TX - Margaret Schlosser, 10 mos, arms cut off, dies, Plano, 22 Nov 2004 *Insanity*

[Jeana (DP)]

McKINNEY, Texas (AP) -- A judge declared a mistrial Saturday in the murder trial of a woman accused of fatally cutting the arms off her 10-month-old daughter.

Jurors deadlocked during the fourth day of deliberations in the case of Dena Schlosser, 37, who pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity.

"There was heated discussion, and tempers flared in the jury room," said juror Chris Penn as he left court. "It was a long ordeal, very tiring."

Attorneys confirmed a split of 10-2 in favor of a verdict of not guilty by reason of insanity. Penn said jurors argued "forcefully" trying to change the mind of one man, who wrote in a court note that he had made up his mind about Schlosser the first day of deliberations. Another juror could not decide, Penn added.

Prosecutors would not comment on whether they would retry the case.

Defense Attorney David Haynes said the case likely will be tried again. He added Schlosser and the defense were disappointed with the result.

"We knew this was going to be a very hard case when we started out," he said. "Hopefully, we will carry the day next time."


more at:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/02/25/schlosser.trial.ap/index.html

 

[Maybe So]

This is such a sad and disturbing case. That poor little baby.....it is too horrifying to even think about.

The mom definately needs to be in a mental facility.

The two times she ran away she probably stopped herself from hurting the baby....the time she ran away and was found on a hospital bathroom floor I think it was...should have alerted someone that the woman was looking for help of some sort.

I have a nephew diagnosed as schizophrenic ...twice when he heard voices telling him to do bad things....he begged to be taken to the hospital. He feels safer when he is confined to the hospital...he feels it will keep him from doing bad things that the voices tell him ....he knows that the voices are bad and wrong....he doesn't want to do what they tell him to. He is quite frightened when these episodes happen and he has so far always asked to be taken in to the hospital when he felt he was losing control.

So, based on my nephews behavior I think the two times the woman ran from the home it was because she was trying not to do what the voices were telling her to do. Of course I don't know this but I think it may be an explanation....especially when I hear she ran away and was found at a hospital.

I do think this woman was out of touch with reality much of the time.

She most likely should be in a mental facility as she poses a danger to herself and others and probably always will.

The picture of her is terrifying. She actually looks completely evil and deranged.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

This is such a sad and disturbing case. That poor little baby.....it is too horrifying to even think about.

The mom definately needs to be in a mental facility.

The two times she ran away she probably stopped herself from hurting the baby....the time she ran away and was found on a hospital bathroom floor I think it was...should have alerted someone that the woman was looking for help of some sort.

I have a nephew diagnosed as schizophrenic ...twice when he heard voices telling him to do bad things....he begged to be taken to the hospital. He feels safer when he is confined to the hospital...he feels it will keep him from doing bad things that the voices tell him ....he knows that the voices are bad and wrong....he doesn't want to do what they tell him to. He is quite frightened when these episodes happen and he has so far always asked to be taken in to the hospital when he felt he was losing control.

So, based on my nephews behavior I think the two times the woman ran from the home it was because she was trying not to do what the voices were telling her to do. Of course I don't know this but I think it may be an explanation....especially when I hear she ran away and was found at a hospital.

I do think this woman was out of touch with reality much of the time.

She most likely should be in a mental facility as she poses a danger to herself and others and probably always will.

The picture of her is terrifying. She actually looks completely evil and deranged.

Most people don;t understand the "voices in the head" thing unless they have a scizophrenic in the family. The persona fflicted might know the difference from right or wrong, but the need to satisfy the voices (to shut them up) can be and often is overwhelming.
It's clear this woman is crazier than a bedbug, though.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Mom should get justice

Dena Schlosser's defense attorney, David Haynes, said the jury "worked as hard as they could." If anyone acquainted with the facts seriously believes that Dena Schlosser was not insane the day she butchered her baby, then there's no point in having an insanity defense at all, writes columnist Jacquielynn Floyd. A mistrial in Schlosser's case was declared on Saturday after a jury deliberated more than 40 hours over four days to decide whether Schlosser was guilty of killing her 10-month-old daughter.


article at:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/022806dnmetfloydcol.6af5141a.html

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Plano woman faces second murder trial
DA wants judge to hear case in which Schlosser severed daughter's arms

Dena Schlosser will face a second trial in the death of her 10-month-old daughter, the Collin County district attorney said Monday.

District Attorney John Roach said prosecutors would ask state District Judge Chris Oldner at a pre-trial hearing Wednesday to decide the case instead of a jury. It will be up to Ms. Schlosser whether a jury would hear her case.

The Plano mother's capital murder trial ended in a mistrial last month when jurors deadlocked at 10-2 in favor of not guilty by reason of insanity.

"The issue now is whether Dena Schlosser and her attorneys will waive her right to a jury trial," Mr. Roach said. "If she does, the case will be submitted to the judge without a jury. If she does not waive her right to a jury trial, there will be no other choice but a full-blown jury trial. We are ready whatever their choice."

One of Ms. Schlosser's attorneys, David Haynes, said the defense hopes to decide by Wednesday's pre-trial hearing whether Ms. Schlosser will ask for a trial by judge or jury.

* * *

"And if you look at the results, she should have been found not guilty last time," he said. "The only reason she wasn't was because one juror made up his mind before the whole thing started."


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/031406dnccoschlosser.20d25fd6.html

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Plano woman faces second murder trial
DA wants judge to hear case in which Schlosser severed daughter's arms

Dena Schlosser will face a second trial in the death of her 10-month-old daughter, the Collin County district attorney said Monday.

District Attorney John Roach said prosecutors would ask state District Judge Chris Oldner at a pre-trial hearing Wednesday to decide the case instead of a jury. It will be up to Ms. Schlosser whether a jury would hear her case.

The Plano mother's capital murder trial ended in a mistrial last month when jurors deadlocked at 10-2 in favor of not guilty by reason of insanity.

"The issue now is whether Dena Schlosser and her attorneys will waive her right to a jury trial," Mr. Roach said. "If she does, the case will be submitted to the judge without a jury. If she does not waive her right to a jury trial, there will be no other choice but a full-blown jury trial. We are ready whatever their choice."

One of Ms. Schlosser's attorneys, David Haynes, said the defense hopes to decide by Wednesday's pre-trial hearing whether Ms. Schlosser will ask for a trial by judge or jury.

* * *

"And if you look at the results, she should have been found not guilty last time," he said. "The only reason she wasn't was because one juror made up his mind before the whole thing started."


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/031406dnccoschlosser.20d25fd6.html

Why the hell are they trying this again and not pleading it out?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Why the hell are they trying this again and not pleading it out?

Same mindset as the Andrea Yates prosecutor. Some people have a hard time accepting mental illness. I have a feeling this prosecutor may be in that category. Or, worried about what the voters who have a problem with it would think about that.

I have an opinion that's probably going to anger some people, but if you're married to someone whom you KNOW to be mentally unstable, why would you intentionally have multiple children with that person? In this case, as the Andrea Yates case, lunatic preachers too involved with the lives of those involved has something to do with it, but GEEZUS. Its hard to wrap my mind around why parents would leave their kids alone with these parents who they KNOW are unstable.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Schlosser hearing postponed


A pre-trial hearing in the Dena Schlosser capital murder case set for this morning was postponed until next week.

The hearing, which was postponed because of another trial, will likely determine whether Ms. Schlosser's second capital murder trial will be heard by a judge or jury. The hearing will now be March 23.


* * *


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/031606dnmetschlosser.29bb7832.html

 

[cynpat2000]

She had been accused of child neglect a short time before al this????why wasnt she monitored by child protection and where was the father ????him and rusty yates were they even thinking this case is gut wrenching and heart breaking beyond belief!!!!!!!!!!!that little baby never had a chance and noone fought for it,not even her own father and its sad,sickening.were the other 2 girls in the house I hope that they didnt witness one second of this...my heart is breaking for these little children.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

She had been accused of child neglect a short time before al this????why wasnt she monitored by child protection and where was the father ????him and rusty yates were they even thinking this case is gut wrenching and heart breaking beyond belief!!!!!!!!!!!that little baby never had a chance and noone fought for it,not even her own father and its sad,sickening.were the other 2 girls in the house I hope that they didnt witness one second of this...my heart is breaking for these little children.

I agree. The other kids were at school while this happened, thank God.

 

[cathieq]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3762264.html

Dena Schlosser has been diagnosed with a brain tumor. Alittle more info on why it was kept out of the trial is at the above link.

Brain tumors, depending on their location, can have a horrible effect on one's behavior. The article says it is cancerous, though in reality all brain tumors are cancer, some are just contained as in a meningioma or "cancerous", meaning they aren't contained and have spread to surrounding areas. Actually, because I am so aware of brain tumors, I would have thought it would be one of the first things looked for (as in a MRI) when one's psychological self is being questioned.

 

[Annie]

It is too bad that it wasn't discovered before that baby was killed. Maybe it would have prevented it. What a tragedy!

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Same mindset as the Andrea Yates prosecutor. Some people have a hard time accepting mental illness. I have a feeling this prosecutor may be in that category. Or, worried about what the voters who have a problem with it would think about that.

I have an opinion that's probably going to anger some people, but if you're married to someone whom you KNOW to be mentally unstable, why would you intentionally have multiple children with that person? In this case, as the Andrea Yates case, lunatic preachers too involved with the lives of those involved has something to do with it, but GEEZUS. Its hard to wrap my mind around why parents would leave their kids alone with these parents who they KNOW are unstable.

That kind of assumes the other person in the relationship isn't somewhat loony as well.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3762264.html

Dena Schlosser has been diagnosed with a brain tumor. Alittle more info on why it was kept out of the trial is at the above link.

Brain tumors, depending on their location, can have a horrible effect on one's behavior. The article says it is cancerous, though in reality all brain tumors are cancer, some are just contained as in a meningioma or "cancerous", meaning they aren't contained and have spread to surrounding areas. Actually, because I am so aware of brain tumors, I would have thought it would be one of the first things looked for (as in a MRI) when one's psychological self is being questioned.

For crying out loud! Given the size of this woman's brain tumor and it's location, she'll be dead in a year or two. If the DA goes ahead with this prosecution he's a major jackass.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Schlosser's brain tumor is inoperable
Lawyer, experts debate whether it played a part in child slaying


No one knew during Dena Schlosser's capital murder trial that she had a life-threatening tumor at the base of her skull.

Jurors heard about a "shadow" on a scan of her brain, but neither doctors nor her attorneys realized the seriousness of what they now know is an inoperable brain tumor.

Ms. Schlosser's attorney, David Haynes, said the tumor on her pituitary gland could have contributed to her hallucinations the day she severed her baby's arms at the shoulders.

"Could this be related to Dena's actions on Nov. 22, 2004? I think so, but there is no way to prove it for sure," Mr. Haynes said. "Looking back on it now, it would have been great if we could have had this for the trial."

It is uncertain whether Ms. Schlosser had the tumor when she killed 10-month-old Maggie Schlosser with the largest knife in the kitchen at the family's Plano apartment.

The case ended in a mistrial after jurors deadlocked 10-2 in favor of not guilty by reason of insanity, eventually leaving the decision to state District Judge Chris Oldner.

The judge heard the new evidence about the tumor last week and will announce a verdict in the second trial Friday. The judge can find Ms. Schlosser guilty and send her to prison for life, or not guilty by reason of insanity and send her to a state mental hospital until he agrees she should be released.

To prove insanity in Texas, the defense must show Ms. Schlosser had a mental disease or defect that caused her not to know right from wrong. Three psychiatrists testified during the first trial that they believed Ms. Schlosser was insane when she killed Maggie.


more at:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/040406dnmetschlosser.cd8ee8b.html

 

[Annie]

Whatever they do, KEEP HER AWAY FROM KIDS!!!

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

I suspect the judge will have her committed for the rest of her natural life. I've had friends with brain tumors. They radically alter a person's behavior, whether they are inoperable or not.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I suspect the judge will have her committed for the rest of her natural life. I've had friends with brain tumors. They radically alter a person's behavior, whether they are inoperable or not.

I suspect that you're right, she'll spend the rest of her natural life in a mental institution, but they can't say that right now. The law doesn't provide for that. The wording is a major part of the problem jurors have with accepting an insanity defense. They can only sentence them to a mental institution until such time as a judge determines that she is no longer a danger to herself or society, which, as we suspect, may never happen in this case. However, they must leave that window open.

I'm not sure, but is this tumor a terminal illness??

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

I suspect that you're right, she'll spend the rest of her natural life in a mental institution, but they can't say that right now. The law doesn't provide for that. The wording is a major part of the problem jurors have with accepting an insanity defense. They can only sentence them to a mental institution until such time as a judge determines that she is no longer a danger to herself or society, which, as we suspect, may never happen in this case. However, they must leave that window open.

I'm not sure, but is this tumor a terminal illness??

All brain cancers eventually prove terminal, due to the fact there isn't much room inside the skull for continued growth/swelling. Depending on where a tumor starts growing, it will eventually start pinching off/hindering blood flow to other parts of the brain. One of the first tell-tale signs of a brain tumor is sudden, uncontrollable vertigo, which is eventually followed by seizures and anywhere from temporary to total paralysis. Sometimes it mimics a stroke, other times it can appear as dementia. If it gets into the forebrain, the ability for cognitive thought rapdily erodes (such as the ability to read and write or hold lengthy conversations), as does emotional control (fits of rage, weeping, manic episodes,etc.) long term memory (a lot of brain cancer patients can't remember who a pearson is unless they're looking right at them), and hallucinations. I watched a close friend die this wayin less than 10 months--it was horrific.

 

[cathieq]

For those who are interested in learning more about this type of tumor:

http://tinyurl.com/f3fsf

I want to stress that tumors affect each and every person in a different way, especially if the tumor has metastized (invaded other areas). This is not mentioned in the article, whether it is contained to one specific area or not. I'm assuming that it's contained since they have adopted a "wait-and-see" approach. Hormones have profound effects on the development of the brain and on adult brain function. Since pituitary tumors affect hormone secretion which, in turn, affect other organs in our body, wouldn't it be safe to assume that this tumor most probably did contribute to her mental state?

I'm not attempting to excuse her behavior. Knowledge of the brain tumor affords us just one large piece of the puzzle, but it does give us some insight into her behavior.