TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #7

[FW_Froggy]

But did he ever drive it? IIRC, he was present when Rachel picked up Renee. Did he walk or drive there?

I didn't know he was present when Rachel picked up Renee. DJ's notes said TM and VB were drinking whiskey But TM said that didn't happen that day. Where VB lived was also a mystery. To my knowledge No one can say where VB was living at the time of the disappearance (most thought it was with his Grandparents).

 

[beubeubeu]

However being told by RW that others were also going to the mall that day, I can well imagine lifts being offered. Again it may have been RW who suggested asking Janet and friend to ride with them as a way of keeping TM's sister onside.
So I'm not so sure they were keen to have an 11 year old tagging along, and feel it was maybe more of a rideshare offer than an offer to hang out. Taking a 9 year old would be a different thing.

Sounds likely - since nobody claimed that Rachel was the one who invited TM, sounded like Renee did, and despite of having this trip planned earlier, the offer for TM seemed to appear kinda last minute (so he wasn't prepared and had different plans already) and straight from Renee... who was close with Janet and Julie so it makes perfect sense that in absence of Terry she could offer a ride/invitation to Janet and her friend... and also for Julie to want to go so much (she may be not so eager to go if it was just Rachel).

Something I've been pondering is when was the trip organised, how was it organised, and who knew of it in advance.

It seems like a pre arranged trip, so did that give someone/ some people the chance to organise themselves in advance? Intercept the girls?

Also I would love to know at what point it became known that JM was with them, and how the other families reacted to that information.

In somewhat similar cases, so for example Girl Scouts Murders, with three girls murdered/abducted from four-bed tent (it got some decent exposure as well, and was unsolved for decades) over the years there was at least douzen of claims and stories that came from girls who were "meant to be the fourth girl" in that tent or "could be the fourth" but ended up not going at all, in different tent/unit/camp.
Hard to imagine or consider all of those being correct as likely last-minute exclusion from this horrific fate so it's good to take it with a pinch of salt.

Also we all know how details about this case look like.

At this point I just have not a damned clue where this came from, who claimed that, where it was told... so it may be completely inacurrate, faked or just a theory...
Well, anyway.

BUT there was also a claim that the next door neighbour's daughter (actually next door neighbour, the one who said that Arnold's car never left their driveway, who was preparing that party and very same one who sometime around noon spoke to Fran who offered her help) was meant to go on that trip to the mall and, changed her plans last minute and stayed home to help with the party.
In this version Rachel didn't showed up at her parent's to invite Fran, but either showed up there to pick up that girl (her and Renee's friend) or called in advance and learned that she isn't going that way.
And there it was (that sudden absence of the third girl) was the reason why Terry was asked to go.

Realistically thou, there is no way to know WHO knew about this trip in advance. Could be many people overhearing things or being informed by those who knew without them even realising that they're sharing this info (I'm picturing some casual call or chat with friend/neighbour/acquaintance and brief mention of "oh, my daughter is going to SS Monday afternoon with her friends").
It definitely sounded like TT knew but if he knew, then likely his bowling crew knew, Arnold's knew and God knows who else.

 

[beubeubeu]

But did he ever drive it? IIRC, he was present when Rachel picked up Renee. Did he walk or drive there?

Could be magic.
Nobody who was there seems to be placing him there, no mention of him that I'm aware of that came from grandma who last saw Renee outside (hard to imagine that grandma would just casually ignore and not reported immediately that there was actually also this 18yo boy with them as well).

 

[Brightchaser47]

Could be magic.
Nobody who was there seems to be placing him there, no mention of him that I'm aware of that came from grandma who last saw Renee outside (hard to imagine that grandma would just casually ignore and not reported immediately that there was actually also this 18yo boy with them as well).

I'm pretty sure it was mentioned on Gone Cold podcast. He knew all three girls. He supposedly was invited to join them, but allegedly declined, because Rachel and Renee "were being vulgar". He allegedly changed his story a few times. I know I'm not imagining this.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I've also wondered how Renee felt about CJG. He wanted to date her, but her dad said NOPE. I know she accepted a promise ring from TM, but I wonder if she ever showed more than platonic interest in CJG (who was also willing to engage in inappropriate behavior with very married Rachel).

 

[beubeubeu]

I'm pretty sure it was mentioned on Gone Cold podcast. He knew all three girls. He supposedly was invited to join them, but allegedly declined, because Rachel and Renee "were being vulgar". He allegedly changed his story a few times. I know I'm not imagining this.

And what exactly makes this Gone Cold podcast more reliable than very unreliable sources that they're vaguely mentioning as their sources?
I may be wrong, cause I can't stand the guy's voice, he sounds exactly like those faceless youtubers who're making "top ten stabbings of the month" kind of videos, but as far as I was able to tell they just went through whatever is available, and did an episode after pretty basic research, with no indication of deep dive.

 

[beubeubeu]

It cames from the same source than anyone else seem to be getting it from - those randomly published notes from Dan James that showed up years ago in facebook group that was and still is under strict control of members of same family that controls the publicity of this case from the very beginning (and that may or may not be meaningful).

Lot's of drama there, lots of family members and people who knew girls there, possibly even those who knew what happened to them also there.
On top of that it wasn't presented in a form of "hi people, those are my findings", more like "hi, look at this and start commenting, let's see what comes up".
IMO those could be even made up in order to get some reactions. Same as with Shawna allegedly claiming showing up to pick up her son and chatting with the girls in house at Minot.

 

[beubeubeu]

I've also wondered how Renee felt about CJG. He wanted to date her, but her dad said NOPE. I know she accepted a promise ring from TM, but I wonder if she ever showed more than platonic interest in CJG (who was also willing to engage in inappropriate behavior with very married Rachel).

It wasn't said WHEN that happened. They lived in same neighbourhood, it wasn't like Terry just met VB then or Renee just started to showing up at her grandma's.
Renee could vaguely consider maybe-dating VB weeks or even months prior to dating Terry and then ask her dad about it.

 

[Brightchaser47]

And what exactly makes this Gone Cold podcast more reliable than very unreliable sources that they're vaguely mentioning as their sources?
I may be wrong, cause I can't stand the guy's voice, he sounds exactly like those faceless youtubers who're making "top ten stabbings of the month" kind of videos, but as far as I was able to tell they just went through whatever is available, and did an episode after pretty basic research, with no indication of deep dive.

I think many people are aware that not everything in the podcast is 100% accurate (at least, anyone who's followed this case for awhile), but there  are interviews in that podcast that contain accurate, valuable info/insight into this case.

 

[beubeubeu]

I think many people are aware that not everything in the podcast is 100% accurate (at least, anyone who's followed this case for awhile), but there  are interviews in that podcast that contain accurate, valuable info/insight into this case.

Aren't those interviews just parts of actual interviews that they found, cut out and put between the guy's talking?

 

[Brightchaser47]

DA's MP report for her sister states that she allegedly saw her last at about 12:30 p.m., at the house on Minot. TT's story is that he put in a full day at the shop with CA. Although we know that didn't happen, this would imply he didn't see his wife after 7:30 a.m. Then when he's contacted at the bowling alley that evening (the part of his alibi that sticks) and told she's MIA (and  other families are worried), his response is that he'll come check it out after he's done bowling. Wow.
After reading posts and giving it much thought, I'd agree  both TT and Rachel were (at this point) unhappily married. TT may well have resented the attention Rachel gave/received from other guys. Outgoing, feisty Rachel may have resented a "you are my world, I want to be your world" mentality.
Having said that, did the alleged "argument" at said bowling alley the previous night involve another male or female (or both)?

 

[Brightchaser47]

The League he bowled in was from 6;30 to 8;30PM. Some say DA took him and some say ST took him. I don't think it has ever been confirmed who took him.

What sources say ST took him?

 

[tilomagnet]

Aren't those interviews just parts of actual interviews that they found, cut out and put between the guy's talking?

I wondered that as well. There are even bits of TT being interviewed (he doesnt sound like a psycho child killer in those segments to my ears btw, but what do I know...)

However it seems odd that he would conduct an interview with a most VIP in this case and then just use a few bits here and there, so I assume those come from some other podcast, but I dont know which.

 

[Brightchaser47]

To my knowledge the Police haven't said anything since they commented in 2001 when they said they believe the girls left the Mall with someone they trusted and were harmed. They have narrowed the people of interest to under five. Police say they were seen at the Mall by numerous people. In DJ's notes he says he believes the disappearance to be between 3;15 and 4;30PM. My question is if the girls are buried somewhere where is your best guess as to where that would be?

If DA' s alibi, MP report for Rachel and DJ's timeline for the disappearance are all accurate (and that's  if), then the girls either
a) met someone they knew at the Mall and left with them (and something went south), or
b) they were abducted from the mall.


I still believe DA knows something, but I'm not so sure she's directly involved. I do not rule out a jealous husband being directly involved. Having said that, no matter what angle I look at this from, there are only two possibilities that don't involve TT needing access to a vehicle (other than the Olds).
1. Girls killed/buried at Minot
2. Stranger abduction from the Mall
Any other possibility (involving TT as main character) necessitates him having a vehicle or an accomplice with one. (For the moment, I'm excluding DA as an accomplice.)

 

[T rex]

DA's MP report for her sister states that she allegedly saw her last at about 12:30 p.m., at the house on Minot. TT's story is that he put in a full day at the shop with CA. Although we know that didn't happen, this would imply he didn't see his wife after 7:30 a.m. Then when he's contacted at the bowling alley that evening (the part of his alibi that sticks) and told she's MIA (and  other families are worried), his response is that he'll come check it out after he's done bowling. Wow.
After reading posts and giving it much thought, I'd agree  both TT and Rachel were (at this point) unhappily married. TT may well have resented the attention Rachel gave/received from other guys. Outgoing, feisty Rachel may have resented a "you are my world, I want to be your world" mentality.
Having said that, did the alleged "argument" at said bowling alley the previous night involve another male or female (or both)?

The thing I don't understand is why the bowling alley wasn't called before anything else was done. You're looking for someone's wife but you don't think to check the place that the husband is at?
To me that's just common sense. You'd think it would be a possibility that Rachel could be there but apparently someone already knew that it was not a possibility.

 

[Brightchaser47]

The thing I don't understand is why the bowling alley wasn't called before anything else was done. You're looking for someone's wife but you don't think to check the place that the husband is at?
To me that's just common sense. You'd think it would be a possibility that Rachel could be there but apparently someone already knew that it was not a possibility.

Who all knew he was bowling? And how did they know? His story was that he came home from work, got a shower, and DA dropped him at the bowling alley. His work alibi doesn't check out, DA swears she didn't leave the house, and we don't have a clear answer (yet), as to how he  got to the bowling alley.

 

[Brightchaser47]

BTW, what kind of car did DA have? Could it have gone somewhere without her that day, prior to the late night trip to the Mall?

 

[T rex]

Who all knew he was bowling? And how did they know? His story was that he came home from work, got a shower, and DA dropped him at the bowling alley. His work alibi doesn't check out, DA swears she didn't leave the house, and we don't have a clear answer (yet), as to how he  got to the bowling alley.

Well I don't think he just up and went bowling on a whim. He was bowling in a league so that probably means he was scheduled to be there.
Who would know this? I'm gonna say his wife for one and if DA took him there she would definitely know and if she didn't she probably would have known anyway. I think all the A family most likely would have known where he was at. After all when they decided to find him they knew where to look but only when LE asked for the keys did they call the bowling alley.
.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Well I don't think he just up and went bowling on a whim. He was bowling in a league so that probably means he was scheduled to be there.
Who would know this? I'm gonna say his wife for one and if DA took him there she would definitely know and if she didn't she probably would have known anyway. I think all the A family most likely would have known where he was at. After all when they decided to find him they knew where to look but only when LE asked for the keys did they call the bowling alley.
.

Good points about the league bowling schedule. His statement allegedly was that he would come out to the Mall parking lot, as soon as he finished bowling. League bowling was over at 8:30 pm. He wasn't seen at the Mall parking lot till around 10:30 -11:00. So...it took him two hours to get a ride, find the keys, and get to the Mall?? Or was he waiting for ST to drop off Jr.(because TT was to have him for Christmas, and at that time, no one would be home, to babysit)?

 

[T rex]

Good points. I'd forgotten he was a league bowler. But his statement allegedly was that he would come out to the Mall parking lot, as soon as he finished bowling. He was finished bowling at 8:30 pm. He wasn't seen at the Mall parking lot till around 10:30 -11:00. So...it took him two hours to get a ride, find the keys, and get to the Mall??

I'm not sure about that because we don't really have all that accurate of a timeline. It's my understanding that LE wouldn't do anything until the mall closed.