TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #5

[Linda9681]

That sounded kinda rude. It was honestly not meant to be. We have some amazing new investigators here and they should be put to good use! Let's give them solid things to follow


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[Gardener1850]

i really wonder about her vegetarianism too. It is the one thing that makes me think she really might be from the PNW. There are many vegetarians/vegans in Seattle and Portland.

I wasn't aware that vegetarianism was a common SDA practice. I just found another tie to what I thought was LDS in that family I posted about earlier. But honestly, I don't know the difference between LDS and SDA-- maybe I am confusing the two. I need to educate myself!

Some Buddhists are vegetarian. Perhaps LEK's vegetarianism is a vestige of her time with the Chinese roommate that we were researching a few days ago?

LDS and SDA are completely different in theology, practice and history. I know more about SDA than LDS because I actually looked into going to a SDA university. I'm not SDA, I was just interested in a major they had there that I couldn't take anywhere else close to my hometown. One thing I can think of that the two religions have in common is prescriptions for modest dress and strict controls on forms of entertainment they are allowed to take in (radio, tv, etc). When I looked at that SDA university the rules were that women had to wear long skirts or dresses at all times and tvs and radios were prohibited from the dorms. This was 20+ years ago, so if SDA colleges have changed their rules, I wouldn't know. I didn't even apply to that college once I found out the rules. Another thing most SDA's are against is tattoos and body piercings of any kind. Very conservative SDAs don't wear any jewelry, not even necklaces or bracelets. This stands out to me because of the earlier comment above about FLEK not having any jewelry on in her Idaho ID. I wonder if she even had pierced ears? The picture is too grainy to tell. It looks like she is wearing earrings in the red passport photo and the white polo shirt TX license photo, but other that that she was not one to wear a lot of jewelry (in the few pictures we have).

Another interesting thing about SDA's is they came out of a historical movement called the Great Awakenings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Seventh-day_Adventist_Church
Many protestant denominations came from the Great Awakenings, but that reminds me of the names of that ministry posted up thread. When I first saw that ministry page it made me think of Pentecostal or Charismatic churches because of the name but they could be an SDA ministry. Now I'm going to have to look into their denominational background to satisfy my curiosity.

Lori went to Southern Baptist churches. If she came from an LDS background it would be harder to transition to Southern Baptist, IMO. SDA however have more in common with Southern Baptists. There are major differences (like SDA's worship on Saturday instead of Sunday) but Lori would find it easier to fit in at an SB church, IMO. I've known a few SDA's that converted to SB but I've never met a former LDS who became SB. Could just be my experience though. I have lived in 5 different states on the Eastern half of the US but I have not lived in any the Western states where there are a lot more LDS people.

ETA: The Awakening Ministries is Apostolic: http://awakening.squarespace.com/about-us/
Just a quick look at that picture of him and his wife I would say they don't have anything to do with LDS or SDA at all-- tattoos and a strapless dress. I'm not sure what the interest is in them or their ministry in connection to FLEK. Did they have the 810 PO Box at the same time Lori used it? If that's the case, I'd say she could have known them or worked for them. If they had it at different times then I'm not sure of the reason for digging into them.

 

[Gardener1850]

They haven't really explained how they even knew about this drop box in Boulder City. The Seattle Times article said she had them forward her mail to Dallas. What did they find that led them to this mail box? There are so many holes in the info we have. I am trying to understand why if you are traveling you suddenly need to provide an address to someone. So was she in Boise waiting on a check? So she could not wait any longer and kept calling whoever was sending it as she road the bus to dallas. Then when she gets to Boulder City, she opens this box and gives it to the sender, then arranges for this letter to be forwarded on to Dallas? Maybe she waited there a few days, but she was in Dallas by July 5th to complete the name change. But where to in Dallas? General delivery?

Well there had to be a reason she had that mail drop but you are right that we are missing big chunks of info. Could she have originally been from somewhere near Boulder City?

 

[Gardener1850]

Ok y'all. Please try to pick a topic( it helps to divide and conquer) and follow it through. We are losing very promising leads by " maybe it was this" maybe that" with no valid lead or reason. It buries the real leads we have. No disrespect but it is BERY confusing!


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Sorry, Linda. I didn't see this request when I made my two replies above. I'm replying to multiple topics but I find it all interesting. There is so little that is solid to follow. I'm really impressed with how much you guys have contacted people about this case! Those leads need to be followed for sure. I promise I'm not trying to bury the important stuff.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Okay, I need some memory jogging here. Did we at one point come across the name Chong? Was that one of our rabbit holes? If so, I might have found something.

 

[Gardener1850]

Okay, I need some memory jogging here. Did we at one point come across the name Chong? Was that one of our rabbit holes? If so, I might have found something.

I don't recall finding any Chongs. The note page was Jueng or Juong. Lori worked with some people with the last name Chiu.

 

[Linda9681]

Sorry, Linda. I didn't see this request when I made my two replies above. I'm replying to multiple topics but I find it all interesting. There is so little that is solid to follow. I'm really impressed with how much you guys have contacted people about this case! Those leads need to be followed for sure. I promise I'm not trying to bury the important stuff.

Oh no! This was not directed at you or anyone at all in particular! I am also guilty of it! I think we can solve it you have really put lots of work in on this!!! You are appreciated


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[Linda9681]

Okay, I need some memory jogging here. Did we at one point come across the name Chong? Was that one of our rabbit holes? If so, I might have found something.

I remember that name, but can't remember the connection.
But, it could have been cheech and Chong, hahahahah

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[mrseeker]

Well there had to be a reason she had that mail drop but you are right that we are missing big chunks of info. Could she have originally been from somewhere near Boulder City?

Boulder City is basically a suburb of Las Vegas. If you drive towards vegas, you first come to the next town over, Henderson. Henderson would have been the main suburb of Las Vegas then. I lived there. It borders Boulder City to the SE and It would not be a terrible drive to commute to vegas from Boulder City. In the other direction towards Arizona, the first major town you come to is Kingman AZ about 80 miles away. There are houses along the way though. Kingman is on I-40 so if you were going from Vegas anywhere in that direction you would probably drive through Kingman. You could drive south on hwy 95 towards needles CA and catch I 40 there, but you would only do that if you wanted to go due south or west. Of course if you were going to LA or Orange county from vegas you would just go I 15. Now there is a bridge over the Colorado so you no longer have to drive over the Dam. So could she have lived in Vegas or Henderson and used that box? Absolutely. Kingman is a good hike, but she could have lived in that direction too.

One other tidbit. Kingman is in in Mohave County AZ the same County that the FLDS polygamist cult by Warren Jeffs lived for a time in Colorado City. Because of the canyon, you have to drive a long ways around through vegas to get from Boulder City to Colorado City. Mohave County is pretty big anyway. Not sure there is a connection. Just another interesting fact.

 

[pelican95]

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but her height is so key to solving this. She was reportedly about 5'10; that is very tall for a woman (almost the 99th percentile).

Personally, I would just focus on any missing person within an inch or two of her height (5'8-6'0). Of course, it's possible that someone misreported her height into the missing persons database, but odds are there are not that many missing women that tall. Then again, maybe she was never reported missing.

 

[undercoverboogie]

The five foot ten measurement isn't accurate, though. That's just what LR used when she applied for her license and as anyone who has been to the DMV can attest, you write down your own height and that's what is used on your license. I've also seen suggested measurements of anywhere from five six to five ten. That being said, at some point on here, somebody even suggested that LR had Marfan's. (Which, is really outrageous, I think. She was tall but not gigantic tall.) I'm not sure why everyone thinks this lady was tall... there's five photographs to go off that don't say anything empirical about her height and she lied about her identity.

So I suppose my point is, how is height central to this? She was taller than average and at the outside chance she was five foot ten, there's lots of five foot ten women. While in the 99th percentile of height, that doesn't mean that it gives you a small group to work with.

 

[OBrunhilde!]

Okay, I need some memory jogging here. Did we at one point come across the name Chong? Was that one of our rabbit holes? If so, I might have found something.

A week or so ago, someone noticed that a man with the surname Fang had also lived at 3 (?) of the same addresses as LEK.

If this is so, I thought that was a very solid lead, and worth pursuing.

 

[OBrunhilde!]

I'm on it. I messaged DMB and she is very open and interested in looking into a possible connection. She wants me to call her today so I'm hoping that will work out. My only hesitation is that even though I've been following this case closely and have done some research, I don't have the working knowledge of it that some of you have developed from all the man hours you've put in. I'm more than happy to talk to her but if any of you would prefer that I put her in touch with one of you (experts! lol) I would be more than happy to do that as well. Whatever is best for all involved.

Famtastic! I am so happy to hear this. Thank you! I would just point her toward the Seattle Times articles, LEK's pictures, some of her more noteworthy features like her height and her hands, and see if the timelines, locations, or any of the words on the note sheet make sense relative to what she knows about her family. Good luck to you, and again, thank you.

 

[Gardener1850]

Boulder City is basically a suburb of Las Vegas. If you drive towards vegas, you first come to the next town over, Henderson. Henderson would have been the main suburb of Las Vegas then. I lived there. It borders Boulder City to the SE and It would not be a terrible drive to commute to vegas from Boulder City. In the other direction towards Arizona, the first major town you come to is Kingman AZ about 80 miles away. There are houses along the way though. Kingman is on I-40 so if you were going from Vegas anywhere in that direction you would probably drive through Kingman. You could drive south on hwy 95 towards needles CA and catch I 40 there, but you would only do that if you wanted to go due south or west. Of course if you were going to LA or Orange county from vegas you would just go I 15. Now there is a bridge over the Colorado so you no longer have to drive over the Dam. So could she have lived in Vegas or Henderson and used that box? Absolutely. Kingman is a good hike, but she could have lived in that direction too.

One other tidbit. Kingman is in in Mohave County AZ the same County that the FLDS polygamist cult by Warren Jeffs lived for a time in Colorado City. Because of the canyon, you have to drive a long ways around through vegas to get from Boulder City to Colorado City. Mohave County is pretty big anyway. Not sure there is a connection. Just another interesting fact.

I understand why many people think Lori was an escapee from the FLDS. The geography is right and she has the physical features. I feel it is just as likely she worked in Las Vegas (or was trafficked to Vegas) and wanted out of that life. The comment from a past boyfriend saying she was a "dancer" goes along with that idea. She might have not wanted to strip anymore but did a few jobs in Dallas out of desperation and to pay for her college. She did manage to go to Dallas Community College without student loans (that we know of).

So back to Boulder City. Let's say she started out living in Las Vegas. Maybe she had a boyfriend or handler she didn't want finding out her plans. So she gets a mail drop in Boulder City first. It's a close enough drive she could check it frequently and right along the bus route. From Las Vegas to Bakersfield is only a 4.5-5 hour drive. She could go there and back in one day easily to get BST's BC on May 20th. Or she could have had the BC mailed to Boulder City. Las Vegas to Boise is a little further-9-10 hours drive but it could be done in a day, with one night in a hotel or sleeping in her car if she was desperate. We don't know why Boise but it could just be that she knew it was easy to get an ID there (as a previous poster said they knew college students from Washington State would go there to get fake IDs). She could have the mail from the Idaho address on the ID forwarded to the Boulder City box. Then she just goes back to NV to wait for the ID to come in the mail. As soon as she gets the Idaho ID in the mail she sets up the Boulder City address to forward to Dallas and goes to Texas to apply for the name change. Where in Dallas did she send the mail is a key question. Her first PO box in Dallas was the Mockingbird Lane address she had in 1988, so my guess is it forwarded there. How and when she set up that PO Box is unknown though. We still don't know enough about how she established Texas residency for her name change application. The judge was convinced she had been living in Dallas, Texas. Having that entire name change record could fill in some blanks. This is all just conjecture but up until this I was thinking she traveled in a linear fashion--from Bakersfield to Boise then down to Dallas--without any major stops. But if she lived in NV near Boulder City she could have continued to work there right up until she moved to Dallas with just day or long weekend trips to get the things she needed to be BST.

 

[mrseeker]

I understand why many people think Lori was an escapee from the FLDS. The geography is right and she has the physical features. I feel it is just as likely she worked in Las Vegas (or was trafficked to Vegas) and wanted out of that life. The comment from a past boyfriend saying she was a "dancer" goes along with that idea. She might have not wanted to strip anymore but did a few jobs in Dallas out of desperation and to pay for her college. She did manage to go to Dallas Community College without student loans (that we know of).

So back to Boulder City. Let's say she started out living in Las Vegas. Maybe she had a boyfriend or handler she didn't want finding out her plans. So she gets a mail drop in Boulder City first. It's a close enough drive she could check it frequently and right along the bus route. From Las Vegas to Bakersfield is only a 4.5-5 hour drive. She could go there and back in one day easily to get BST's BC on May 20th. Or she could have had the BC mailed to Boulder City. Las Vegas to Boise is a little further-9-10 hours drive but it could be done in a day, with one night in a hotel or sleeping in her car if she was desperate. We don't know why Boise but it could just be that she knew it was easy to get an ID there (as a previous poster said they knew college students from Washington State would go there to get fake IDs). She could have the mail from the Idaho address on the ID forwarded to the Boulder City box. Then she just goes back to NV to wait for the ID to come in the mail. As soon as she gets the Idaho ID in the mail she sets up the Boulder City address to forward to Dallas and goes to Texas to apply for the name change. Where in Dallas did she send the mail is a key question. Her first PO box in Dallas was the Mockingbird Lane address she had in 1988, so my guess is it forwarded there. How and when she set up that PO Box is unknown though. We still don't know enough about how she established Texas residency for her name change application. The judge was convinced she had been living in Dallas, Texas. Having that entire name change record could fill in some blanks. This is all just conjecture but up until this I was thinking she traveled in a linear fashion--from Bakersfield to Boise then down to Dallas--without any major stops. But if she lived in NV near Boulder City she could have continued to work there right up until she moved to Dallas with just day or long weekend trips to get the things she needed to be BST.

Boise to me is the anomaly and could be the most important. But I am stuck there. LOL

 

[Gardener1850]

Boise to me is the anomaly and could be the most important. But I am stuck there. LOL

I know, I have played with the idea she lived in Boise or had some connection there too. One thing of interest in this discussion about Boulder City being close to the Hoover Dam is the occupation of someone I found in Boise. The man who lived in the house next door to FLEK's Boise address--the house that shares a mailbox stand at the street-- was a geologist/engineer who worked for the Bureau of Reclamation with a specialty in dams. He has retired but runs a ministry here: http://creationwiki.org/Brent_Carter

 

[EmiLove832]

Lots of FLDS that leave the group flee to Vegas. I've seen quite a documentaries and tv shows where Vegas is the first place they go. Maybe because it's such a large city they feel they won't be found?

I do think there is a connection to Idaho. Also, lots of LDS in Idaho as well.

Or if she had a guide on how to change her identity or a broker, they could have sent her to Idaho due to the ease of getting an ID card/license there at the time.

 

[newfiedee]

Wanted to share ... this is a hand book for awakening ministries .....Hope it helps
.
http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static...5-fold.pdf?token=J9o6YVBgx7WErCTeq3tJe4OZ2VU=

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I remember that name, but can't remember the connection.
But, it could have been cheech and Chong, hahahahah

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Wasn't it in connection with the Stalder research? Am I way off on this?

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Found it. It was Jennifer Chong Stalder. Reason I was asking is because I perused through the Boulder City Chamber of Commerce link that one of you posted. Besides the Las Vegas skydiving person and a marketing person, this one jumped out at me. Just don't know if it's the same Jennifer.

China Bistro-Asian Fusion
Jennifer Chong Hong

Owner
1420 Nevada Highway
Boulder City, NV 89005
702-294-0888
Member Since: 2014