TX - Kenneth Lay & Jeffrey Skilling for Enron fraud, money laundering, Houston, 2006

[Jules]

I am utterly surprised that the coronary artery disease and previous heart attack was not detected before this autopsy. My husband is a top executive with his company; and it is mandatory that he (and other executives) have a complete physical every year.

I can well imagine that Ken Lay received the best of treatments due to his position in life and wealth. Something still doesn't seem right to me. :waitasec:

Perhaps his heart troubles occurred after the collapse of Enron and he chose not to seek medical treatment. Would make sense. I'm sure he was praying things would go as they have. Scum.... In my opinion, he took the easy way out - whether intentional or not. :razz:

 

[nanandjim]

Perhaps his heart troubles occurred after the collapse of Enron and he chose not to seek medical treatment...

Yeah, I guess that this could be the case. I just can't see him not having medical coverage for his wife and himself. Most educated people realize that you have to be proactive with your health these days. In any case, where was his wife or his family when this heart attack occurred? Was he alone when it happened?

 

[Wudge]

I agree that his attorneys will seek to have the conviction overturned and will most likely will succeed. I also agree some of the family's assets will be protected, as in any other bankruptcy proceeding. However, I disagree that the civil lawsuits will be any harder simply because he's deceased. Civil lawsuits take years to sort out and Lay's testimony is already out there because he was kind enough to testify in his own defense.

Estate attorneys are the world's true experts at filing delaying motions on point after point after point after point, both conceivable and inconceivable. This allows them to thoroughly milk an estate to the maximum via their own fees. That is why I say civil actions will be tougher (longer), but the end result is not in doubt. The only question is: How much of the estate will go to attorneys who are (chuckle) protecting it?

Anything that Lay gave to his wife, kids or elsewhere before 2000 is safe from civil suits. Everything he acquired after 2000 is a gut wagon for estate and civil buzzards to feast on.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Estate attorneys are the world's true experts at filing delaying motions on point after point after point after point, both conceivable and inconceivable. This allows them to thoroughly milk an estate to the maximum via their own fees. That is why I say civil actions will be tougher (longer), but the end result is not in doubt. The only question is: How much of the estate will go to attorneys who are (chuckle) protecting it?

Anything that Lay gave to his wife, kids or elsewhere before 2000 is safe from civil suits. Everything he acquired after 2000 is a gut wagon for estate and civil buzzards to feast on.

LOL He probably put assets into his dog's name! I have no doubt that they'll have enough money to live on, but being involved in civil lawsuits for the next decade will probably give his widow a heart attack too.

 

[Jules]

Yeah, I guess that this could be the case. I just can't see him not having medical coverage for his wife and himself. Most educated people realize that you have to be proactive with your health these days. In any case, where was his wife or his family when this heart attack occurred? Was he alone when it happened?

I'm sure they had medical coverage - perhaps he chose not to use it.

No, he wasn't alone. His wife was there with him.

 

[Jules]

LOL He probably put assets into his dog's name! I have no doubt that they'll have enough money to live on, but being involved in civil lawsuits for the next decade will probably give his widow a heart attack too.

We were just talking about that. One of my co-workers was telling me Lay's appraisal information was available on the appraisal district's website and now is not. Must have put the property in someone else's name. Skilling's is still there. Wonder what his dog's name is?? :waitasec:

 

[BirdieBoo]

My first thought was that he faked his death. He certainly had the (stolen) money and connections to try something like that.

Motive and opportunity, anyone?

 

[Dark Knight]

PASTOR SAYS KEN LAY WAS AT CHURCH THIS PAST SUNDAY

HOUSTON (AP) - Ken Lay's pastor says, "Apparently, his heart simply gave out." The Reverend Steve Wende of Houston's First United Methodist Church says Lay, who died yesterday at the age of 64, felt terrible about the losses Enron's employees suffered when the company collapsed in 2001, but thought that God might be able to use him in prison.

Wende says Lay looked fine when he and his wife worshiped at his church this past Sunday. Lay, whose father was a minister, spoke of his faith when he was convicted six weeks ago in a scandal that wiped out more than two (b) billion dollars in pension plans and thousands of jobs.

He told reporters then that he and his "Christian family" all "believe that God in fact is in control and indeed he does work all things for good for those who love the Lord." He added, "We love our Lord and ultimately all of these things will work for good."

Source: AP Newswire

 

[Marthatex]

Evidently Colin Powell fell ill last night in Aspen, while at a dinner with Clinton and others, was taken to the same Hospital that Lay was. Is something in the food????

http://www.cnn.com

 

[Buzz Mills]

LOL He probably put assets into his dog's name! I have no doubt that they'll have enough money to live on, but being involved in civil lawsuits for the next decade will probably give his widow a heart attack too.

On the news this morning, they said all attempts to claim money from his estate would most likely be dropped as a result of his death. Apparently there were numerous civil suits, waiting in the wings, that will just fall by the wayside now.

Farnkly I think that people that do things like this, should be stripped of everything that they own, immediately, if not sooner, and death shouldn't be an out, from the responsibility of restitution.

 

[Jules]

Farnkly I think that people that do things like this, should be stripped of everything that they own, immediately, if not sooner, and death shouldn't be an out, from the responsibility of restitution.

Agree completely.

I wonder what, if anything, Skilling will do now. He's already stated he's thought about suicide. The government was looking to seize over $130 million from him - quite a sizeable difference from the $43 million of Lay.

 

[newtv]

I'm with you. Can't help but wonder if anything was done to 'induce' this heart attack.

The really ironic thing is that many here (in Houston), including me, have said he will never spend a day serving his sentence. We were right. It will be interesting to see what an autopsy shows - if one is requested.

Living in Houston, we have many friends who lost everything when Enron fell apart. The whole thing makes me sick to my stomach and I'll never believe he wasn't in on it from the very beginning.

But jules-he is dead- it doesnt get much worse..its all over for him..he dies a scandalized man-a shame and a disgrace..a vulture. I think I would rather be in prison then dead.
Well I might not but most would chose life over death. I personally cant imagine how hard it is to be in jail and i abide by the laws to make sure i dot ever find out.

 

[newtv]

On the news this morning, they said all attempts to claim money from his estate would most likely be dropped as a result of his death. Apparently there were numerous civil suits, waiting in the wings, that will just fall by the wayside now.

Farnkly I think that people that do things like this, should be stripped of everything that they own, immediately, if not sooner, and death shouldn't be an out, from the responsibility of restitution.

actually the civil suits can still happen and likely will-just heard that today by several lawyers..the problem is he doesnt have any money to gleen from and it I dont think the wife will be responsible..she may not have anything.

 

[Opie]

After reading Dark Knight's post #64 above, I feel as though I am about to be very sick. If the man felt sooooo bad about what happened, why did he not make at least some effort to show that and do something about it? As someone else said, he probably put things into even his dog's name. Yes, I realize God has handled this by now, but I imagine that is small comfort to the people who lost so much. Yes, I know it is not my place to judge, but this just seems so wrong - kind of like the mobsters in my area who had funeral services with clergymen presiding and saying nice things about them.

 

[Jules]

But jules-he is dead- it doesnt get much worse..its all over for him..he dies a scandalized man-a shame and a disgrace..a vulture. I think I would rather be in prison then dead.
Well I might not but most would chose life over death. I personally cant imagine how hard it is to be in jail and i abide by the laws to make sure i dot ever find out.

Many of our friends who worked at Enron would have preferred to see him spend time in prison. To them, his death was the easy way out.

 

[Jules]

Here's his obit (with a few of my comments):

DR. KENNETH LEE LAY April 15, 1942 - July 5, 2006 Ken Lay was born April 15, 1942 in Tyrone, Missouri to a loving father and mother Omer and Ruth Lay. Ken spent 64 years on earth doing God's work helping others with love. We know that Ruth and Omer love having their precious son with them again. Ken's life exemplified Galatians 5:22: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Despite his meager upbringing, Ken was always generous with his time, money, love, talents and leadership. To know Ken was to love him. Many benefited from Ken's generosity (ah, that would be the employees of Enron who's money was given :furious: ) the American Heart Association, Assistance League of Houston, Brookwood Community, The Counsel for Alcohol and Drugs Houston, DIFFA, First United Methodist Church, Horatio Alger Scholarship Fund, Houston Area Women's Center, Houston Food Bank, Houston SPCA, NAACP, Open Door Church, Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation, Rice University, Salvation Army, Star of Hope, United Negro College Fund, United Way of Texas Gulf Coast, YMCA of Greater Houston, University of Houston, Aspen Institute, Aspen Camp School for the Deaf, Holocaust Museum Houston, Beta Theta Pi Fraternity, Episcopal High School, Child Advocates Inc . Ken's door was always open, whether it was to help with college funds for a child, to help a former Enron employee pay their mortgage (nice of him to give the employee THEIR own money back to pay their mortgage :banghead: ); to help young entrepreneurs make their dreams a reality, or to give a second chance when he believed in a person. Ken could not say no to anyone needing help. When asked why he always looked for the best in everyone, Ken would simply reply that it was much better than the alternative. Ken gave his time and energy to lead huge Houston events like the Economic Summit of Industrialized Nations, the Welcome Home Desert Storm, Desert Shield Troops parade, referendum campaigns to finance the new Houston baseball park and football/ rodeo stadium, as well as the new Houston basketball arena, and the Republican National Convention. Ken did everything possible to make his much-loved city a better place to live. Ken's love of Linda was unsurpassed they were to celebrate their 24th anniversary on July 10th they were truly best friends, soul mates and partners. They were always holding hands and demonstrating their incredible adoration for each other. Their relationship was truly unique and Linda considers herself the luckiest woman in the world to have those precious years with Ken. He who fears the LORD has a secure fortress, and for his children it will be a refuge.. Proverbs 14:26 Ken leaves behind five children, Robyn, Mark, David, Elizabeth and Beau, who all love him very much. He was their role model for life, business and Christian faith. They are blessed with strong memories of a father who respected each of them for their uniqueness and took the time to foster in them the desire to achieve their best. They enjoyed lively dinner conversations, festive holidays and particularly their quiet times with him. Children's children are a crown to the aged, and parents are the pride of their children. Proverbs 17:6 Twelve grandchildren remember their beloved "Papi/ Papia" (depending on which of the 12 you ask) who was never afraid to be silly to entertain one of his treasured grandchildren. He loved teaching them how to whistle, cluck, ride ponies, build snowmen in Colorado and spent precious time with them, watching college football and attending many recitals. Ken was loved and admired by his sisters, Bonnie and Sharon. They share memories of family, Ruth's fried chicken and lots of conversation and humor. While the Lay family did not have much money, they were always close and supportive of each other. Ken always had the time to listen and support his family in the best and worst of times. He made many trips to Missouri for holiday celebrations and to visit his sick and dying parents in the last of their lives. He was the Rock of Gibraltar for his parents and his sisters. Ken's first wife, Judie, continued to love and support Ken through the greatest challenges of his life and never questioned his integrity. Ken's faith supported him throughout his life and gave him the confidence to believe in people. Above all, he trusted God that He had a plan, even if it was never perfectly clear. While Ken was the son of parents who did not have the opportunity to go to college, Ken graduated Phi Beta Kappa in 1964 from the University of Missouri with a Bachelor of Arts in Economics and a Master in Economics in 1965. At the University of Missouri, Ken was a member of and served as President of Beta Theta Pi. Ken was proud of his fraternity and maintained strong contacts with his fraternity brothers through the years he found great strength in their support. Ken completed his formal education at the University of Houston, where he obtained a Ph.D. in Economics in 1970. While there, Ken achieved the additional honors of Omicron Delta Kappa, Omicron Delta Epsilon and was listed in Who's Who in American Colleges and Universities. Ken led a long and distinguished career in the public and private sector. Ken worked with Humble Oil (now Exxon Corp.) from 1965 -1968 as an economist in the Corporate Planning Department. In 1968, Ken enlisted in Officer Candidate School for the United States Navy where, from 1968 to 1971 he served as an Ensign; Lieutenant Junior Grade; Lieutenant; Special Assistant to the Navy Comptroller and Financial Analyst; Office of Assistant Secretary of the Navy, Department of the Navy, at the Pentagon. While serving with the Navy, Ken received the Navy Commendation Medal and National Defense Service Medal. Ken's legacy as a leader in energy regulation was rooted in his service with the Federal Power Commission from 1971 to 1972 where he served as a technical assistant to Commissioner and Vice Chairman of the Federal Power Commission. Ken left the FPC to serve as the Energy Deputy Under Secretary for the United States Department of Interior. In 1974, Ken left the public sector in Washington, D.C. to begin his career in the natural gas industry. Ken joined Florida Gas Company, in Winter Park, Florida as Vice President of Corporate Development, later holding the office of Senior Vice President of the transmission company and President of its successor company, Continental Resources Company. Ken left Continental Resources Company in 1981 to join Transco Energy Company in Houston, Texas where he held the positions of President, Chief Operating Officer and Director. In 1984, Ken accepted the position as Chairman and CEO of Houston Natural Gas Co., which merged with InterNorth in 1985, and which would later be renamed Enron Corp. Ken loved Enron, and saw the company as one of limitless possibilities (obviously... :loser: ). He often talked of the incredible talent at Enron and believed that the Enron employees were unsurpassed in any industry. Ken believed the real value of Enron was in its people. From the most junior employee to his top executives, Ken treated all with the same dignity and respect they deserved as children of God. Employees often remarked on how he recalled their names, family, and other personal details they shared with him. (which made it all the harder on the people he stole from :furious: ) I, the Lord, search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a man according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve. Jeremiah 12:10 For those who know and love Ken, we take comfort in the knowledge that he is in the loving presence of the one true Judge. Services Celebrations of Ken's life for family and friends will take place at the Aspen Chapel in Aspen, Colorado at 2 p.m. on Sunday July 9, 2006 and in Houston on Wednesday, July 12 at 11 a.m. at First United Methodist Church in Houston. In lieu of flowers, the family requests donations be made on Ken's behalf to The First United Methodist Church, Houston Lifeline Ministries for the Poor; United Way of Gulf Coast; YMCA of Greater Houston; Aspen Center for Environmental Studies, the Aspen School for the Deaf or the church or synagogue of your choice.
Published in the Houston Chronicle on 7/7/2006.

:sick: :sick: :furious: :furious: :furious:

 

[Opie]

Gag, barf. Hard to reconcile this saint on earth with the guy who stole so much from so many. Are we really talking about the same person?

 

[kato]

To any Houstonians or anyone else interested. Former Mayor Bob Lanier on way to hospital after arriving for Kens Lay's funeral. He's had pacemaker problems before so we shall see. Former Pres. Bush is there. No media allowed.

 

[Jules]

To any Houstonians or anyone else interested. Former Mayor Bob Lanier on way to hospital after arriving for Kens Lay's funeral. He's had pacemaker problems before so we shall see. Former Pres. Bush is there. No media allowed.

Thanks kato, I just heard that on the radio.

 

[kato]

Thanks kato, I just heard that on the radio.

Everything is ok. His pacemaker shorted out or whatever they do. Even though he does not belong to my party of choice I think he is one of the best mayors we've had. His wife (and her daughter, Courtney) is another story. They used to be on the 2nd floor of my office building and they were snobs when you would see them.