TX - Kenneth Lay & Jeffrey Skilling for Enron fraud, money laundering, Houston, 2006

[Cypros]

I can't believe they have the nerve to write that obit, making him out to be a saint when he was just proved guilty of destroying so many lives.

deny, deny, deny :furious:

 

[kato]

I can't believe they have the nerve to write that obit, making him out to be a saint when he was just proved guilty of destroying so many lives.

deny, deny, deny :furious:

Agreed. I don't care what philanthropic things he did. After what he did to so many people he deserves no praise of any kind.

 

[deanws]

That obit was nothing but a bunch of lies. I guess the rest of his family is as full of as he was by reading that pack of lies they wrote. They should be ashamed of writing something like that with all of the lives they ruined by robbing so many of their life savings.

 

[newtv]

Many of our friends who worked at Enron would have preferred to see him spend time in prison. To them, his death was the easy way out.

I do understand your point-it would be nice to see him suffer for a while and live in a hole like he deserved. I dont respect this man..just dead is dead..there is no way to even enjoy a visit from family..so its more restricitve than jail..if he had received the death penalty we would be complaining that it took too long to get him injected is all.
I am glad the tax payers arent footing the bill for another white collar crime vulture.
It feels to many like he got a free pass - but he is really gonezo and can not enjoy anything ever again.
Sometimes people like him adjust to prison like scott peterson-I wish he could be executed since he enjoys himself in jail..but he will die of old age first.

I do get it and not trying to minimize or diffuse teh impact on so many good folks lives.

 

[Jules]

I do understand your point-it would be nice to see him suffer for a while and live in a hole like he deserved. I dont respect this man..just dead is dead..there is no way to even enjoy a visit from family..so its more restricitve than jail..if he had received the death penalty we would be complaining that it took too long to get him injected is all.
I am glad the tax payers arent footing the bill for another white collar crime vulture.
It feels to many like he got a free pass - but he is really gonezo and can not enjoy anything ever again.
Sometimes people like him adjust to prison like scott peterson-I wish he could be executed since he enjoys himself in jail..but he will die of old age first.

I do get it and not trying to minimize or diffuse teh impact on so many good folks lives.

I think what has made things so hard on our friends and many others is the praise he's received. It's absolutely nauseating.....

Here's a link to the article in the paper yesterday:

Ken Lay praised and defended by family and friends

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4043620.html

The man was a crook and lied and stole. He's no saint and shouldn't be portrayed as such. I don't care what good he did for Houston or others - bottom line is he stole from those very people he wanted to help. I, and many others, just can't get past that. The whole thing truly turns my stomach.

 

[nanandjim]

I think what has made things so hard on our friends and many others is the praise he's received. It's absolutely nauseating.....

Here's a link to the article in the paper yesterday:

Ken Lay praised and defended by family and friends

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4043620.html

The man was a crook and lied and stole. He's no saint and shouldn't be portrayed as such. I don't care what good he did for Houston or others - bottom line is he stole from those very people he wanted to help. I, and many others, just can't get past that. The whole thing truly turns my stomach.

I will be interested in seeing how well his family lives. I have to believe that he had lots of money and assets diverted to his kids or somewhere. I could very well be wrong, but I do not believe for one minute that his family will live like paupers.

I know that his family loved him unconditionally as we all would. However, it seems that Lay's death will be advantageous where his family is concerned.

 

[Jules]

I will be interested in seeing how well his family lives. I have to believe that he had lots of money and assets diverted to his kids or somewhere. I could very well be wrong, but I do not believe for one minute that his family will live like paupers.

I know that his family loved him unconditionally as we all would. However, it seems that Lay's death will be advantageous where his family is concerned.

Nan, I have no doubt his family will continue living the lavish lifestyle they've enjoyed while spending others' money. How they sleep at night is beyond me.

It's so hard when we have friends who lost their house and just about everything else - including their retirement.

 

[nanandjim]

Nan, I have no doubt his family will continue living the lavish lifestyle they've enjoyed while spending others' money. How they sleep at night is beyond me.

It's so hard when we have friends who lost their house and just about everything else - including their retirement.

You have seen the personal devastation. So, I know that it must be very, very hard for you to watch this family live so lavishly as if nothing has happened. I know that if I were in the Lay family, I personally would be consumed by guilt.

I do not know the entire story of Enron, the scams perpetrated and the devastation to the employees. I thought that I had read that the employees were prevented from selling their stock at a certain point. Yet, the bigwigs (such as Lay and Skilling) sold millions of shares and were able to get out. If this is true, it is absolutely enraging and disgusting.

Has the family that you know been able to bounce back? Have they gotten jobs and a new home? I surely hope so. Clark Howard always says not to put your investments in your company stock. Enron is a perfect example of why you shouldn't.

I have always told my husband to invest in other things. His company matches his investments in his 401K with their stock. Plus, he gets stock options, etc. So, we have other investments should his company ever go belly up.

 

[kato]

My sister and ex BIL had some Enron stock. My BIL had a client (he has his own plumbing company) who was a semi big wig at Enron. He lived around the corner from them. One day they noticed he had just up and moved. For some reason they decided to sell their stock. A few weeks or maybe a couple months later Enron collapsed.

 

[kato]

You have seen the personal devastation. So, I know that it must be very, very hard for you to watch this family live so lavishly as if nothing has happened. I know that I personally would be consumed by guilt.

I do not know the entire story of Enron, the scams perpetrated and the devastation to the employees. I thought that I had read that the employees were prevented from selling their stock at a certain point. Yet, the bigwigs (such as Lay and Skilling) sold millions of shares and were able to get out. If this is true, it is absolutely enraging and disgusting.

Has the family that you know been able to bounce back? Have they gotten jobs and a new home? I surely hope so. Clark Howard always says not to put your investments in your company stock. Enron is a perfect example of why you shouldn't.

I have always told my husband to invest in other things. His company matches his investments in his 401K with their stock. Plus, he gets stock options, etc. So, we have other investments should his company ever go belly up.

There was this one 80 yr. old man on NG one night. He lost EVERYTHING and now barely gets by worrying about having money to buy food and meds. He can no longer work because of age and various health probs.

I'm such a dummy. I've been at my company 9 yrs. and have yet to get in our 401k. I was told to get into the stock since it has been doing so well. Already split once this year. They said at my age I have time. But who knows how much time one has? Like my BF says, "You can't stand to have a nickel in your pocket." I say, "Well, hell I might get hit by a mack truck tomorrow." LOL That's my motto.

 

[Jules]

Has the family that you know been able to bounce back? Have they gotten jobs and a new home? I surely hope so. Clark Howard always says not to put your investments in your company stock. Enron is a perfect example of why you shouldn't.

Yes, they have moved on, but not before loosing everything. They are both working again and are in the process of buying another home. They were both in their mid-30's when it all happened, so they were young enough to start over fairly easily. However, that wasn't the case for many.

 

[Jules]

I'm such a dummy. I've been at my company 9 yrs. and have yet to get in our 401k. I was told to get into the stock since it has been doing so well. Already split once this year.

:slap: :slap:

Yes, you really should. It will come in handy later in life.

We save, but not like some do. I say, you can't take it with you when you go and I want to enjoy it. But, as I said, we do save and have our 401k and retirement investments.

 

[kato]

:slap: :slap:

Yes, you really should. It will come in handy later in life.

We save, but not like some do. I say, you can't take it with you when you go and I want to enjoy it. But, as I said, we do save and have our 401k and retirement investments.

Yup, cuz by that time there will probably be no SS to collect.

 

[nanandjim]

My sister and ex BIL had some Enron stock. My BIL had a client (he has his own plumbing company) who was a semi big wig at Enron. He lived around the corner from them. One day they noticed he had just up and moved. For some reason they decided to sell their stock. A few weeks or maybe a couple months later Enron collapsed.

Hmmmm....No, I don't believe in coincidences...This guy was given a heads up. So sad that the "regular" employees weren't afforded the same opportunity.

 

[nanandjim]

There was this one 80 yr. old man on NG one night. He lost EVERYTHING and now barely gets by worrying about having money to buy food and meds. He can no longer work because of age and various health probs.

I'm such a dummy. I've been at my company 9 yrs. and have yet to get in our 401k. I was told to get into the stock since it has been doing so well. Already split once this year. They said at my age I have time. But who knows how much time one has? Like my BF says, "You can't stand to have a nickel in your pocket." I say, "Well, hell I might get hit by a mack truck tomorrow." LOL That's my motto.

Since you can't stand to have a nickel in your pocket, you should definitely invest with the "before tax" option. This will lower your over all income, which means you will have less income tax taken out. IOW, you will either pay yourself or give it to the government. It's your choice.

The added advantage is your investments will grow tax-free. This is a big advantage. I have a great deal of money in taxed accounts. It is absolutely ridiculous the amount of tax I have to pay on these investments, especially some of my mutual funds because the fund managers decide when to sell certain stocks in the funds.

I would like to suggest that you not invest the max in your 401K, but that you also invest the max in a Roth IRA. Roth IRA's are the best deal for those that qualify for them. Unfortunately, due to income restraints, we don't...

We currently invest as much as we are allowed into his 401K. Plus, we always put the max amount allowed into an after-tax IRA.

 

[Jules]

Yup, cuz by that time there will probably be no SS to collect.

Probably right. Which makes me mad that I have to pay so much into it.....

 

[nanandjim]

Yup, cuz by that time there will probably be no SS to collect.

Plus, SS was never meant to be the sole income for retirees. It was meant to supplement their income.

You really need to do it today!!

 

[newtv]

I think what has made things so hard on our friends and many others is the praise he's received. It's absolutely nauseating.....

Here's a link to the article in the paper yesterday:

Ken Lay praised and defended by family and friends

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4043620.html

The man was a crook and lied and stole. He's no saint and shouldn't be portrayed as such. I don't care what good he did for Houston or others - bottom line is he stole from those very people he wanted to help. I, and many others, just can't get past that. The whole thing truly turns my stomach.

I agree with that Jules-its that thing we do when people die-we make them into saints..but they dont deserve it..The people writing those things are either his family or plants..they sure are not the people who are as good as left in a jail cel for all they can afford from losing so much money.
I am on your side - all the way..its the dead part that tells me who got the last word..not him..the people suffering are still alibve and loved by someone-they still have all thei emories and Lay is deadzo..

 

[kato]

Hmmmm....No, I don't believe in coincidences...This guy was given a heads up. So sad that the "regular" employees were afforded the same opportunity.

I was talking about my BIL selling his stock after that guy disappeared. But you are absolutely right that he had a heads up.

 

[kato]

If anyone cares. I just read in our paper that Ken Lay's 3 main coronary arteries were over 90% blocked and had suffered 2 earlier heart attacks. It was 1 a.m.. He had gone into the bathroom and his wife ran in there when she heard a thump. She found him unresponsive. He had vomited and had had brief seizure like activity. He had 2 coronary artery stents in place to increase blood flow. It was said he didn't complain of any pain. He had recently been experiencing upper gastrointestinal symptoms. This is from the pathologist's report in Pitkin County, CO. It's and 18 page autopsy of which only 6 pages have been released.

They said that allegations that that was not his body are ludicrous.