Found Deceased TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #2

[KeepTheLightOn]

Here is some interesting info from dhhs,Texas.gov
https://dshs.texas.gov/vs/handbooks/death/chapter-2.doc
Please take a moment to check out this page. It has some valuable info. Here are the contents of this document.

CONTENTS​

Certifying Death​0
General Information​0
Deaths Certified by the Attending Physician​1
Deaths Certified by the Medical Examiner or Justice of the Peace​2
Deaths Certified by the County Judge​2
Death of a Child Less than Six (6) Years of Age​3
Unidentified Persons​3
If remains are found​3
Missing or Unrecognizable Remains​3
Confidentiality of Information​4
Penalties​4
Instructions for Completing a Certificate of Death​5
General Instructions for Death Certificates​5
Death Certificate Paper Specifications​

For those of you with legal experience, can you clarify this? As I read this document, it states that a death must be certified by an Attending Physician, Medical Examiner, Justice of the Peace or County Judge. Each one of these has its own restrictions.
Once a death has been certified, the next step is to get a death certificate. According to this document, "The death certificate must be filed electronically, as specified by the state registrar, by the person in charge of interment or disposition, or by the person in charge of removing the body from the registration district for disposition [HSC 193.002]. In Addition the person completing the medical certification shall submit the information and attest to its validity using by electronic process specified by the state registrar.[HSC 193.005(h)]. This electronic processes is Texas Electronic Death Registration". (BBM)


I am reading this to mean that first you get the death certified and then you get the certificate. And, only certain people can do this. Is that correct?

Our VI, Pmerle00, has stated that the form (she does not refer to it as a death certificate) was signed off by Sheriff Meeks and a judge.
Here is one of her statements: Thread 1, post 1428, page 96. Posted by Pmerle00.
"I updated my previous post, but wanted to stress: the "certificate" received was not a death certificate, but was a Letter of Testamentary, which required announcements in papers and the pension board. Yes, that type of letter is typically obtained when a person dies and an executor needs to settle an estate, but there are other applications, such as this one."


Based on the information above from the Texas government, how did Sheriff Meeks sign off on the death certificate? I don't know if Pmerle00 has seen the certificate, so maybe BC misquoted when she told Pmerle00 who signed off on this form.


I have never understood the rush to get a death certificate. I read Thread 1 again last night. Pmerle00 states several times that they were financially solid. If BC has evidence of Mr. Chamber's death, I hope it has been shared with his entire family.

 

[KeepTheLightOn]

In reading Thread 1, I came across an interesting comment by Pmerle00. She is responding to a post from Razz. This is dated 7/13/2017, page 74, post 1096.

Originally Posted by Razz
But the FBI and the Texas Rangers were there! They also had Texas EquuSearch and an underwater sonar company come out. I'm thinking the family is set on MC being abducted and taken away.

Could be. But there are other theories they're not looking at and maybe they should be. But then, that's real easy for me to say.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

This is the post from Pmerle00:

TX Rangers came in for a consult, but said they wouldn't get involved without a criminal case conversion. FBI has also said their hands are tied unless HCSO invites them or calls it criminal.

This my opinion:
Unless HCSO invites them? Is that correct? If so, by all means let's invite them! What is HCSO waiting for? BBM

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Here is some interesting info from dhhs,Texas.gov
https://dshs.texas.gov/vs/handbooks/death/chapter-2.doc
Please take a moment to check out this page. It has some valuable info. Here are the contents of this document.

-RSBM for space-

For those of you with legal experience, can you clarify this? As I read this document, it states that a death must be certified by an Attending Physician, Medical Examiner, Justice of the Peace or County Judge. Each one of these has its own restrictions.
Once a death has been certified, the next step is to get a death certificate. According to this document, "The death certificate must be filed electronically, as specified by the state registrar, by the person in charge of interment or disposition, or by the person in charge of removing the body from the registration district for disposition [HSC 193.002]. In Addition the person completing the medical certification shall submit the information and attest to its validity using by electronic process specified by the state registrar.[HSC 193.005(h)]. This electronic processes is Texas Electronic Death Registration". (BBM)


I am reading this to mean that first you get the death certified and then you get the certificate. And, only certain people can do this. Is that correct?

Our VI, Pmerle00, has stated that the form (she does not refer to it as a death certificate) was signed off by Sheriff Meeks and a judge.
Here is one of her statements: Thread 1, post 1428, page 96. Posted by Pmerle00.
"I updated my previous post, but wanted to stress: the "certificate" received was not a death certificate, but was a Letter of Testamentary, which required announcements in papers and the pension board. Yes, that type of letter is typically obtained when a person dies and an executor needs to settle an estate, but there are other applications, such as this one."


Based on the information above from the Texas government, how did Sheriff Meeks sign off on the death certificate? I don't know if Pmerle00 has seen the certificate, so maybe BC misquoted when she told Pmerle00 who signed off on this form.

I have never understood the rush to get a death certificate. I read Thread 1 again last night. Pmerle00 states several times that they were financially solid. If BC has evidence of Mr. Chamber's death, I hope it has been shared with his entire family.

Thank you for your informative post, KTLO. Yes, we very much need a verified attorney to help us out on this thread!

I just wanted to share my thoughts as a layperson:

From your post above:
"For those of you with legal experience, can you clarify this? As I read this document, it states that a death must be certified by an Attending Physician, Medical Examiner, Justice of the Peace or County Judge."
and also:
"I am reading this to mean that first you get the death certified and then you get the certificate. And, only certain people can do this. Is that correct? "

Based on the information at the link you provided at the top of your post, indeed, those are the only people who can certify a death, IMO, but only when there is a body.

One example:
"If the death is by natural causes, the cause of death section of the death certificate should be completed and signed by the physician that was responsible for the care and treatment of the condition or disease process that contributed to the death."

And another example:
"Notify the medical examiner or justice of the peace for an investigation or inquest and cause of death certification if law enforcement or someone else has not already done so if any of the following circumstances exist [HSC 193.005, CCP Art. 49.04, CCP Art. 49.25 Sec. 6]:
• A body was found and the cause and circumstances of the death are unknown.
• The death is believed to be an unnatural death from a cause other than a legal execution (accident, suicide, or homicide).
-SBM for space-"

On the third page of the document you cited, there is a section titled, "MISSING OR UNRECOGNIZABLE REMAINS," which states (BBM):
"Before any certificate can be filed, the person must be declared dead by a District Court in Texas. VSU is not aware of any statute that specifies a time period to wait before having someone declared legally dead. The District Judge makes the determination based on the evidence presented to the court. If a court order is obtained, a Court-Ordered Delayed Certificate of Death must be presented to the County Probate Court Judge in duplicate. The date of death on these types of forms may be completed to show "Presumed" or "Declared" dead with the date the judge determines to be the date of death. Once the Court-Ordered Delayed Certificates of Death are signed by the judge, one copy should be filed with the county clerk and the other copy with State VSU.

Looking at PaPaw's estate probate case history, it appears this is exactly how PaPaw was declared deceased and his certificate of death was issued:

 

[KeepTheLightOn]

Thank you for your informative post, KTLO. Yes, we very much need a verified attorney to help us out on this thread!

I just wanted to share my thoughts as a layperson:

From your post above:
"For those of you with legal experience, can you clarify this? As I read this document, it states that a death must be certified by an Attending Physician, Medical Examiner, Justice of the Peace or County Judge."
and also:
"I am reading this to mean that first you get the death certified and then you get the certificate. And, only certain people can do this. Is that correct? "

Based on the information at the link you provided at the top of your post, indeed, those are the only people who can certify a death, IMO, but only when there is a body.

One example:
"If the death is by natural causes, the cause of death section of the death certificate should be completed and signed by the physician that was responsible for the care and treatment of the condition or disease process that contributed to the death."

And another example:
"Notify the medical examiner or justice of the peace for an investigation or inquest and cause of death certification if law enforcement or someone else has not already done so if any of the following circumstances exist [HSC 193.005, CCP Art. 49.04, CCP Art. 49.25 Sec. 6]:
• A body was found and the cause and circumstances of the death are unknown.
• The death is believed to be an unnatural death from a cause other than a legal execution (accident, suicide, or homicide).
-SBM for space-"

On the third page of the document you cited, there is a section titled, "MISSING OR UNRECOGNIZABLE REMAINS," which states (BBM):
"Before any certificate can be filed, the person must be declared dead by a District Court in Texas. VSU is not aware of any statute that specifies a time period to wait before having someone declared legally dead. The District Judge makes the determination based on the evidence presented to the court. If a court order is obtained, a Court-Ordered Delayed Certificate of Death must be presented to the County Probate Court Judge in duplicate. The date of death on these types of forms may be completed to show "Presumed" or "Declared" dead with the date the judge determines to be the date of death. Once the Court-Ordered Delayed Certificates of Death are signed by the judge, one copy should be filed with the county clerk and the other copy with State VSU.

Looking at PaPaw's estate probate case history, it appears this is exactly how PaPaw was declared deceased and his certificate of death was issued:

View attachment 121013

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

Here is some interesting info from dhhs,Texas.gov
https://dshs.texas.gov/vs/handbooks/death/chapter-2.doc
Please take a moment to check out this page. It has some valuable info. Here are the contents of this document.

CONTENTS​

Certifying Death​0
General Information​0
Deaths Certified by the Attending Physician​1
Deaths Certified by the Medical Examiner or Justice of the Peace​2
Deaths Certified by the County Judge​2
Death of a Child Less than Six (6) Years of Age​3
Unidentified Persons​3
If remains are found​3
Missing or Unrecognizable Remains​3
Confidentiality of Information​4
Penalties​4
Instructions for Completing a Certificate of Death​5
General Instructions for Death Certificates​5
Death Certificate Paper Specifications​

For those of you with legal experience, can you clarify this? As I read this document, it states that a death must be certified by an Attending Physician, Medical Examiner, Justice of the Peace or County Judge. Each one of these has its own restrictions.
Once a death has been certified, the next step is to get a death certificate. According to this document, "The death certificate must be filed electronically, as specified by the state registrar, by the person in charge of interment or disposition, or by the person in charge of removing the body from the registration district for disposition [HSC 193.002]. In Addition the person completing the medical certification shall submit the information and attest to its validity using by electronic process specified by the state registrar.[HSC 193.005(h)]. This electronic processes is Texas Electronic Death Registration". (BBM)


I am reading this to mean that first you get the death certified and then you get the certificate. And, only certain people can do this. Is that correct?

Our VI, Pmerle00, has stated that the form (she does not refer to it as a death certificate) was signed off by Sheriff Meeks and a judge.
Here is one of her statements: Thread 1, post 1428, page 96. Posted by Pmerle00.
"I updated my previous post, but wanted to stress: the "certificate" received was not a death certificate, but was a Letter of Testamentary, which required announcements in papers and the pension board. Yes, that type of letter is typically obtained when a person dies and an executor needs to settle an estate, but there are other applications, such as this one."


Based on the information above from the Texas government, how did Sheriff Meeks sign off on the death certificate? I don't know if Pmerle00 has seen the certificate, so maybe BC misquoted when she told Pmerle00 who signed off on this form.


I have never understood the rush to get a death certificate. I read Thread 1 again last night. Pmerle00 states several times that they were financially solid. If BC has evidence of Mr. Chamber's death, I hope it has been shared with his entire family.

From what I'm reading, whether a Medical Examiner, Attending Physician, Judge or Justice of the Peace issue a Death Certificate, in all cases it has to be based on a body having been found. MC's body has not been found. I downloaded and read the chapter linked above re: certification of death, who is allowed to certify a death etc.....and in all I am reading, the common denominator is that: there has to have been a body found and that the circustances surrounding th death determine WHO is allowed to certify the death (attending physician, medical examiner, judge, etc) However, in the section pertaining to "Missing or Unrecognizable Remains" - it states that there is no time limit to wait for a missing person to be declared dead, it is a District Court Judge who will make the determination based on the evidence presented. Based on that, I would assume there would have to be some pretty compelling evidence. If evidence satisfactory the Judge would then issue a "Court-Ordered Certificate of Death." To note: I read nothing about a Sheriff or any member of law enforcement being able to "sign off" on anything pertaining to death certification or death certificate

I am just learning how this all works in TX but my understanding is (correct me someone if I'm wrong?) that in order for someone with a will to have their will probated the executor would need to go before a Probate judge to request a Letter of Testamentary, and in order to receive this they would need to provide A) copy of the Will...B) death certificate

Have the daughters looked into requesting a copy of the Death Certificate? - or whatever document the District Court Judge signed off on? I would imagine whatever document he signed off on would also include a summary of the 'evidence' with which he based his decision to sign off, given that no body has been found/this is a missing persons case. I would imagine that this document would require him to provide rationale/supporting evidence that supported his decision to declare a missing person as deceased?

Speaking in general, if my husband who had been retired for 15 years and receiving a decent pension, had gone missing....and our financial situation was solid....and chances are good that we had next to no debt (our home paid off as would be expected if my husband was 70 and felt financially able to retire 15 years prior (most people don't retire at age 55 in this day and age, unless they're in a very good position financially, IMO), then even if he went missing, you'd think his pension checks would just continue to be ?direct deposited as per usual and from a financial standpoint, him being missing would not cause any financial impact at all. If anything, there may be more money available for me each month as there would be less groceries to buy, less gas for vehicles, less monthly expenses pertaining to restoring cars/traveling to car auctions/buying parts, less water and electricity used, etc. Based on this, I wouldn't be in a rush to have his will probated only a few weeks after he went missing when I'd still be holding out hope that someway, somehow, he'd be returning. If I felt strongly that he didn't wander away to start a new life somewhere, and I believe he did not go off to commit suicide, and there is no evidence to suggest he was hurt somewhere on the property...then that only leaves abduction/criminal activity. There is no way I'd be in agreement, even if other family encouraged it for whatever reason, to sell a special gift given to me (car) - particularly if finances were not an issue. If the car triggered too much emotional distress, I'd at least give it to someone in the family who would cherish it. I would never sell it in the event my missing spouse did one day return.

Speaking of the car, I wonder if the daughters know who bought it? Was it someone local? Was it someone from another state? Sold at a car auction? Did law enforcement ever forensically examine the car; check for blood? evidence? DNA? Was this beautiful car on the Chambers' property at the time MC went missing?

What about the shop? Was Luminol ever used to check for blood elsewhere in the shop? Was the shop secured by Law Enforcement immediately after he was reported missing or did pretty much anyone (family) have free access to it?

What about the house?

What about MC's truck?

Why as BC so quick to call the Sheriff dept that evening she returned home and MC was not there? We've read 2 accounts; one where she contacted them immediately when she returned home and found he wasn't there, another account where she called them 45 minutes after returning home. Why so quick to call police? Did she first make phone calls to family members/friends to see if they'd seen him/went off somewhere with him? Call any neighbors he was maybe chummy with to see if he'd wandered over to their place for a beer or to help with a project/give a hand doing something? Have the daughters ever asked her why she was so quick to call police? Did local police immediately take action? I ask becuz I thought that in most cases, a person has to be missing for a minimum period of time (24 hours?) before LE will consider it a possible Missing Persons case?

Have the daughters considered hiring a PI or finding a former police investigator who would be willing to start from the beginning and look into this case? Someone who is not local or in any way connected to the MC or local law enforcement, someone who is an unbiased 3rd party who will look at everything with a fresh set of eyes? -- someone who can find out what investigation local LE did from the start, and what was not done?....or not done thoroughly?

Is BC privy to information that perhaps only she has shared with local law enforcement, perhaps trying to "spare the family" and "protect the reputation of Papaw"? (eg: that he was struggling with depression, had a gambling addiction, had made some bad business deals, got mixed up with some unsavory characters related to his love of restoring cars?)

Do the daughters have access to copies of any documents that exist pertaining to death certificate? MC's will? If not, could they request these from BC? Or have they already?

 

[Jim_M]

I wonder if Michael's disappearance needs a restart? A fresh pair (or pairs) of eyes to start at the 'beginning'? With a clearing out of any, and all, people at the home. Set up a command center away from the areas to be explored. Treat the scene as if a 'crime' took place yesterday. Search for prints, DNA, and any other evidence that was overlooked in the beginning.

Were the items that Michael purchased at Walmart ever checked for prints? DNA? Was the room, including all access points, checked for the same? Do we know, as factual, that Michael did indeed place those items in the room, the receipt in the trash?

The same holds true for Michael's workshop. Experienced CSI personnel should process that shop like this happened yesterday. Anything that was overlooked could provide the clues this family needs for a resolution.

We are all getting stuck on the technicalities within the family, dealing with this as openly, or not, as they have. They are making decisions within their family that have been picked apart, by all of us. IMO that is victimizing the family all over again.

We need to step outside of our preconceived notions on how they are handling their patriarch's disappearance, and think hard about, "What if this happened to me?" "Would I be put into a position where everything I do is scrutinized?" "Would I be able to face this scrutiny, even if I am not a public person at all?"

On March 10, 2017, this family was visited by some form of evil. We need to remember that. We need to push for more updates from LE. We need to keep Michael's face, and story, on the front page. We need someone to come forward, and say, "Oh, I recall seeing....."

Come home to your family, Michael Chambers. You've been away one day too many.

 

[LaneGirl]

Question....

If the family sought the help of the Sheriff to declare MC deceased, wouldn't the Sheriff logically not make finding MC a top priority?

Am I not understanding this, am I looking at it too logically?

 

[SavetheQueen]

In Texas, there's no limit on how long a person has to be gone before they're considered "missing". As soon as you feel like they're really missing, law enforcement SHOULD take a report.


*All statements are of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

 

[Txteacher1]

I wonder if Michael's disappearance needs a restart? A fresh pair (or pairs) of eyes to start at the 'beginning'? With a clearing out of any, and all, people at the home. Set up a command center away from the areas to be explored. Treat the scene as if a 'crime' took place yesterday. Search for prints, DNA, and any other evidence that was overlooked in the beginning.

Were the items that Michael purchased at Walmart ever checked for prints? DNA? Was the room, including all access points, checked for the same? Do we know, as factual, that Michael did indeed place those items in the room, the receipt in the trash?

The same holds true for Michael's workshop. Experienced CSI personnel should process that shop like this happened yesterday. Anything that was overlooked could provide the clues this family needs for a resolution.

We are all getting stuck on the technicalities within the family, dealing with this as openly, or not, as they have. They are making decisions within their family that have been picked apart, by all of us. IMO that is victimizing the family all over again.

We need to step outside of our preconceived notions on how they are handling their patriarch's disappearance, and think hard about, "What if this happened to me?" "Would I be put into a position where everything I do is scrutinized?" "Would I be able to face this scrutiny, even if I am not a public person at all?"

On March 10, 2017, this family was visited by some form of evil. We need to remember that. We need to push for more updates from LE. We need to keep Michael's face, and story, on the front page. We need someone to come forward, and say, "Oh, I recall seeing....."

Come home to your family, Michael Chambers. You've been away one day too many.

You bring up some great points. I do believe this case needs to start again at step one. None of the pieces, no matter how desperately we do ( or do not) want them to fit, go perfectly together.

There is a lot missing here. I don't know if lack of evidence is because 1) there truly isn't any- someone was just THAT good , 2) shoddy police work- evidence that SHOULD have been collected, wasn't or 3) evidence was collected, but LE is holding their cards close to their chest for whatever reason.

I think people are analyzing what we do know- the legal aspects of what the family has done- because it's a big piece of this story- although it may or may not have anything to do with his disappearance.

Regardless of the police work done on this case, at this point- nearly 5 months out- I would have HOPED that SOMETHING - a surge of publicity, release of "new" known information not previously released, the appearance of doing something- (searches, questioning, evidence collecting)---on part of LE would have been done. Their silence and perceived inactivity stun me- but I do not believe the family should dwell on this.....I would seek resolution on my own in any way I could and encourage them to.

I truly hope the PI hired by the family is looking at this case from absolutely every possible angle- no matter how bizarre or far-fetched it could be and able to give this family answers. I hope he has collected anything he thinks could even REMOTELY be evidence for the future. I hope he has scoured every CCTV camera trying to solidly piece together the timeline and the parts that are so vague.

I 100% agree that he faced evil that day- from all accounts, he is a kind, giving, honorable man, and he absolutely did not deserve being taken from his family or to just become a 'statistic' of one of the many unsolved cases. This case is going to be the one that haunts me until it is resolved because every time I look at him walking out of that Wal-Mart, oblivious to what he was about to face- smiling, happy, and , I think " That could be MY Papaw".

His family needs him home.

 

[Txteacher1]

Question....

If the family sought the help of the Sheriff to declare MC deceased, wouldn't the Sheriff logically not make finding MC a top priority?

Am I not understanding this, am I looking at it too logically?

THAT is what absolutely I cannot wrap my head around- why are there NO searches going on? Yes, it could be like looking for a needle in a haystack, and resources ( personnel, equipment, etc) cost money, but I believe there are enough invested, well-meaning, wanting-to-help citizens that if HCSO set up searches that could be done by the public, educated them on what to do if they find anything,-- then I believe that, if nothing else, we could ELIMINATE areas and possibilities. I cannot reason WHY they are letting this case grow colder by the day! !!!

 

[Deleted member 172065]

All I can think of if is he left some kind of goodbye letter to the family, and they knew he was 'gone', in order to get a death certificate. But it's all been kept quiet.
That make any kind of sense?
Totally just guessing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[LaneGirl]

All I can think of if is he left some kind of goodbye letter to the family, and they knew he was 'gone', in order to get a death certificate. But it's all been kept quiet.
That make any kind of sense?
Totally just guessing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I guess anything is possible, but not probable since the family is insistent he wouldn't just walk out.

I'm still split 50/50 as to walking out and a crime. At this point I'm not sure what would push me over the hump

 

[SavetheQueen]

I guess anything is possible, but not probable since the family is insistent he wouldn't just walk out.

I'm still split 50/50 as to walking out and a crime. At this point I'm not sure what would push me over the hump

My first stance on all this was that he just got tired of whatever life he was living, and took off. People do it every day. But now, I think the opposite.


*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

 

[Deleted member 172065]

I guess anything is possible, but not probable since the family is insistent he wouldn't just walk out.

I'm still split 50/50 as to walking out and a crime. At this point I'm not sure what would push me over the hump

Or a suicide good bye note.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[SavetheQueen]

Or a suicide good bye note.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I hate to even say this, but it's a possibility. Maybe the wife found it, and the Sheriff is keeping it quiet for the sake of devastating the kids.


*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

 

[QueenBea13]

I hate to even say this, but it's a possibility. Maybe the wife found it, and the Sheriff is keeping it quiet for the sake of devastating the kids.


*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

I seriously doubt that. I just don’t see him going to buy mascara then goes home & writes a goodbye letter. If that straw was gonna break I’d think it’d be when he was asked to fetch mascara.


Just my random thoughts & opinions...

 

[CoffeeSleuth]

This is REALLY far- fetched I know, and may have been casually mentioned before, not sure. But can we think of a reason he may be in the Witness (or Victim) Protection Program? Maybe they usually inform family, but he has a really large family, so it might be too risky. Again, I know it's far-fetched and happens more on TV than in the real world. But it does happen sometimes, right?? I like this theory, far-fetched or not, because it would mean he's safe somewhere...

 

[flute4peace]

This is REALLY far- fetched I know, and may have been casually mentioned before, not sure. But can we think of a reason he may be in the Witness (or Victim) Protection Program? Maybe they usually inform family, but he has a really large family, so it might be too risky. Again, I know it's far-fetched and happens more on TV than in the real world. But it does happen sometimes, right?? I like this theory, far-fetched or not, because it would mean he's safe somewhere...

Frankly, this scenario makes more sense to me than any of the others.

Sent from my SCH-I435L using Tapatalk

 

[Mercedes]

I just keep thinking of the Sheriff saying, at the press conference, that perhaps Michael Chambers was trying to protect his wife. We all seemed to think he meant that Mr. Chambers was trying to protect the Mrs. from coming home while the perps were still there and perhaps harming her. What if the Sheriff meant something else? What else could Mr. Chambers be trying to protect his wife from?

 

[Jim_M]

This is REALLY far- fetched I know, and may have been casually mentioned before, not sure. But can we think of a reason he may be in the Witness (or Victim) Protection Program? Maybe they usually inform family, but he has a really large family, so it might be too risky. Again, I know it's far-fetched and happens more on TV than in the real world. But it does happen sometimes, right?? I like this theory, far-fetched or not, because it would mean he's safe somewhere...

Positive outcomes! And if someone tracks down the car, maybe MC will be found driving it? I know. Big time wishful thinking. :scared: