TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #8

[sony12]

If they weren't taken at the mall it does seem like a lot of unneeded effort to go drive the car to the place the girls were going. I know people say that they were trying to stage a runaway but to be honest why bother??????

 

[beubeubeu]

I know people say that they were trying to stage a runaway but to be honest why bother??????

...and you just ruled out the likelyhood of random perp or perps.

If they weren't taken at the mall it does seem like a lot of unneeded effort

..then they were taken or attacked somewhere where they went on purpose, while on their way to the mall.

Like Army Navy parking lot, or some other store they decided to stop by, or maybe from the house at Minot, or Rachel's family workshop in Arlington, or maybe driveway or a house of someone girls wanted to take to the mall with them...

And perp or perps found that effort necessary.

 

[Valiant]

If they weren't taken at the mall it does seem like a lot of unneeded effort to go drive the car to the place the girls were going. I know people say that they were trying to stage a runaway but to be honest why bother??????

To keep people from looking for a crime scene elsewhere?

 

[beubeubeu]

I fell out the discussion long time ago and I most likely won't be able to really catch on it anytime soon but recently there is just one thing I truly wonder.

In the past I was pretty convinced that Rachel's husband is responsible.
I don't believe in that anymore (although obviously I'm relying on things that are publicly available and don't have any special insight).

I wonder: what would he do if there was no letter?

Like... seriously.
What was he doing on regular days?
What he would likely do without the letter?
Did he had some plans to visit or stop by on that morning?

I don't understand how it's even possible that something so obvious never caused me to wonder before, and I know how exhausted all letter-related rabbit holes are BUT I don't recall this scenario being discussed.

Let's say that letter was forged and mailed/delivered to keep TT busy at home, with his inlaws, with cops... and away from the crime scene that wasn't fully cleaned up yet?

Is there a chance he would walk through neighborhood and visit few houses to ask if anybody knows anything about Rachel?
He definitely had options of borrowing a car or asking someone for a lift - so theoretically perp may be worried about that.
So maybe there was some almost obvious location he could be expected to show up and ask about Rachel, or ask for help?

 

[Brightchaser47]

Let's say that letter was forged and mailed/delivered to keep TT busy at home, with his inlaws, with cops... and away from the crime scene that wasn't fully cleaned up yet?

RSBM
Very interesting theory, beubeubeu. I would just add that the same could hold true for keeping him away from a location where the girls were being held, until they could be moved (as in leaving the area).

Is there a chance he would walk through neighborhood and visit few houses to ask if anybody knows anything about Rachel?

He could've, but I've had the impression his household didn't mingle much with the neighbors, so not sure how productive that would've been.

So maybe there was some almost obvious location he could be expected to show up and ask about Rachel, or ask for help?

I think between leaving the bowling alley and arriving at the mall, he did go somewhere in particular to locate/retrieve her (and the others), but it didn't go well.

 

[beubeubeu]

RSBM
Very interesting theory, beubeubeu. I would just add that the same could hold true for keeping him away from a location where the girls were being held, until they could be moved (as in leaving the area).

And I lean more towards the theory that would be a place where he'd show up with x reason but not cause he'd expect to find them.

He could've, but I've had the impression his household didn't mingle much with the neighbors, so not sure how productive that would've been.

Yeah, Ive got same impression as well as that he wasn't much of a walker and that he'd rather drive but hard to exclude that. Not being the delight of the garden parties doesn't mean not talking much even when things are getting serious. But that's most likely something only he may know.

I think between leaving the bowling alley and arriving at the mall, he did go somewhere in particular to locate/retrieve her (and the others), but it didn't go well.

If so then he may even subconsciously say something that resulted in forging that note.

Let's say that note didn't exist yet and that he indeed checked few places, maybe haven't noticed much cause it was dark, or maybe there wasn't anything to notice where he was.
If he said something like, oh, I don't know what to do, but if they won't be back till morning, I'll go to X to borrow his car and drive around from house to house, visiting everyone we know to ask what they know.
And that may cause a reaction, like "oh no he wants to go to X", or "oh no, he definitely will show up at Y's going through first hour of that search, we have to stop him".
Stop him how?

But the only way that letter idea could appear as likely effective would be if:
a) there was no way for anyone to leave house and miss that letter... so it'd have to be pushed through the slide in the doors - but it wasn't so that's basically ruling this possibility out,
b) he had a habit of checking mail in the morning, or asking someone to check the mail in the morning - so one way or another, dealing with mail in the morning, and in got an impression that for most people it was a thing for the evening. So the person who forged the letter wouldn't be some general acquaintance, it'd be someone who lived with him, or maybe worked with him, chatted in the morning on regular basis... or very close neighbor... or the mailman, or someone close to the postman.

WOW. I mean, sorry, cause it's far from being very well thought scenario, it's very basic but wow, it's like first time that letter is actually making any sense.
Nobody made the slightest attempt of prolonging that illusion of Houston. So whoever did that, needed that illusion fast and for a rather short period of time. Maybe it really was just to stop TT from showing up somewhere.

 

[sony12]

Was the case known to the public yet before the letter showed up? If it was it easily could have been sent as a prank by someone that didn't have anything to do with the case.

 

[PGHJW]

Was the case known to the public yet before the letter showed up? If it was it easily could have been sent as a prank by someone that didn't have anything to do with the case.

Getting her signature so close to the real thing seems like an awful big effort for a prank.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Was the case known to the public yet before the letter showed up? If it was it easily could have been sent as a prank by someone that didn't have anything to do with the case.

RSBM
It's a possibility, but a rather slim one, imo, that depends on two things: actual timeline of events and a "stranger's" ability to convincingly forge Rachel's handwriting.
The letter appeared and was shown to police on the 24th, allegedly in the morning. Also on the 24th, the Olds was videotaped at SS by news media, though I don't know at what time. Rachel's husband claims there were news media at his home on the 24th-- again, don't know what time.

 

[beubeubeu]

RSBM
It's a possibility, but a rather slim one, imo, that depends on two things: actual timeline of events and a "stranger's" ability to convincingly forge Rachel's handwriting.
The letter appeared and was shown to police on the 24th, allegedly in the morning. Also on the 24th, the Olds was videotaped at SS by news media, though I don't know at what time. Rachel's husband claims there were news media at his home on the 24th-- again, don't know what time.

Excuse me but name a prankster who thinks and acts that fast having completely unexpected events happening. It'd have to be done in less than 12 hours, during the night, with no guarantee that girls won't be home before such prank will be fully set. It doesn't happen even today with people who's full income relies on stupid, awful pranks shared on yt. No way news were ready with their footage before 9am, prankster would have to act on info from family members looking for the girls.

Handwriting wouldn't have to be forged convincingly though. If they had calligraphy classes, most girls would have mostly similar handwriting. The only handwriting sample from Rachel that I ever saw was shown on her brother's guitar. Looks very similar to "Rachel's" from the letter and envelope, not as much to the handwriting in general.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Getting her signature so close to the real thing seems like an awful big effort for a prank.

If it was it easily could have been sent as a prank by someone that didn't have anything to do with the case.

RSBM
There was a phone call the evening of Jan 7 (a little over a week after the girls went missing) that lured the families to a bus station, with the claim the girls would be arriving on a bus. While family members and media waited at the station, a burglary was attempted at the home of Renee's family. Her parents had left their home guarded by friends with a shotgun, so it was only an "attempt".
The only way it makes sense to me for the letter to have been a prank is if it was for this purpose, and I think that's a bit of a stretch. More likely a would-be thief used public knowledge of the letter as an opportunity to steal. jmo

 

[LukeNazgul]

Also why did Rachel end up being the main focal point of the mystery. Was it primarily due to the letter? Could it be the letter was delivered to one of the missing girls' family to focus the investigation around that one missing girl rather than one of the other 2?

 

[Valiant]

Also why did Rachel end up being the main focal point of the mystery. Was it primarily due to the letter? Could it be the letter was delivered to one of the missing girls' family to focus the investigation around that one missing girl rather than one of the other 2?

My opinion is all the drama around her relationships. Her husband on his second marriage, her sister previously dated her husband and lived with them, the A family dynamics that sent young girls out of the house.
Could all be coincidence, but the other girls didn’t have near the drama surrounding them.

 

[beubeubeu]

Also why did Rachel end up being the main focal point of the mystery. Was it primarily due to the letter?

Partly. Letter put her in position of kinda "speaking" for all three girls.
Her family became the most vocal and involved with media. Said media at one point instructed people to contact Rachel's parents, it resulted with some calls, also reported by the press, making her family the ones who were most often speaking about the case (and with obvious reasons they were speaking more about Rachel than about Renee and Julie).
Age made her into the one who had the most suspicious connections with people, cause at 17 she knew so much more people than younger Lisa or child Julie.

My opinion is all the drama around her relationships. Her husband on his second marriage, her sister previously dated her husband and lived with them, the A family dynamics that sent young girls out of the house.
Could all be coincidence, but the other girls didn’t have near the drama surrounding them.

Oh yeah, Daily Mail made it appear like they were living together as some sort of hippie triangle in super weird way while in reality most family dynamics were sending kids out of the house fast.
Don't know if that's just me but Im under impression that their living circumstances are appearinf more scandalous with time: now much more than 40, 50 years ago.

 

[LukeNazgul]

Also if we assume the envelope is not for that letter, would it not have been a lucky find that Tommy had an envelope postmarked that day, to himself with no return address?

Also the postal worker assigned to that area that morning was not at all interviewed, if he had a letter for that household?

 

[beubeubeu]

Also the postal worker assigned to that area that morning was not at all interviewed, if he had a letter for that household?

Unfortunately, as far as we know: no, he wasn't. Not on the 24th, not later that year, not in '75, not ever (however it's unbelievable that nobody thought that it may be a good idea to question him).

 

[Brightchaser47]

Unfortunately, as far as we know: no, he wasn't. Not on the 24th, not later that year, not in '75, not ever (however it's unbelievable that nobody thought that it may be a good idea to question him).

I could be wrong, but I like to think tidbits like that are buried in those banker boxes whose contents are unknown. jmo

 

[beubeubeu]

I could be wrong, but I like to think tidbits like that are buried in those banker boxes whose contents are unknown. jmo

Yeah but wouldn't that be an odd thing to keep a secret? Residents on that whole street and several other in the area would know for sure when the mailman was making his turn.
Weren't people waiting to get their Christmas Cards from family and friends? One person per 10-15 households waiting for their piece of mail on that day and it'd be crystal clear. It's not like they learned about the disappearance much later, it was widely published in media and widely discussed. Wouldn't people even try to ask mailman on their own in the sheer hunger for some gossip?

It's a mystery to us now, and useful info kept tight should be hard to figure out to people back then. Imo.
Well unless he was questioned but said he doesn't remember how much and if any mail he delivered there on that day.
In my experience most postmans have excellent memory, that kind of job is like constant memory training, and if anything they know more not less when it comes to their neighborhood.

 

[Pancakes4Hurley]

Does anyone have any information on what areas were swept during the initial search?

Following a trail of someone using a similar technique as Bundy (coaxing the victim to a less public secondary site). Worked backwards from the plot of the homes and the mall and then searched local newspaper archives for any large ongoing construction sites in the vicinity and was able to locate this construction project at the Service Life Center (about a 10-15min drive from the Seminary South Shopping Center). This location is very close to nearby Interstate and state highways which would make for a more convenient getaway. Would be curious to know if the site was inspected during initial search or any time since the disappearance.

(to clarify I am not thinking that this case involves Bundy, but a similar MO would make the most sense given the expectation that Rachel was in someway familiar with the assailant)

 

[Pancakes4Hurley]

Does anyone have any information on what areas were swept during the initial search?

Following a trail of someone using a similar technique as Bundy (coaxing the victim to a less public secondary site). Worked backwards from the plot of the homes and the mall and then searched local newspaper archives for any large ongoing construction sites in the vicinity and was able to locate this construction project at the Service Life Center (about a 10-15min drive from the Seminary South Shopping Center). This location is very close to nearby Interstate and state highways which would make for a more convenient getaway. Would be curious to know if the site was inspected during initial search or any time since the disappearance.

(to clarify I am not thinking that this case involves Bundy, but a similar MO would make the most sense given the expectation that Rachel was in someway familiar with the assailant)

Link to newspaper archive here