TX - Mass Shooting at Fort Hood, 5 November 2009 #2 *Guilty*

[Velouria]

what a creep -- apparently held so much hate for Americans that he could kill soldiers & civilians at Ft. Hood, but not so much hate when it came to getting lap dances. ugh.

<snip>

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Saw that too, Texas Mist. One more thing he had in common with the 9/11 hijackers. Hypocrites.

I love where the article mentions he had trouble finding a wife willing to comply with the restrictions of a devout muslim lifestyle, i.e. wearing the full hijab, etc.. Not surprising when you read he was spending 6 or 7 hours at the strip club, for cryin' out loud.

 

[nursebeeme]

Lap dances, tips and drinks for everyone... just like a devout muslim uke: .

in the 9/11 commission report they said that the terrorists went to strip clubs too... maybe he was trying to be just like them?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I refuse. I refuse to speak his name or to call him a terrorist. Yes, he took terroristic actions, but I think he was more of a terrorist whannabe. I don't credit him with the term terrorist because I don't think that killed for his religion or his ideals. And because I won't give him that much 'credit.' I just call him a murderer. I think he killed because he didn't like his life, he wanted out and he wanted someone to look at him as being brave and to give him 'glory', and I don't think he was brave or glorious. Somehow I suspect that other Islamists don't either. Some will regret what he did. And even the more extremist will laugh at him, that he couldn't even attain 'glory' because he lived.

If he had been a 'terrorist' he would have gone for training, he would have gone to join the people he identified with he would have wanted to be there to protect them. Or he would have gone AWOL and moved there to practice his profession. Instead he fought going there, and when that failed, he set out to punish the ones that he saw as victimizing him.

I don't see him as any more of a terrorist than the other criminals that we see here. Think Columbine and other school shootings. Think workplace shootings. He was unhappy with his life and he decided to punish. That's what it reminds me of. He was a coward though. He wouldn't go to battle, instead he chose a group that he knew were unarmed and unable to retaliate against him. Just like the other criminals we have seen.

I am tickled that he didn't die from his injuries. Instead he will brought up before a jury of his betters, he will suffer the humiliation of facing his mother and seeing his actions and his future in her eyes. He will suffer the humiliation of prison and confinement. And he will live knowing that every day he is one more day closer to the death penalty.

I don't hold Islamists responsible for what he did. But I do hold any of them who discussed this with him or who heard him talking about this responsible. Or if they had preached this in temple. And I hope they do a very careful investigation of the mosque that he belonged to. It is a mighty coincidence that he attended the same mosque that the 9/11 killers used. There placement there was carefully considered, and now there was another one.

Well I am not going to hold back one bit on my opinion. IMO, I do think he is a terrorist personified! And for one lone terrorist he was able to do a considerable amount of damage. We see suicide bombers that fail to kill this many at one time or leave this many injured.

He has to qualify each and every year in the Army to stay proficient on the M16 and handgun. He not only did that but he purchased his own personal weapons and target practiced. BUT even a novice holding two weapons that can fire multiple times into a very huge crowd of unsuspecting people doesn't take expertise anyway. Imo, he has been carefully planning this since August.

Imo HIS Muslim faith and how he perceived it is the catalyst that threw this planned mission into action. He admired the suicide bombers. They were his heroes so he thought of himself as one of them when he did these reprehensible acts against innocent people. Imo to him he sees US as the infidels and he thinks he will reach martyrdom which already the militants are hailing his deplorable deeds as heroic.:furious:

This was an attack on America and what we stand for and who we fight against when it comes to terrorism.

Even if deployed he would have never done battle. That was not his MOS and he wouldn't be on the front lines but he knew that others would be foot soldiers and killing the Muslims, which he thinks has more worth than his own armed service, imo.

I don't hold other Muslims in this country responsible unless it becomes known he had ties with radical groups within the USA. I hold this ONE Muslim responsible though and it is because of his extreme radical views and hatred of Americans that brought this to fruition.

imo

 

[Muffet]

"U.S. intelligence agencies were aware months ago that Army Major Nidal Hasan was attempting to make contact with people associated with al Qaeda, two American officials briefed on classified material in the case told ABC News." http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fort-...l-qaeda-terrorists-officials/story?id=9030873

That article is the most disturbing thing I've read since this event occurred. It appears our intelligence agencies are refusing to share their intelligence with people who need to know.

Who and what else are they keeping under wraps?

Not that I think the Army didn't have more than enough of their own evidence to act on... I wonder if they were all well aware and just thought he would be safe to keep an eye on. If so, they should all be sacked.

 

[Muffet]

Photos and hometowns of six of the victims:

Spc. Jason Dean Hunt, 22, of Frederick, Okla.
Sgt. Amy Krueger, 29, of Kiel, Wis.
Pfc. Aaron Thomas Nemelka, 19, of West Jordan, Utah
Pfc. Michael Pearson, 21, of Bolingbrook, Ill.
Russell Seager, 51, of Racine, Wis.
Francheska Velez, 21, of Chicago
Source​

May they rest in peace and their families find solace.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Lap dances, tips and drinks for everyone... just like a devout muslim uke: .

Social Studies class - Oh these aweful, sinful Americans. Let's hurry home and wrap our women in blankets and cover their heads - right after we get our lap dance.

 

[MissieMt]

I refuse. I refuse to speak his name or to call him a terrorist. Yes, he took terroristic actions, but I think he was more of a terrorist whannabe. I don't credit him with the term terrorist because I don't think that killed for his religion or his ideals. And because I won't give him that much 'credit.' I just call him a murderer. I think he killed because he didn't like his life, he wanted out and he wanted someone to look at him as being brave and to give him 'glory', and I don't think he was brave or glorious. Somehow I suspect that other Islamists don't either. Some will regret what he did. And even the more extremist will laugh at him, that he couldn't even attain 'glory' because he lived.

If he had been a 'terrorist' he would have gone for training, he would have gone to join the people he identified with he would have wanted to be there to protect them. Or he would have gone AWOL and moved there to practice his profession. Instead he fought going there, and when that failed, he set out to punish the ones that he saw as victimizing him.

I don't see him as any more of a terrorist than the other criminals that we see here. Think Columbine and other school shootings. Think workplace shootings. He was unhappy with his life and he decided to punish. That's what it reminds me of. He was a coward though. He wouldn't go to battle, instead he chose a group that he knew were unarmed and unable to retaliate against him. Just like the other criminals we have seen.

I am tickled that he didn't die from his injuries. Instead he will brought up before a jury of his betters, he will suffer the humiliation of facing his mother and seeing his actions and his future in her eyes. He will suffer the humiliation of prison and confinement. And he will live knowing that every day he is one more day closer to the death penalty.

I don't hold Islamists responsible for what he did. But I do hold any of them who discussed this with him or who heard him talking about this responsible. Or if they had preached this in temple. And I hope they do a very careful investigation of the mosque that he belonged to. It is a mighty coincidence that he attended the same mosque that the 9/11 killers used. There placement there was carefully considered, and now there was another one.

ter&#8901;ror&#8901;ist

&#8194; –noun
1. a person, usually a member of a group, who uses or advocates terrorism.
2. a person who terrorizes or frightens others.
3. (formerly) a member of a political group in Russia aiming at the demoralization of the government by terror.
4. an agent or partisan of the revolutionary tribunal during the Reign of Terror in France.
–adjective
5. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of terrorism or terrorists: terrorist tactics.

 

[Muffet]

-respectfully snipped-

I don't hold Islamists responsible for what he did. But I do hold any of them who discussed this with him or who heard him talking about this responsible. Or if they had preached this in temple. And I hope they do a very careful investigation of the mosque that he belonged to. It is a mighty coincidence that he attended the same mosque that the 9/11 killers used. There placement there was carefully considered, and now there was another one.

I agree, mysteriew. However, I would clarify terms to say that I don't hold all Muslims responsible. I do hold all Islamists responsible, since they're regarded as the militant/fundamentalist wing of Islam.

I also think some responsibility is shared by people of any persuasion who continue to deny and obfuscate who and what the enemy is, whether for the sake of political correctness or "Ummah."

We all know about PC - here are some excerpts from a must-read article, written by a moderate Muslim, explaining the problem of Ummah:

-snip-
Part of the problem is that many Muslims are clinging to the notion of an “ummah,” or “community,” with a capital “U,” a view that inhibits dissent and encourages blind loyalty to a global Islam.

In that struggle, we whitewash the truth of men like Hasan responding defensively, rejecting any links to Islamic teachings and, ultimately, I believe, denying the reality of a radicalized ideology of Islam that sanctions violence.

-snip-

In the midst of the many conversations he had with Hasan, Akhter stood outside the Muslim Community Center, distributing photocopies of a Washington Post article about an Afghan mother who tried to stop her radicalized son from carrying out a suicide bombing; the bomb exploded in the family’s home, killing the mother, her son, and her three other children. In a later email to mosque members, he urged them, “Let us wake up,” and take note of who are “potential terrorists, who are fanatics, who are fundamentalists” in the community.

No one in the [moderate Muslim - muffet] mosque responded with concerns about Hasan’s extremist views. Rather, when he had distributed the newspaper article, Akther said, a member of the mosque yelled at him, charging him with causing “fitna” in the ummah.
[...]

Full article​

 

[nursebeeme]

on national public radio (i am listening right now)

Hasan is alert and awake and talking with authorities right now...

 

[hockeymom]

Whats interesting is how Hasan's family keeps saying how "nonviolent" he is and how he didn't even like to go to the shooting range. And what a great American he is. Either they didn't know him at all or they are hiding the truth.

 

[mysteriew]

ter&#8901;ror&#8901;ist

&#8194; –noun
1. a person, usually a member of a group, who uses or advocates terrorism.
2. a person who terrorizes or frightens others.
3. (formerly) a member of a political group in Russia aiming at the demoralization of the government by terror.
4. an agent or partisan of the revolutionary tribunal during the Reign of Terror in France.
–adjective
5. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of terrorism or terrorists: terrorist tactics.

The most I will admit to him is that he might be a terrorist wanna be. What he is is actually just another common criminal. And what he did is nothing new. He got his hands on a weapon and started shooting. He doesn't inspire fear, just anger. He doesn't demoralize, he just inspires more patriotism and more determination. He doesn't inspire others to become Islamic, instead he causes more hatred against his own.

 

[Reannan]

I like to look at the facts: People who fly planes into the twin towers, people who strap suicide vest on and kill theirself along with innocent bystanders, people who drive car bombs into crowded markets, people who place suicide vest on mentally challenged people - including children - and then detonate them with remote control, people who walk into a room of dedicated soldiers KNOWING THEY ARE UNARMED......they all have one thing in common - their religion; Islam. You can deny it until the cows come home, but it is the truth, and it will stand when the world is on fire. I cannot think of any excuse that will make me believe that Islam is a peacful religion. I don't but it, and I am sick and tired of being politically correct. Being politically correct is one of the reasons the Ft. Hood tragedy happened.

 

[MissieMt]

The most I will admit to him is that he might be a terrorist wanna be. What he is is actually just another common criminal. And what he did is nothing new. He got his hands on a weapon and started shooting. He doesn't inspire fear, just anger. He doesn't demoralize, he just inspires more patriotism and more determination. He doesn't inspire others to become Islamic, instead he causes more hatred against his own.

So you don't think anyone in that building was frightened or terrorized?
You don't think he advocated terrorism by saying suicide bombers are no worse than American soldiers who throw themselves on bombs to save their fellow soldiers?

And if you look at Lizzybeths post #56 on this thread....he may not be inspiring NEW people to become Islamic, but he is already inspiring those who have a terrorist mindset and I'm not sure which is worse.

 

[Columbo]

I like to look at the facts: People who fly planes into the twin towers, people who strap suicide vest on and kill theirself along with innocent bystanders, people who drive car bombs into crowded markets, people who place suicide vest on mentally challenged people - including children - and then detonate them with remote control, people who walk into a room of dedicated soldiers KNOWING THEY ARE UNARMED......they all have one thing in common - their religion; Islam. You can deny it until the cows come home, but it is the truth, and it will stand when the world is on fire. I cannot think of any excuse that will make me believe that Islam is a peacful religion. I don't but it, and I am sick and tired of being politically correct. Being politically correct is one of the reasons the Ft. Hood tragedy happened.

Those are the terrorists who happen to be Muslim. We also have domestic terrorists who aren't Muslims, like the kids who shot up Columbine HS, whoever bombed the Murrah building in OK (not convinced Timothy McVeigh acted alone), and on and on, ad infinitem--seems like there are new ones every day. In my mind, they are all terrorists.

I agree that there is an element to Islam that does promote viciousness and warfare. There certainly is an irony that Islam means Submission, deriving from a word that means "Peace", and yet there is that part of it which promotes fighting and killing. But there has been an awful lot of killing and destruction by Christians, among others. I have a feeling that those Muslims --most of them--who come to the U.S. want to have their religion without the fighting, killing, and war.

There is a big need to be politically correct, and I agree, that is why this Ft. Hood incident ever happened. Sickening. I'm sure that's why they let this guy slide.

If you want to get a firsthand scoop on Islam, a good book to read is Infidel, by Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She was born a Muslim and tried to get out of this religion. Now she lives in constant fear for her life. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidel_(book)

 

[Woe.be.gone]

That article is the most disturbing thing I've read since this event occurred. It appears our intelligence agencies are refusing to share their intelligence with people who need to know.

Who and what else are they keeping under wraps?

Not that I think the Army didn't have more than enough of their own evidence to act on... I wonder if they were all well aware and just thought he would be safe to keep an eye on. If so, they should all be sacked.

They may have been paying attention to him hoping to find the bigger fish to fry; they had no direct evidence that he would individually act out this way.

So many crimes that are committed have prior warnings and signals surrounding the perp (like a violent husband who kills his wife) yet, despite all the prior clues, the crime is carried out. Nothing is done to successfully thwart it. What is it going to take for us to become proactive in these types of situations? Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

 

[songline]

What? What's your point?

We are CREATED equal. We don't all behave equally as demonstrated by this shooter who decided to take decent people from their earthly lives which was not his decision to make. Don't compare all people to him as most of us would never do such a thing EVER. Most of us want to help other people to be happier, to live in harmony and to assist in their comfort. Most of us want to see life lived to old age and problems conquered by thinking and evolving toward better ideas, tolerance and education. Most of us are not contemplating how to infiltrate and take over other peoples' countries for purposes of harming them if unprovoked. When provoked, most of us want to protect what is ours - and have every right to do so.

What's your cause? What don't you understand about human nature? Do you think every action can be justified?

Explain where you are coming from please. We all have free will - most of us don't use it to intentionally harm others.

His soul will be judged. God does not judge equally. Some will be first and some will be last and some will burn in Hell.

We are only created equal at birth, the indoctrination one gets after that is what shapes their belief and actions.
fundamentalists are trained from a very young age 3-4 years old to hate, kill and fight every single infidel = every single one who is not Muslim. That takes them right out of the equation of equal, and I find it very offensive that anyone cant see how much pretending that they are equal is dangerous to our moral fiber as a Nation.
NO not equal at all, NO they do not deserve equal consideration.

When only 10% of the Muslims are honorable unfortunately we have to consider the rest of the population, and giving them a pass is not smart, there is no accident that most of Europe calls us the "Stupid Americans"

I have pictures of the way their young are trained but I have no idea how to insert a picture here every time I try it comes up blank. It is not like a simple cut & paste here...I think I need to learn this site better....LOL

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I like to look at the facts: People who fly planes into the twin towers, people who strap suicide vest on and kill theirself along with innocent bystanders, people who drive car bombs into crowded markets, people who place suicide vest on mentally challenged people - including children - and then detonate them with remote control, people who walk into a room of dedicated soldiers KNOWING THEY ARE UNARMED......they all have one thing in common - their religion; Islam. You can deny it until the cows come home, but it is the truth, and it will stand when the world is on fire. I cannot think of any excuse that will make me believe that Islam is a peacful religion. I don't but it, and I am sick and tired of being politically correct. Being politically correct is one of the reasons the Ft. Hood tragedy happened.

A thought - did God ever instruct people to go and burn down something or to kill people? I'm trying to recall. I don't think so but he warned His people when something bad was about to happen - like get out of there and take this and that with you or build an Ark and save the animals and Noah was faithful and did what God told him to do. (side note, Johan Huibers, in the Netherlands, has built the Ark to the specifications set out in the Bible). It's a sight to see - on the internet.

On the other hand, God has been known to enact some devasting happenings but He is God and that is His right. I'm thinking (imo this concept is under taught) we should fear God (yes, fear due to our irreverence) and straighten up our acts and pray for His protection while seeking His wisdom individually in our own lives. He has never "told" me to go do something wrong/bad to another person. Whenever I've sensed Him communicating to me the message has been toward understanding and compelling me to help someone else. Why would a whole subculture of people set forth to destroy others and call it God's will? Are they setting any kind of example as to how life could be better for all people? God reaches into hearts individually and ultimately represents love; even though He is all things. In no way (obviously) am I a Biblical expert but I try to understand life and think I have a good handle on right from wrong.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

We are only created equal at birth, the indoctrination one gets after that is what shapes their belief and actions.
fundamentalists are trained from a very young age 3-4 years old to hate, kill and fight every single infidel = every single one who is not Muslim. That takes them right out of the equation of equal, and I find it very offensive that anyone cant see how much pretending that they are equal is dangerous to our moral fiber as a Nation.
NO not equal at all, NO they do not deserve equal consideration.

When only 10% of the Muslims are honorable unfortunately we have to consider the rest of the population, and giving them a pass is not smart, there is no accident that most of Europe calls us the "Stupid Americans"

I have pictures of the way their young are trained but I have no idea how to insert a picture here every time I try it comes up blank. It is not like a simple cut & paste here...I think I need to learn this site better....LOL

Please allow me to expand upon your good points - Created equal; not raised equal. People are created with free will it's true. If the bully stands over them from day one what choices do they end up having?

That is why the U.S. (and NATO - at least today) is over there to try to thwart the society from being taken over by the radical mindset. That is the argument behind why it is worth fighting for the democratization of the region. People there want/need free choice too but are being supressed - strong armed if you will. Europe endures attacks and is suffering too. I'm not sure that "most of Europe" calls us "the Stupid Americans" but maybe some do. How can we measure that? IMO they have it in their heads that we think we are better than other people/countries but, for the most part, Americans do not think that way at all (at least I don't).

 

[songline]

Please allow me to expand upon your good points - Created equal; not raised equal. People are created with free will it's true. If the bully stands over them from day one what choices do they end up having?

That is why the U.S. (and NATO - at least today) is over there to try to thwart the society from being taken over by the radical mindset. That is the argument behind why it is worth fighting for the democratization of the region. People there want/need free choice too but are being supressed - strong armed if you will. Europe endures attacks and is suffering too. I'm not sure that "most of Europe" calls us "the Stupid Americans" but maybe some do. How can we measure that? IMO they have it in their heads that we think we are better than other people/countries but, for the most part, Americans do not think that way at all (at least I don't).

well we are not not fighting the newborns who are indeed created equal. the people we need to stop are no longer equal they are demons to society. PERIOD.
we can not tell those people how to raise their own, we can hope that the 10% Muslims who are of sound mind can do that.
Unfortunately they can not.
THE REST (90%) are not interested in learning anything at all from the infidel, they just want to kill them...
compassion is misplaced here, they want us dead we are the infidel. we do not have time to stroke these animals.
there is no time that is the right time to let them into our armed services.
I have traveled many countries, and yes "Americans" are considered very stupid. I do not wonder why any more.
I stopped wondering in the year 2000.

 

[songline]

A thought - did God ever instruct people to go and burn down something or to kill people? I'm trying to recall. I don't think so but he warned His people when something bad was about to happen - like get out of there and take this and that with you or build an Ark and save the animals and Noah was faithful and did what God told him to do. (side note, Johan Huibers, in the Netherlands, has built the Ark to the specifications set out in the Bible). It's a sight to see - on the internet.

On the other hand, God has been known to enact some devasting happenings but He is God and that is His right. I'm thinking (imo this concept is under taught) we should fear God (yes, fear due to our irreverence) and straighten up our acts and pray for His protection while seeking His wisdom individually in our own lives. He has never "told" me to go do something wrong/bad to another person. Whenever I've sensed Him communicating to me the message has been toward understanding and compelling me to help someone else. Why would a whole subculture of people set forth to destroy others and call it God's will? Are they setting any kind of example as to how life could be better for all people? God reaches into hearts individually and ultimately represents love; even though He is all things. In no way (obviously) am I a Biblical expert but I try to understand life and think I have a good handle on right from wrong.

I too have asked so many why's....
Why did Cane kill his brother Able? they were the first offspring from Adam & Eve....nobody bullied them...
Seems to me that right out of the gate; early on in the bible this was happening.
I still want to know WHY...
It was Jealousy from the start, because Able did bring a very generous offering to God, While Cain's offering was meger and that caused him to be jealous/mad as hell. THAT IS NO EXCUSE.
all we learned from that is how to make excuses.

I do not think God answers all our WHY's but I do think he made it clear that he will always put temptation in front of us and it is within us to find the courage to do right in the eyes of GOD/universal Law.
It was supposed to develop us into stronger, better, and more spiritual beings.
Later on GOD gave us the 10 commandments as a code of behaviour, and even with this great guideline people still don't behave right.
When God warned people that something bad was coming, he always did a cleansing, the flood was a cleansing.....
But right now I think that God is angry...Very angry because at large, men has not taken the high road. Men has taken the road of Greed and self serving. I think we are having hard times now because it is time to get it right or he will again do a cleansing.