TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #2

[shadowdancer]

Can Helen's family put their DNA into NAMUS and have it compared to does including FLEK, without having to make her profile public? Is that possible?

If not, the suggestion to make a private arrangement with Mr Velling for a DNA comparison is a good one.

This may be a way for Helen's family to be able to seek answers without having to put themselves and Helen 'out there'.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

I must say when I saw the picture of Helen Green and compared it to the early drivers licisne picture of Lori Ruff I thought there was a good resembalance. The eyes and checkbones stood out to me. As much as I want to know the answer to who was Lori Ruff, I know that we must respect the wishes of Helen's family. As to their reasons it really is not relevant. Ultimately, this is their love one, and their search; and, they need to be alowed to conduct it within their own comfort zone. I believe all the support, help and prayer we offer the families of the missing must always come with respect, even if we don't agree or understand they actions of the love ones. I do hope that if they choose to not publicly compare Helen to Lori Ruff they get intouch with Mr. Velling and or the Ruff family and alow this potential match to be compared privatly so that a young child might know who her mother was, a grieving husband gets the answers he is looking for and although they might not realize it, so they get the chance to bring Helen home if she is indeed Lori. While curiosity makes me so want the answers, my curiosity need never be filled, as it has no place in the tragedies that have befallen on two families. May they find the answers they need someday.

mjak

THANK YOU!!!!! Very well stated!!!!! I agree completely.

 

[fred&edna]

Comparison with HMGreen:

 

[giagreen]

Comparison with HMGreen:

Yeah I'm sorry but this just looks like a match. I'm excited to see what may come of this.
I hope her brother comes around.

 

[Alex01]

The last several posts brought to mind a fact I wish I was aware of earlier: The families of the missing are grieving.

Grief is unpredictable and doesn't always make sense. It seems as if the grief process is elongated in an missing persons case. Phases that normally last a few years last decades.

It occurs to me that the Ruff family is grieving. They lost a daughter-in-law. Their son lost his wife. Their grand-daughter lost her mom. Their family business is plastered all over the internet.

In a very few short years Lori's daughter may read every single word we have written. I hope our deliberations will prove to be more of a blessing than a curse.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

The last several posts brought to mind a fact I wish I was aware of earlier: The families of the missing are grieving.

Grief is unpredictable and doesn't always make sense. It seems as if the grief process is elongated in an missing persons case. Phases that normally last a few years last decades.

It occurs to me that the Ruff family is grieving. They lost a daughter-in-law. Their son lost his wife. Their grand-daughter lost her mom. Their family business is plastered all over the internet.

In a very few short years Lori's daughter may read every single word we have written. I hope our deliberations will prove to be more of a blessing than a curse.

Sadly, that is very true. The same as the quote below from a newspaper article about my sister written several years ago. I too want peace for Lori's daughter. There has been way to much suffering by to many people as it is. Hopefully soon we will know.


Fort Lauderdale police Detective John Curcio recognized the need for
answers: ``It's one of the things about these families of missing
homicide victims; I don't care if it's 30 years later.''

IT'S THE PAIN

He said the pain, as obvious as a fresh wound, keeps investigators
coming back to cold case files, with so many unsolved homicides,
missing children and a daunting collection of unidentified bodies.


http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.true-crime/2005-08/msg00659.html

 

[mommylicious]

Comparison with HMGreen:

Wow! When you put them side by side the resemblance is striking. Would be wonderful to resolve 2 cases here.

 

[ClaireNC]

I must say when I saw the picture of Helen Green and compared it to the early drivers licisne picture of Lori Ruff I thought there was a good resembalance. The eyes and checkbones stood out to me. As much as I want to know the answer to who was Lori Ruff, I know that we must respect the wishes of Helen's family. As to their reasons it really is not relevant. Ultimately, this is their love one, and their search; and, they need to be allowed to conduct it within their own comfort zone. I believe all the support, help and prayer we offer the families of the missing must always come with respect, even if we don't agree or understand they actions of the love ones. I do hope that if they choose to not publicly compare Helen to Lori Ruff they get in touch with Mr. Velling and or the Ruff family and allow this potential match to be compared privately so that a young child might know who her mother was, a grieving husband gets the answers he is looking for and although they might not realize it, so they get the chance to bring Helen home if she is indeed Lori. While curiosity makes me so want the answers, my curiosity need never be filled, as it has no place in the tragedies that have befallen on two families. May they find the answers they need someday.

mjak

Thanks mjak. You put my thoughts into words. While we are curious and want to know how cases resolve, we really have no need to know. They can do it privately and finally have some closure. My heart aches for these families.

 

[mjak]

One of the biggest red flags to Lori being Helen Green is that she had a baby when Helen would have been too old to concieve Naturally. Unless Lori used an egg doner it is highly unlikly by my math calculations that she could have gotten pregnant with out an egg doner. It is said she used Invitro insemination to get pregnant. The question is did she also use an egg doner? Helen's birthdate is given as 1-20-59, making her around 48 when Lori had her daughter. It is not impossible with fertility treaments and likely an egg doner but not likely. I do believe that the later pictures of Lori Ruff could be of a women in her late 40's. As a person who has followed and looked for the missing for many many years I know better then to get to excited by physical resembalances. I have seen cases where I would have bet my last dollar it was a match and it came back negative. thus, with this obvious red flag and from my own experiences I have to be skeptical this is a match.

 

[shadowdancer]

One of the biggest red flags to Lori being Helen Green is that she had a baby when Helen would have been too old to concieve Naturally. Unless Lori used an egg doner it is highly unlikly by my math calculations that she could have gotten pregnant with out an egg doner. It is said she used Invitro insemination to get pregnant. The question is did she also use an egg doner? Helen's birthdate is given as 1-20-59, making her around 48 when Lori had her daughter. It is not impossible with fertility treaments and likely an egg doner but not likely. I do believe that the later pictures of Lori Ruff could be of a women in her late 40's. As a person who has followed and looked for the missing for many many years I know better then to get to excited by physical resembalances. I have seen cases where I would have bet my last dollar it was a match and it came back negative. thus, with this obvious red flag and from my own experiences I have to be skeptical this is a match.

You can definitely get pregnant in your late 40s using your own eggs, as long as you haven't yet gone through the menopause.

A high profile example of this in the UK was the wife of a recent Prime Minister having a baby without fertility treatment at 45 and then going onto conceive naturally again aged 47 (although that pregnancy ended in miscarriage).

 

[MysticJynx]

You can definitely get pregnant in your late 40s using your own eggs, as long as you haven't yet gone through the menopause.

A high profile example of this in the UK was the wife of a recent Prime Minister having a baby without fertility treatment at 45 and then going onto conceive naturally again aged 47 (although that pregnancy ended in miscarriage).

I believe Lori and Blake had help conceiving after trying for a few years and suffering a few miscarriages.

 

[Laughing]

If nothing else, we have provided something that the family can do in their search for Helen. They can discuss the DNA comparison, they can decide about participating. Given time, I expect they will take that step. After decades, they have some control, some power.

Next problem: if mjak is correct about donor eggs, is there a DNA sample for FLEK??? Hair taken at the funeral home, perhaps?

Sorry, not interested is wading back through our pages and pages of assembled thought for this bit.

 

[ClaireNC]

(respectfully snipped for space)

Next problem: if mjak is correct about donor eggs, is there a DNA sample for FLEK??? Hair taken at the funeral home, perhaps?

A DNA sample was submitted for FLEK and the tests are complete, according to NamUS. https://identifyus.org/en/cases/9863

 

[Pink Panther]

Comparison with HMGreen:

fred&edna - Is there any way that you could repost this with Helen's actual photo as well???

The mouth doesn't look like a fit but it would be good to see the images side-by-side. (The eyes might be similar, the nose could have been altered but the mouth - that's a little more difficult to change.)

 

[fred&edna]

I hope this helps. Also, If the Ruff family had an opportunity to view these photos, I wonder if they might see a resemblance between Helen Marie Green's childhood photo and Blake & Lori's daughter??

 

[fred&edna]

Are there any photo's of Lori's daughter? I showed them the photo's of Lori.

Even if photos are available, their daughter would be considered a victim (and she is a minor), so I doubt WS would allow any info or photos to be shared here.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Even if photos are available, their daughter would be considered a victim (and she is a minor), so I doubt WS would allow any info or photos to be shared here.

True, sorry.....a little tired, and obviously brain fried.

 

[shadowdancer]

If nothing else, we have provided something that the family can do in their search for Helen. They can discuss the DNA comparison, they can decide about participating. Given time, I expect they will take that step. After decades, they have some control, some power.

Next problem: if mjak is correct about donor eggs, is there a DNA sample for FLEK??? Hair taken at the funeral home, perhaps?

Sorry, not interested is wading back through our pages and pages of assembled thought for this bit.

I am sure that the Ruff family and/or her Dr would have mentioned if donor eggs were used.

As long as you are pre-menopause it is possible to get pregnant with your own eggs, especially if you have IVF to help with the process, as FLEK did. Just because she may have been as old as her late forties does NOT mean that donor eggs were needed.

 

[ClaireNC]

Even if photos are available, their daughter would be considered a victim (and she is a minor), so I doubt WS would allow any info or photos to be shared here.

True that we wouldn't want to post info or picture of their daughter. I just wanted to add, that I am pretty sure no pictures were found online of her child. The family is very private with what they post on social media, etc.

 

[coxtolstoy]

Should she be Helen Green, her choosing 'Kennedy' as an alias may be explained by her birthday coinciding with the date of presidential inaugurations (John F. Kennedy in 1961), however, is it plausible that a 30/31-year-old woman applying in person would have been issued an ID (Idaho) stating an age of 18-19 just on the basis of a piece of paper without raising questions?