TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #7

[Brightchaser47]

When the "police say they were seen at the Mall by numerous people", are these sightings that were reported directly to LE ( and confirmed), or questionable accounts originating from one family? As I understand it, the only witness account that's allegedly reliable, is the record store clerk. But, is that also the account where the clerk called the A home at around 1:00 a.m.? That in itself is suspicious to me.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Could the record store clerk's account have been/become part of the "it happened at the Mall" narrative (by design)?

 

[Valiant]

But past that point - was Rachel legally considered an adult, could vote, drink, sign all sorts of legal documents, or did she still had some sort of guardian?

Being married does not change the legal age to drink or vote. She may or may not have been considered emancipated (where a minor is “freed” from their parents and able to be considered an adult and able to sign documents alone).

 

[jetsfanjohn]

To my knowledge the Police haven't said anything since they commented in 2001 when they said they believe the girls left the Mall with someone they trusted and were harmed. They have narrowed the people of interest to under five. Police say they were seen at the Mall by numerous people. In DJ's notes he says he believes the disappearance to be between 3;15 and 4;30PM. My question is if the girls are buried somewhere where is your best guess as to where that would be?

Did DJ say why he felt the disappearances occurred between 3.15pm and 4.30pm ?

Not saying he is wrong, but it seems a bit late for me. When Shawna saw RA in the early afternoon at the house on Minot, did she say she saw the other girls also?

Perhaps, Rachel was only leaving to collect the other girls at that stage?

 

[beubeubeu]

Could the record store clerk's account have been/become part of the "it happened at the Mall" narrative (by design)?

Could be that older woman who allegedly spoke to clerks at the mall about the sighting and "never came forward" really saw them and was actually able to provide pretty good descripton of a car and people involved, and actually DID came forward to do exactly that but instead of talking with cops she delivered it all straight to Fran - who promised her "annonimity" via newspaper and was able to filter out anything she didn't like cops to know?

 

[Brightchaser47]

To my knowledge the Police haven't said anything since they commented in 2001 when they said they believe the girls left the Mall with someone they trusted and were harmed. They have narrowed the people of interest to under five. Police say they were seen at the Mall by numerous people. In DJ's notes he says he believes the disappearance to be between 3;15 and 4;30PM. My question is if the girls are buried somewhere where is your best guess as to where that would be?

I know the "transmission fluid barrels" idea is pretty popular, but in order for the girls to be in barrels,
1. TT would have to have taken them (dead or bound) in DA's car (trunk), to the shop (unless someone else with a vehicle was present/complicit  or he had a customer's vehicle at his home)
2. The girls would have to have been at the shop, to begin with. Since we ruled out TT being at work that day (again, unless he had the use of another vehicle), that kills that one( for me anyway).
. So, I guess, before we decide where the girls could be buried, we need to figure out how they'd get there.
(Of course, there's always the possibility they got buried right there on Minot-- that would eliminate all the above...)

 

[Brightchaser47]

Could be that older woman who allegedly spoke to clerks at the mall about the sighting and "never came forward" really saw them and was actually able to provide pretty good descripton of a car and people involved, and actually DID came forward to do exactly that but instead of talking with cops she delivered it all straight to Fran - who promised her "annonimity" via newspaper and was able to filter out anything she didn't like cops to know?

If that really happened, I don't understand why the lady wouldn't just go to LE with her story; she'd still have anonymity-- that's what tiplines are for.

 

[FW_Froggy]

I know the "transmission fluid barrels" idea is pretty popular, but in order for the girls to be in barrels,
1. TT would have to have taken them (dead or bound) in DA's car (trunk), to the shop (unless someone else with a vehicle was present/complicit  or he had a customer's vehicle at his home)
2. The girls would have to have been at the shop, to begin with. Since we ruled out TT being at work that day (again, unless he had the use of another vehicle), that kills that one( for me anyway).
. So, I guess, before we decide where the girls could be buried, we need to figure out how they'd get there.
(Of course, there's always the possibility they got buried right there on Minot-- that would eliminate all the above...)

I'd rather know where they were buried than how they got there. We don't even know how people got where today 48 years later.

 

[beubeubeu]

If that really happened, I don't understand why the lady wouldn't just go to LE with her story; she'd still have anonymity-- that's what tiplines are for.

Because it wouldn't be fair to expect that some random elderly woman would have better grasp on do's and don'ts of missing person's case than everyone around had?
Press urged her to call Fran, not cops.
And that mention of anonimity may be just one additional form of control.
Not for the woman's sake, but to lower the risk that cops will hear anything straight from that elderly woman - and that even if she will come forward with additional info, she will give it straight to Fran, and with "promised annonimity" won't find it odd that no cop will show up to interview her.

Even if girls were at the mall, they weren't seen as first page worthy news, and no tip lines or detective numbers weren't spreaded as conntact info. Fran was. Most crucial time, as people were most likely to remember anything and feel confident enough to report that, it was all under strict control of Fran and whoever she was covering for.

Could be that girls never made it to the mall and she was trying to convince everyone that they were.
But could be also that they were there, and she was doing whatever she could to filter out all relevant and genuine sightings.
Sighting from the record store, real of fake, seems to be convenient - far from locations related to them, in alleged company of someone they haven't cared about.
But if they were involved, and if sighting from elderly woman was accurate, that would mean extremely dangerous for them, and they had no control over clerks, clerks knew, clerks could report that to cops as well, they could try searching for the woman - how to prevent the disaster that could come with woman being showed some pics of creeps related to Arnold's family? Get to the woman first, ensure that she will not come forward and conntact cops - kinda exactly what they did.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I'd rather know where they were buried than how they got there. We don't even know how people got where today 48 years later.

I understand what you're saying. I was just trying to point out that they couldn't be buried anywhere (except his place), unless TT had a ride...

 

[beubeubeu]

I have trouble with counting workshops btw.
Rusty said that one burned five years before girls went missing - so they already had two then? One burned, one left, one more opened in Arlington.
Or did they opened second in FW and closed it shortly afterwards?
Cause that ad with two locations was published in 73 or spring 74th?
But TT was definitely around at least since spring 74th and he never even heard about FW location? The same one that had to be either still there or just recently closed?

 

[FW_Froggy]

I understand what you're saying. I was just trying to point out that they couldn't be buried anywhere (except his place), unless TT had a ride...

Sounds like TT had a LOT a rides. He had a ride to work. He had a ride from work. He had a ride to the Bowling Alley. He had a ride from the Bowling Alley. He had a ride to Seminary South. He had a ride from Seminary South.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Because it wouldn't be fair to expect that some random elderly woman would have better grasp on do's and don'ts of missing person's case than everyone around had?
Press urged her to call Fran, not cops.
And that mention of anonimity may be just one additional form of control.
Not for the woman's sake, but to lower the risk that cops will hear anything straight from that elderly woman - and that even if she will come forward with additional info, she will give it straight to Fran, and with "promised annonimity" won't find it odd that no cop will show up to interview her.

Even if girls were at the mall, they weren't seen as first page worthy news, and no tip lines or detective numbers weren't spreaded as conntact info. Fran was. Most crucial time, as people were most likely to remember anything and feel confident enough to report that, it was all under strict control of Fran and whoever she was covering for.

Could be that girls never made it to the mall and she was trying to convince everyone that they were.
But could be also that they were there, and she was doing whatever she could to filter out all relevant and genuine sightings.
Sighting from the record store, real of fake, seems to be convenient - far from locations related to them, in alleged company of someone they haven't cared about.
But if they were involved, and if sighting from elderly woman was accurate, that would mean extremely dangerous for them, and they had no control over clerks, clerks knew, clerks could report that to cops as well, they could try searching for the woman - how to prevent the disaster that could come with woman being showed some pics of creeps related to Arnold's family? Get to the woman first, ensure that she will not come forward and conntact cops - kinda exactly what they did.

Did the press actually encourage a potential witness to come to FA first, or are you surmising that as a possibility? Sorry if I'm misunderstanding that point.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Sounds like TT had a LOT a rides. He had a ride to work. He had a ride from work. He had a ride to the Bowling Alley. He had a ride from the Bowling Alley. He had a ride to Seminary South. He had a ride from Seminary South.

I was meaning a ride that could/would haul bodies on the 23rd...(It would seem he  was Johnny Cash that day...)

 

[Brightchaser47]

BTW, did we ever figure out who actually dropped him at the bowling alley (and where his son was  while he was bowling)?

 

[beubeubeu]

Did the press actually encourage a potential witness to come to FA first, or are you surmising that as a possibility? Sorry if I'm misunderstanding that point.

 

[Brightchaser47]

View attachment 405700

I see your point.

 

[Brightchaser47]

View attachment 405700

The problem with this "sighting" is it doesn't fit the LE theory. Unless I'm mistaken, they still maintain the girls left the Mall willingly with someone they knew-- that's hardly a kidnapping. Although I'm still trying to figure out what they're considering "several witnesses" that place them at the Mall, in the first place.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I have trouble with counting workshops btw.
Rusty said that one burned five years before girls went missing - so they already had two then? One burned, one left, one more opened in Arlington.
Or did they opened second in FW and closed it shortly afterwards?
Cause that ad with two locations was published in 73 or spring 74th?
But TT was definitely around at least since spring 74th and he never even heard about FW location? The same one that had to be either still there or just recently closed?

The Ft Worth shop had recently closed.

 

[beubeubeu]

The problem with this "sighting" is it doesn't fit the LE theory. Unless I'm mistaken, they still maintain the girls left the Mall willingly with someone they knew-- that's hardly a kidnapping. Although I'm still trying to figure out what they're considering "several witnesses" that place them at the Mall, in the first place.

Yeah, but I wasn't thinking kidnapping - family would have no reason to cover up for stranger abduction.

And even though I'm able to some of their actions possible to explain by time, stress, shock and stuff like that... everything has it's limits, and there are other cases from the time - not one has this much confusion surrounding it (at least i never heard of it).
Misreporting by media is very common, happens almost always to some degree... but here there was also a website done by family members and full of wrong facts.
For me probability points straight at it being either unusual in several ways or direct involvement from those most devoted to mud waters and cause confusion. And that's not TT nor DA.

If that was genuine sighting...
By "elderly woman" I understand woman older than 55 yo (to the very least).
I wouldn't expect such woman to see TT and describe him as a "man" (unless his appearance changed a lot since that wedding picture).
And I would expect her to report it sooner if it'd look like an abduction.
May be too many assumptions on my side, but I just always pictured that as looking like father&uncle, father&neighbor or two fathers came to pick up their daughters and forced them to get in the car in order to punish them later (or just go home while they wanted to still hang out in the mall) - so something worth noticing and remembering, but still within the range of "normal", so not setting alarm bells.