life trying to save the youngest children during the flood. There is no doubt in my mind that he cared deeply about the lives of these children. He and his family are victims, too.

I agree. If he hadn’t cared about the children he wouldn’t have lost his life trying to save them. Possibly he could have survived if he tried to save himself instead of the children.

Friday Fan · Jul 15, 2025

jesse said:
Sadly, it wouldn't have really changed anything but his insurance rates.

I feel the expansion and the appeal to FEMA was a way to keep the camp going after the family incurred legal bills in excess of the value of the Camp Mystic.

Of course, he cared about the children and wanted to keep the camp going. Otherwise, he would have sold the camp to the guy who wanted to purchase it.

All parents had to sign a 1300 word liability waiver, waiving their right to sue the camp, even in cases of death, except in cases of gross negligence. I'm not very versed in these things. I kinda feel like knowingly building in a floodway and not relocating cabins that were previously flooded might be grounds, but I don't know....

There are lots of people who care. There are lots of people who "care too much" and get themselves in situations that over their heads etc.

Camp Mystic did not evacuate kids immediately when warned of 'life threatening' flood

Friday Fan · Jul 15, 2025

Feel good story:

Camp CAMP in Center Point reopens!

It didn't flood.

I'm so glad they got it cleaned up.

Last week on FB a friend spread the news that Camp CAMP needed money, manpower and machines! Well, they gotter done!

This article is not behind a paywall.

A Summer Camp Reopens in the Texas Hill Country

Barely a week after devastating floods destroyed Camp Mystic and killed at least 134, Camp CAMP, which serves disabled youth, reopened Monday, thanks to a herculean cleanup led by a volunteer army.

www.nytimes.com

Look at that river........

Arkay · Jul 16, 2025

Here is something that I just cannot grasp.

I am presently reading this book about Alexander the Great, in which this particular author is looking through the lens of mistakes he made, rather than all the victories.

Here is an excerpt from pg. 233. Remember this is taking place in the third century B.C.

I cannot fathom how, thousands of years later, in the year A.D. 2025, with all of the possible ways to share information and to send warnings, these children and counselors, plus some adults, died in just the same way as the ancients who had so little of the knowledge, communications, forecasts and inventions we have now.

IMO this is outlandish and outrageous, and many, many balls were dropped, by multiple people and agencies.

Riverbed. Asleep. Rain in the hills turning the river into torrents. Drowned children, women, animals. Plus soldiers that I didn’t include in this paragraph excerpt.

It’s impossible to me that these campers were taken just as unaware, after thousands of years of progress.

Soulmagent · Jul 16, 2025

iamshadow21 said:
One bright spot in this whole awful thing.

Charlotte Huff didn't survive, but through reading her son's Facebook, it seems her dog did and was rescued by a member of the public. Charlotte's son is now reaching out to the individual who posted pics of the dog with his own photos to try and get him back.

Please keep me updated.
If I died , I would want my dogs to carry on. I know my kids would want their poochie fam back.

LadyL · Jul 16, 2025

Friday Fan said:
1. His phone was likely wifi enabled, since they very likely don't have cell service
2. NWS alerts are simultaneously posted on twitter, (so I was able to find the alerts on twitter)

3. This is the exact alert that he would have received:

Flash Flood Warning including Ingram TX and Hunt TX until 4:15 AM CDT
Move immediately to higher ground!
Avoid walking or driving through flood waters!
View attachment 601810

To make a better decision, Mr. Eastland would have needed more info about the amount of water upstream to Camp Mystic.

The closest NOAA gauge is in Hunt, which is downstream from Camp Mystic.
This would not have done him any good.

There are upstream real time gauges operated by the Guadalupe Blanco River Authority, but they are not in communication with the NWS or local emergency management. (I think the gauges are more for water management and the GBRA's main focus a whole other story, but GBRA is not emergency management)

However, he was a member of the board and he would know how to access those gauges, but would he in that type of situation? And I don't know how easy they are to access on a phone.

As a camp director, in an emergency situation, he would not be expected to watch the gauges. (It's just that he knew how) And there are other people in Kerr County, who know how to read them!! If I know how to read them, then the mayor, county judge, VFD, city manager anyone involved in emergency management would know how to read them!! But the mayor of Kerrville was asleep.

But, Kerrville City Manager, who was jogging at 3:30 am, told NBC News that he had turned off alerts! Kerrville city manager says he had weather alerts turned off

He didn't see any concerns, so I doubt if he would have bothered to check GBRA rain gauges! Or even NOAA radar or X or anything.

Back to the GBRA gauges:
The appropriate gauge is: South Fork Ranch @ Hwy 39

Here are the current gauges:

Experience

experience.arcgis.com

The odds are the gauge showed about an inch or two of rain at 1 am.

A 1 am, the radar looked like typical flash flood, several inches of rain, which means "water on the road in low areas". Stay put. He probably should have considered moving children out low lying cabins. (But that's just MOO) The area frequently gets this type of weather, so do many parts of the country.

Here is the 1 am radar.
Red is typical thunderstorm heavy.
Rain that falls in Bandera or Gillespie Counties does not fall in Guadalupe Basin.
Bandera = Medina River
Gillespie = Llano River.
View attachment 601814
.
At some point Camp Mystic lost electricity. At this point Mr. Eastland would lose access to NWS alerts, radar, gauges and the ability to call the Hunt Volunteer Fire Department.

By 3 am, the radar is ominous. There are crimson areas in the Guadalupe basin. Also the convection system has not moved much.

View attachment 601815

Around 1 am, Mr. Eastland, should have removed children the low lying cabins MOO. That's just common "river sense". Elevation maps show some of those cabins are the same elevation as a low water crossing!! Anything in the red lines is a good ole flash flood - no - no! Pick up your stuff and go. (Been there done that)

We once stayed at a house on the Guadalupe in Kerrville. They didn't have anything in the red zone! Nada. No rec area no nothing. In the 100 year flood plain, they had a fire pit, miniature golf, horse shoes, play area and pool. The house itself is in the 500 year flood plain. (Waiting to see how it did!..A drone showed the firepit was destroyed, but didn't zero in on the main structure.)

ArcGIS Web Application

hazards-fema.maps.arcgis.com

OK...I'm going and on and on and probably don't make sense...

View attachment 601833

was Eastland there at camp? (I was thinking they would be at their own house in the closest town or city) I know he was trying to rescue girls but I thought he drove there to do that

NottaYutz · Jul 16, 2025

Friday Fan said:
All parents had to sign a 1300 word liability waiver, waiving their right to sue the camp, even in cases of death, except in cases of gross negligence. I'm not very versed in these things. I kinda feel like knowingly building in a floodway and not relocating cabins that were previously flooded might be grounds, but I don't know....

I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on television, yet MOO is that the 45-minutes to one-hour wait before beginning evacuation of the low-lying cabins coupled with the successful appeals to remove the cabins' statuses as being in a proven floodway might well result in proof of gross negligence.

I don't doubt that the Eastland family genuinely cared about each and every camper, but they dropped the ball in two big ways, and I can't see that boding well with the families of the deceased.

Soulmagent · Jul 16, 2025

Dotta said:
Unfortunately,
NATURE does NOT redraw its zones.

JMO

My uncle , and Waco go way back. He is LE, scuba trained , Baylor built . His heart is in Texas ,but his A++ is not there. For y not?

NottaYutz · Jul 16, 2025

CrimeDawg123 said:
This camp failed these girls and families. You cannot play with other peoples' lives. All property owners and managers take on the legal responsibility to get their charges to safety. Even 'thousand year' floods. If it looks like rain, you move. The property owners who are still alive who failed in this should be in jail right now IMO, and sued civilly for any money they might have left. Zero mercy.

This.

LadyL · Jul 16, 2025

Arkay said:
Here is something that I just cannot grasp.

I am presently reading this book about Alexander the Great, in which this particular author is looking through the lens of mistakes he made, rather than all the victories.

Here is an excerpt from pg. 233. Remember this is taking place in the third century B.C.

I cannot fathom how, thousands of years later, in the year A.D. 2025, with all of the possible ways to share information and to send warnings, these children and counselors, plus some adults, died in just the same way as the ancients who had so little of the knowledge, communications, forecasts and inventions we have now.
View attachment 601927 View attachment 601928

IMO this is outlandish and outrageous, and many, many balls were dropped, by multiple people and agencies.

IMO society has become apathetic about natural catastrophies. There are warning systems in place for most and they get ignored regularly. Case in point the person jogging who turned his alerts off.

I know where I live there's a risk of tornadoes regularly and instead of retreating to their storm shelter or basement, many people video the tornado. The videos are all over my timeline the next day.

NottaYutz · Jul 16, 2025

"The camp did, however, make some decisions that in retrospect appear reckless. In 2019, it began a project to build new cabins, including some in a flood-risk area. The camp also failed to move several older cabins even though they were in a floodway...

"Far from being inappropriate, now is the right time to ask questions, such as: Did camp officials follow the emergency plans with which the camp passed a state inspection two days before the flood? Why was there “little or no help” from authorities as the campers fended for themselves, wading through rising waters to higher ground? Why was an emergency alert called a CodeRED delayed for an hour after a firefighter in the area first asked for it to be sent? Why did Kerr County, which is in an area known as “Flash Flood Alley” and dotted with summer camps, including Mystic, struggle to install a flood-warning system after having considered such a project for years? Why did the state rebuff local officials when they tried? Why were so many people, at so many levels, seemingly unwilling to address the danger these children were in?"

Gift article We Should, in Fact, Politicize the Tragedy

Friday Fan · Jul 16, 2025

LadyL said:
was Eastland there at camp? (I was thinking they would be at their own house in the closest town or city) I know he was trying to rescue girls but I thought he drove there to do that

Yes, they have a residence at the camp.

Friday Fan · Jul 16, 2025

NottaYutz said:
I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on television, yet MOO is that the 45-minutes to one-hour wait before beginning evacuation of the low-lying cabins coupled with the successful appeals to remove the cabins' statuses as being in a proven floodway might well result in proof of gross negligence.

I don't doubt that the Eastland family genuinely cared about each and every camper, but they dropped the ball in two big ways, and I can't see that boding well with the families of the deceased.

The 45 - 1 hour wait to evacuate may or may not be a deal with juries. We have flash floods all the time and they are interpreted as, "don't drive" and "don't do anything stupid".

However, he should have moved those girls from the floodway ASAP. But a flash food can mean anything. We often get them with only inch of rain. That's because there are "low water crossing" everywhere. Water rushes down from dry creeks and even with an inch of rain, there will be a foot of dangerous rushing water over a low water crossing. The north and south forks of the Guadalupe are nightmares. There are bridges are "at road level" and on the north fork, the river is so windy that that they occur every 1/2 mile or so.

The campers frequently got stranded at Camp Mystic because their bridge would flood. It happens everywhere. It's part of life. So "flash flood" is synonymous, with "stranded" more than anything.

When I first moved to San Antonio, whenever it rained, I would have to find alternate routes! "Driver beware".

I remember being literally stranded at the medical center when it rained one time. Weather was fine when I went in. When I came out, I couldn't get home.

Here's a bridge on the north fork!

Screenshot Capture - 2025-07-16 - 00-31-19.webp

iamshadow21 · Jul 16, 2025

Thora_Jay · Jul 16, 2025

My heart hurts for the Mystic camp children that perished and also for their families and friends Also everyone else that perished in the flood.

IceIce9 · Jul 16, 2025

Another article worth reading:

https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/girls-as-young-as-7-were-startled-awake-by-flooding-that-devastated-their-beloved-camp-mystic-how-the-deadly-tragedy-unfolded/1794849?utm_term=cat-editorial,accudirect,weather%20news,national,us,texas,casualties,deaths,flooding,floodwaters&utm_medium=push&utm_source=pushly&utm_content=50629638&utm_campaign=pushly_manual&country_code=US&partner=push_pushly&default_language=en-US

And at Bug House cabin, counselor Laney Owens was awakened by water puddling on the floor. She ran to the camp office and notified staff the flooding was becoming dangerous – and they needed to start evacuating cabins.

That’s when Camp Mystic owner Dick Eastland and his son, Edward Eastland, one of the camp directors, told the girls at Bug House cabin to quickly grab pillows and blankets, a 12-year-old camper recounted. They would pile the group of girls into their cars and head to the recreation hall.

When 19-year-old counselors Silvana Garza Valdez and María Paula Zárate were told by other counselors flooding had engulfed part of Camp Mystic’s property, they told their campers to pack a bag with their necessities and led them to a cabin on higher ground.

Then, they wrote the girls’ names on their skin, wherever they could be visible.

At that point, the emergency alerts had become more dire: The campers needed to get to higher ground – quickly.

IceIce9 · Jul 16, 2025

Also from the above linked article:

When 19-year-old counselors Silvana Garza Valdez and María Paula Zárate were told by other counselors flooding had engulfed part of Camp Mystic’s property, they told their campers to pack a bag with their necessities and led them to a cabin on higher ground.

Then, they wrote the girls’ names on their skin, wherever they could be visible.

At that point, the emergency alerts had become more dire: The campers needed to get to higher ground – quickly.

knla · Jul 16, 2025

I was driving down this canyon in the Colorado Rockies by this little stream years ago and there were several signs alongside the road saying that if you see any rushing water to climb as far and fast as you can. I don't think a wall of water ever rushed down the Guadelupe before. No one was expecting the water to rise so fast with such force. So tragically sad that so many children and adults perished.

BayouBelle_LA · Jul 16, 2025

In his previous interview, Eastland Jr., 48, the head chef at the camp, said he and others in charge on July 4 did not expect the ferocity of the flood to come.

“It was tremendous and it was fast and we’ve never had water this high, ever,” he said. A 1939 flood had reached the floor of the dining hall at the nearly 100-year-old camp, he noted, but in this flood, “every minute was another foot.”

Eastland Jr.’s brother Edward waded through the water to rescue the girls in the Twins cabins, and his father moved toward Bubble Inn. Dick Eastland radioed that he needed help.
(..)
Eastland Jr. said the family eventually located his brother, Edward, clinging to a tree with “10 to 12” girls about 200 yards from their cabin. They had all survived.

His father was found in a black SUV with three other girls from the camp that he had been trying to rescue. No one made it. Dick Eastland died on the way to the hospital, authorities said.

MSN

teeby · Jul 16, 2025

I don't think there's any conflict at all in believing both that Dick Eastland loved the girls with all his heart and would have given his life for them, and also that he misjudged the danger and his actions put them at risk in ways that were preventable.

TX TX-Hunt, Overnight flooding at Camp Mystic, all girls camp. Unknown number of missing. July 4, 2025

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