Jeana (DP)
Former Member
Darlin, none of us are blind. Please spare us the font, ok?
TX - Margaret Schlosser, 10 mos, arms cut off, dies, Plano, 22 Nov 2004 *Insanity*
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Jeana (DP)
Former Member
Closing arguments begin in Schlosser trial
Closing arguments began Wednesday morning in the trial of the Plano mother who allegedly cut off the arms of her 10-month-old daughter in November 2004.
* * *
The prosecution told the jury those who testified Dena Schlosser was insane made up their minds about her sanity before they ever met her.
The defense then asked why the state didn't have their own psychiatrist examine Ms. Schlosser. Defense attorney Bill Schultz said it was because they would not be able to find anyone who disagreed with the three psychiatrists who testified for the defense.
David Self, one of those three psychiatrists, testified earlier that Schlosser told him she saw a TV report shortly before daughter Maggie's death about a lion maiming a boy. She thought that it signaled the biblical end of days and that God commanded her to cut off her daughter's arms, as well as her own arms, legs and head.
"This lady was in a delusional psychosis," Dr. Self said. "And believed without a doubt that she was following God's will."
Schlosser's minister Doyle Davidson, a self-proclaimed apostle and prophet, testified on the third day of the trial that he does not believe in mental illness and that those problems are "caused by demons."
Her husband, John Schlosser, has testified that before his daughter died, he did not understand mental illness. But now he sees he should have sought help, he has said.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...ies/022206dnmetschlosserclosing.513c6963.html
Closing arguments began Wednesday morning in the trial of the Plano mother who allegedly cut off the arms of her 10-month-old daughter in November 2004.
* * *
The prosecution told the jury those who testified Dena Schlosser was insane made up their minds about her sanity before they ever met her.
The defense then asked why the state didn't have their own psychiatrist examine Ms. Schlosser. Defense attorney Bill Schultz said it was because they would not be able to find anyone who disagreed with the three psychiatrists who testified for the defense.
David Self, one of those three psychiatrists, testified earlier that Schlosser told him she saw a TV report shortly before daughter Maggie's death about a lion maiming a boy. She thought that it signaled the biblical end of days and that God commanded her to cut off her daughter's arms, as well as her own arms, legs and head.
"This lady was in a delusional psychosis," Dr. Self said. "And believed without a doubt that she was following God's will."
Schlosser's minister Doyle Davidson, a self-proclaimed apostle and prophet, testified on the third day of the trial that he does not believe in mental illness and that those problems are "caused by demons."
Her husband, John Schlosser, has testified that before his daughter died, he did not understand mental illness. But now he sees he should have sought help, he has said.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...ies/022206dnmetschlosserclosing.513c6963.html
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
Jury deliberating in Schlosser trial
The jury began deliberations just after noon today in the capital murder trial of the Plano mother accused of killing her 10-month-old daughter by cutting off her arms at the shoulders.
In closing arguments, prosecutors told the jury of five women and seven men that psychiatrists who testified Dena Schlosser was insane made up their minds before ever examining her. They said the crime was so horrible, the psychiatrists, like many people, already believed that only someone not in her right mind would kill a baby by severing her arms at the shoulders.
* * *
Defense attorney David Haynes said there is not "one shred" of evidence that Ms. Schlosser was sane when Maggie died.
"There is not one shred, not one shred of evidence she acted in her right mind," he said. "The evidence shows she is not guilty by reason insanity. I am asking you to have the courage to say so."
Mr. Haynes told jurors that they should not ignore the emotions they feel about the case.
"Feel the emotion," he told them. But, he added, "Decide the case on the evidence."
Prosecutor Curtis Howard said it was not until after Ms. Schlosser killed Maggie that people began to think she was crazy.
"You get to see Dena Schlosser's life after she horribly murdered her child," he said. "People looked at her differently. She became that Plano mother who cut the arms off her child."
Mr. Schultz called Ms. Schlosser to stand next to him for a few moments. He told the jury, "Maybe you've got to hate her."
* * *
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...ies/022206dnmetschlosserclosing.513c6963.html
The jury began deliberations just after noon today in the capital murder trial of the Plano mother accused of killing her 10-month-old daughter by cutting off her arms at the shoulders.
In closing arguments, prosecutors told the jury of five women and seven men that psychiatrists who testified Dena Schlosser was insane made up their minds before ever examining her. They said the crime was so horrible, the psychiatrists, like many people, already believed that only someone not in her right mind would kill a baby by severing her arms at the shoulders.
* * *
Defense attorney David Haynes said there is not "one shred" of evidence that Ms. Schlosser was sane when Maggie died.
"There is not one shred, not one shred of evidence she acted in her right mind," he said. "The evidence shows she is not guilty by reason insanity. I am asking you to have the courage to say so."
Mr. Haynes told jurors that they should not ignore the emotions they feel about the case.
"Feel the emotion," he told them. But, he added, "Decide the case on the evidence."
Prosecutor Curtis Howard said it was not until after Ms. Schlosser killed Maggie that people began to think she was crazy.
"You get to see Dena Schlosser's life after she horribly murdered her child," he said. "People looked at her differently. She became that Plano mother who cut the arms off her child."
Mr. Schultz called Ms. Schlosser to stand next to him for a few moments. He told the jury, "Maybe you've got to hate her."
* * *
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...ies/022206dnmetschlosserclosing.513c6963.html
BillyGoatGruff
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That's what psychosis does to you.cathieq said:
BillyGoatGruff
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Man, this is textbook schizophrenic psychosis. When people tell you there're seeing specially coded messages directed at them in their soap operas, radio broadcasts, on the backs of cereal boxes--call a doctor, pronto!Jeana (DP) said:
Didn't this woman also make a serious attempt at sawing off one of her own arms as well?
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
BillyGoatGruff said:
From what I've read, she stabbed herself in the shoulder area and its possible the knife was still in her body when the police arrived. Apparently, she was singing on the 911 call and when police arrived.
I'm very very glad that I'm not on the jury. I'd hate to have to come up with a verdict on this case.
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
Schlosser jury resumes deliberations
Panel revisits testimony of officer, psychiatrist in mother's murder trial
McKINNEY After more than nine hours of deliberations the day before, a Collin County jury on Thursday morning reconvened to determine a verdict in the capital murder trial of Dena Schlosser, the Plano mother accused of killing her 10-month-old daughter.
* * *
After over two hours of deliberations Thursday, state District Judge Chris Oldner called the jury back in around 11:30 a.m. because the presiding juror sent a note to the court.
The jury wanted the judge to read back the prosecution's opening and closing statements, but the judge refused. Statements by attorneys are not considered evidence by the court.
Panelists had begun deliberations just after noon Wednesday, but at 5:20 p.m., Judge Oldner called them back into the courtroom because the presiding juror had written two notes to the court. The second note was a clarification of the first.
The jury asked about the testimony of Plano police Officer Sean White, who testified about Ms. Schlosser chanting and growling in the hospital the day of her arrest. He also testified that she asked for forgiveness.
The panel wanted more specifics about the forgiveness, but it was unclear what she meant, Officer White's testimony said. She did not mention Maggie or her other children when asking for forgiveness.
Jurors also asked about mental illness definitions that a psychiatrist testified about.
The judge read back testimony to the jurors and they began deliberating once again. Four hours later, when it was clear they would not reach a verdict, they were dismissed and asked to return this morning.
* * *
Linda Tucker, an alternate juror who was dismissed by the judge when the jury began deliberations, initially refused to comment as she left the courthouse. Just before she got in her car, she said she had not made a decision, but added, "I mean, do you want her back on the street?"
When asked what she thought of the cases presented by both sides, Ms. Tucker said: "I think they both did very well. I was very impressed."
* * *
Mr. Haynes said outside the courtroom that he was "a little surprised" that the prosecution didn't put on testimony from psychiatrists. When asked about the experts who testified for the defense, he said, "They all came to the same conclusion. That ought to tell you something."
He said he remains hopeful that the defense would be successful, but noted that "almost every insanity defense is unsuccessful."
* * *
Earlier in the day, prosecutor John William "Bill" Dobiyanski slammed the experts' testimony, saying it is not definitive. Psychiatrists who testified described different reasons and episodes that led them to conclude Ms. Schlosser was insane.
"Is an educated guess enough? Does guesswork really count?" he asked. "That's disturbing."
Mr. Haynes said there is not "one shred" of evidence that Ms. Schlosser was sane when Maggie died.
"There is not one shred, not one shred of evidence she acted in her right mind," he said. "The evidence shows she is not guilty by reason of insanity. I am asking you to have the courage to say so."
* * *
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...ies/022206dnmetschlosserclosing.513c6963.html
Panel revisits testimony of officer, psychiatrist in mother's murder trial
McKINNEY After more than nine hours of deliberations the day before, a Collin County jury on Thursday morning reconvened to determine a verdict in the capital murder trial of Dena Schlosser, the Plano mother accused of killing her 10-month-old daughter.
* * *
After over two hours of deliberations Thursday, state District Judge Chris Oldner called the jury back in around 11:30 a.m. because the presiding juror sent a note to the court.
The jury wanted the judge to read back the prosecution's opening and closing statements, but the judge refused. Statements by attorneys are not considered evidence by the court.
Panelists had begun deliberations just after noon Wednesday, but at 5:20 p.m., Judge Oldner called them back into the courtroom because the presiding juror had written two notes to the court. The second note was a clarification of the first.
The jury asked about the testimony of Plano police Officer Sean White, who testified about Ms. Schlosser chanting and growling in the hospital the day of her arrest. He also testified that she asked for forgiveness.
The panel wanted more specifics about the forgiveness, but it was unclear what she meant, Officer White's testimony said. She did not mention Maggie or her other children when asking for forgiveness.
Jurors also asked about mental illness definitions that a psychiatrist testified about.
The judge read back testimony to the jurors and they began deliberating once again. Four hours later, when it was clear they would not reach a verdict, they were dismissed and asked to return this morning.
* * *
Linda Tucker, an alternate juror who was dismissed by the judge when the jury began deliberations, initially refused to comment as she left the courthouse. Just before she got in her car, she said she had not made a decision, but added, "I mean, do you want her back on the street?"
When asked what she thought of the cases presented by both sides, Ms. Tucker said: "I think they both did very well. I was very impressed."
* * *
Mr. Haynes said outside the courtroom that he was "a little surprised" that the prosecution didn't put on testimony from psychiatrists. When asked about the experts who testified for the defense, he said, "They all came to the same conclusion. That ought to tell you something."
He said he remains hopeful that the defense would be successful, but noted that "almost every insanity defense is unsuccessful."
* * *
Earlier in the day, prosecutor John William "Bill" Dobiyanski slammed the experts' testimony, saying it is not definitive. Psychiatrists who testified described different reasons and episodes that led them to conclude Ms. Schlosser was insane.
"Is an educated guess enough? Does guesswork really count?" he asked. "That's disturbing."
Mr. Haynes said there is not "one shred" of evidence that Ms. Schlosser was sane when Maggie died.
"There is not one shred, not one shred of evidence she acted in her right mind," he said. "The evidence shows she is not guilty by reason of insanity. I am asking you to have the courage to say so."
* * *
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...ies/022206dnmetschlosserclosing.513c6963.html
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
Schlosser jury resumes deliberations
Panel revisits testimony of officer, psychiatrist in mother's murder trial
McKINNEY After more than nine hours of deliberations the day before, a Collin County jury on Thursday morning reconvened to determine a verdict in the capital murder trial of Dena Schlosser, the Plano mother accused of killing her 10-month-old daughter.
* * *
After over two hours of deliberations Thursday, state District Judge Chris Oldner called the jury back in around 11:30 a.m. because the presiding juror sent a note to the court.
The jury wanted the judge to read back the prosecution's opening and closing statements, but the judge refused. Statements by attorneys are not considered evidence by the court.
Panelists had begun deliberations just after noon Wednesday, but at 5:20 p.m., Judge Oldner called them back into the courtroom because the presiding juror had written two notes to the court. The second note was a clarification of the first.
The jury asked about the testimony of Plano police Officer Sean White, who testified about Ms. Schlosser chanting and growling in the hospital the day of her arrest. He also testified that she asked for forgiveness.
The panel wanted more specifics about the forgiveness, but it was unclear what she meant, Officer White's testimony said. She did not mention Maggie or her other children when asking for forgiveness.
Jurors also asked about mental illness definitions that a psychiatrist testified about.
The judge read back testimony to the jurors and they began deliberating once again. Four hours later, when it was clear they would not reach a verdict, they were dismissed and asked to return this morning.
* * *
Linda Tucker, an alternate juror who was dismissed by the judge when the jury began deliberations, initially refused to comment as she left the courthouse. Just before she got in her car, she said she had not made a decision, but added, "I mean, do you want her back on the street?"
When asked what she thought of the cases presented by both sides, Ms. Tucker said: "I think they both did very well. I was very impressed."
* * *
Mr. Haynes said outside the courtroom that he was "a little surprised" that the prosecution didn't put on testimony from psychiatrists. When asked about the experts who testified for the defense, he said, "They all came to the same conclusion. That ought to tell you something."
He said he remains hopeful that the defense would be successful, but noted that "almost every insanity defense is unsuccessful."
* * *
Earlier in the day, prosecutor John William "Bill" Dobiyanski slammed the experts' testimony, saying it is not definitive. Psychiatrists who testified described different reasons and episodes that led them to conclude Ms. Schlosser was insane.
"Is an educated guess enough? Does guesswork really count?" he asked. "That's disturbing."
Mr. Haynes said there is not "one shred" of evidence that Ms. Schlosser was sane when Maggie died.
"There is not one shred, not one shred of evidence she acted in her right mind," he said. "The evidence shows she is not guilty by reason of insanity. I am asking you to have the courage to say so."
* * *
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...ies/022206dnmetschlosserclosing.513c6963.html
Panel revisits testimony of officer, psychiatrist in mother's murder trial
McKINNEY After more than nine hours of deliberations the day before, a Collin County jury on Thursday morning reconvened to determine a verdict in the capital murder trial of Dena Schlosser, the Plano mother accused of killing her 10-month-old daughter.
* * *
After over two hours of deliberations Thursday, state District Judge Chris Oldner called the jury back in around 11:30 a.m. because the presiding juror sent a note to the court.
The jury wanted the judge to read back the prosecution's opening and closing statements, but the judge refused. Statements by attorneys are not considered evidence by the court.
Panelists had begun deliberations just after noon Wednesday, but at 5:20 p.m., Judge Oldner called them back into the courtroom because the presiding juror had written two notes to the court. The second note was a clarification of the first.
The jury asked about the testimony of Plano police Officer Sean White, who testified about Ms. Schlosser chanting and growling in the hospital the day of her arrest. He also testified that she asked for forgiveness.
The panel wanted more specifics about the forgiveness, but it was unclear what she meant, Officer White's testimony said. She did not mention Maggie or her other children when asking for forgiveness.
Jurors also asked about mental illness definitions that a psychiatrist testified about.
The judge read back testimony to the jurors and they began deliberating once again. Four hours later, when it was clear they would not reach a verdict, they were dismissed and asked to return this morning.
* * *
Linda Tucker, an alternate juror who was dismissed by the judge when the jury began deliberations, initially refused to comment as she left the courthouse. Just before she got in her car, she said she had not made a decision, but added, "I mean, do you want her back on the street?"
When asked what she thought of the cases presented by both sides, Ms. Tucker said: "I think they both did very well. I was very impressed."
* * *
Mr. Haynes said outside the courtroom that he was "a little surprised" that the prosecution didn't put on testimony from psychiatrists. When asked about the experts who testified for the defense, he said, "They all came to the same conclusion. That ought to tell you something."
He said he remains hopeful that the defense would be successful, but noted that "almost every insanity defense is unsuccessful."
* * *
Earlier in the day, prosecutor John William "Bill" Dobiyanski slammed the experts' testimony, saying it is not definitive. Psychiatrists who testified described different reasons and episodes that led them to conclude Ms. Schlosser was insane.
"Is an educated guess enough? Does guesswork really count?" he asked. "That's disturbing."
Mr. Haynes said there is not "one shred" of evidence that Ms. Schlosser was sane when Maggie died.
"There is not one shred, not one shred of evidence she acted in her right mind," he said. "The evidence shows she is not guilty by reason of insanity. I am asking you to have the courage to say so."
* * *
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...ies/022206dnmetschlosserclosing.513c6963.html
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
Jury says its deadlocked. Judge tells them to keep trying. :doh: :doh: :doh:
aussiegran
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McKINNEY, Texas (AP) -- Jurors in the murder trial of a woman accused of cutting off her baby's arms resumed deliberations Friday, a day after telling the judge they were deadlocked.
The jury had deliberated for two days in the trial of Dena Schlosser, 37, before sending a note to State District Judge Chris Oldner on Thursday saying they couldn't agree on a verdict. Oldner urged them to keep trying.
Schlosser pleaded innocent by reason of insanity in the death of her 10-month-old daughter Margaret. Police said they had found her soaked in blood, holding a knife and listening to a hymn as the baby lay dying in her crib.
The defense says Schlosser didn't know right from wrong during the 2004 slaying.
Her attorneys want her committed to a state mental hospital. Prosecutors are seeking a life sentence.
Before adjourning Thursday night, jurors asked to rehear testimony from three doctors who said they believed Schlosser suffered from severe mental illness and did not know right or wrong at the time of the baby's death.
They earlier reheard testimony from a Plano police officer who described how Schlosser screamed, prayed and begged for forgiveness in a hospital the day her daughter died.
During closing arguments, Assistant District Attorney Bill Dobiyanski displayed a bloody kitchen knife and urged jurors to hold Schlosser accountable for the death of her daughter. He said psychiatrists were merely taking educated guesses when they testified Schlosser didn't know right from wrong.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SEVERED_ARMS?SITE=WIFON&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
.......................................
Poor baby.
The jury had deliberated for two days in the trial of Dena Schlosser, 37, before sending a note to State District Judge Chris Oldner on Thursday saying they couldn't agree on a verdict. Oldner urged them to keep trying.
Schlosser pleaded innocent by reason of insanity in the death of her 10-month-old daughter Margaret. Police said they had found her soaked in blood, holding a knife and listening to a hymn as the baby lay dying in her crib.
The defense says Schlosser didn't know right from wrong during the 2004 slaying.
Her attorneys want her committed to a state mental hospital. Prosecutors are seeking a life sentence.
Before adjourning Thursday night, jurors asked to rehear testimony from three doctors who said they believed Schlosser suffered from severe mental illness and did not know right or wrong at the time of the baby's death.
They earlier reheard testimony from a Plano police officer who described how Schlosser screamed, prayed and begged for forgiveness in a hospital the day her daughter died.
During closing arguments, Assistant District Attorney Bill Dobiyanski displayed a bloody kitchen knife and urged jurors to hold Schlosser accountable for the death of her daughter. He said psychiatrists were merely taking educated guesses when they testified Schlosser didn't know right from wrong.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SEVERED_ARMS?SITE=WIFON&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
.......................................
Poor baby.That entire "jezebel Spirit " thing just pisses me right off.
Who are these women believing this crap??
Maybe we need to start a church that claims men have that whoredog spirit and IT needs to be driven out..
SO sad those young girls will be raised by this fruit loop father believing they should be submissive good little wives when they grow up.
Who are these women believing this crap??
Maybe we need to start a church that claims men have that whoredog spirit and IT needs to be driven out..
SO sad those young girls will be raised by this fruit loop father believing they should be submissive good little wives when they grow up.
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
A jury deciding whether Dena Schlosser is guilty of capital murder sent two more notes to the judge Friday in what appeared to be another attempt to break a three-day deadlock. Just before 2 p.m., the jury asked the court for definition of the word "deliberation" and clarification on the role of the jury. It was the first communication from the jury on Friday, and the 13th note sent to the court since deliberations began Wednesday.
www.dallasnews.com
www.dallasnews.com
vanillasky
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Mistrial declared in Schlosser case
A judge declared a mistrial Saturday during the fourth day of deliberations in the capital murder trial of a woman accused of fatally cutting the arms off her 10-month-old daughter.
Full story: http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/13962142.htm
A judge declared a mistrial Saturday during the fourth day of deliberations in the capital murder trial of a woman accused of fatally cutting the arms off her 10-month-old daughter.
Full story: http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/13962142.htm
aussiegran
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McKINNEY The Dena Schlosser capital murder trial ended Saturday with a hung jury.
Collin County jurors deadlocked since Wednesday had deliberated more than 40 hours Saturday with one male member of the panel firmly against the other 11, refusing to change his mind.
The Plano mother was accused of killing her 10-month-old daughter in November 2004 by severing the child's arms at the shoulders. She had pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity.
A note to the court in the Dena Schlosser capital murder case indicates that one male juror has sided against the other 11 on the panel and refuses to change his mind.
"I ... have reached a conclusion that cannot be reversed," the jury said in note 17 to the court. The juror, who signed his name but was not identified, said he reached a conclusion at the end of testimony and has not wavered.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/022506dnccoschlosser.21e9594e.html
...................................
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Collin County jurors deadlocked since Wednesday had deliberated more than 40 hours Saturday with one male member of the panel firmly against the other 11, refusing to change his mind.
The Plano mother was accused of killing her 10-month-old daughter in November 2004 by severing the child's arms at the shoulders. She had pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity.
A note to the court in the Dena Schlosser capital murder case indicates that one male juror has sided against the other 11 on the panel and refuses to change his mind.
"I ... have reached a conclusion that cannot be reversed," the jury said in note 17 to the court. The juror, who signed his name but was not identified, said he reached a conclusion at the end of testimony and has not wavered.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/022506dnccoschlosser.21e9594e.html
...................................
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
~wildangel~
Proud mom of boys!
:clap: :clap: :clap:
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
Since we've got an active "trial" discussion, I'm going to close this link. Please feel free to come and post here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36294
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36294
~wildangel~
Proud mom of boys!
This case is so disturbing...so unbelievably disturbing to me
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
Goody said:
I'm not sure what you mean Goody.
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