Found Deceased TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #5

[ocgrad]

Those assets seem pretty low to me. Does anyone know if these are just MC's half of everything? Those old cars are valued very low and the house at only $119,000 but she's asking $360,000 or so?

And where is his pension listed?

It would be Michael's half only except the properties in Italy.
As a Dallas firefighter wouldn't he have life insurance? Is that not part of the estate since it is payable to his beneficiary and not to him?

 

[ocgrad]

RBBM

It appears that the item "Mortgages and Notes" under "Schedule C" refers to "notes, or mortgages (due the Decedent) at date of death. In other words, "any mortgages and notes (as assets, not liabilities) at date of death": (BBM)

http://www.texasbarcle.com/Materials.../125564_01.pdf

But it says "no claims" against the estate. Wouldn't the mortgage be listed there?

 

[nannymo]

Broken wrist = pain

Pain = pain meds

Pain meds = constipation

constipation = Prunelax

Could pain meds have anything to do with MC missing? I never thought of that until I saw this OTC med.....
Probably not.

 

[ocgrad]

But how can you get a real value if you don't include the mortgage due? She did estimate things low but is that because the assets had already been divided 50/50 between MC and BC so you now have 2 estates.



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We need an expert to look at this. Too many questions. It says no claims against the estate which I think mortgage and credit cards would apply there. It shows no insurance and I would be surprised if he had cashed out his insurance but maybe since he is not the beneficiary it's not his asset. And why does nothing show in cash and checking account? It doesn't show $0 like other listings, it is blank. Was it redacted?

 

[ocgrad]

Broken wrist = pain

Pain = pain meds

Pain meds = constipation

constipation = Prunelax

Could pain meds have anything to do with MC missing? I never thought of that until I saw this OTC med.....
Probably not.

Opioid abuse is so prevalent it's hard to rule something like that out. I have always thought the meds purchased that day might be part of this. Drug theft is also prevalent in nurses. A 60 yr old woman with younger men interested in her, honestly there are going to be reasons other than her being hot. Maybe access to controlled substances. If it's possible the blood in the garage was staged, other areas of the house, the items in the bathroom, then it's possible he was being staged too. Maybe he was depressed for 3 weeks or she planted evidence to make it seem that way. Maybe she worried she would have to explain missing drugs and was setting things up to blame it on him which she could only do if he is dead. Just speculating. It's possible he had been taking pain meds for his knees, and experiencing depression, and she actually had reason to take prescribed pain meds. So maybe the meds purchased that day are legit, but SM thought he had evidence that MC was depressed. I would like to know more about that.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

We need an expert to look at this. Too many questions. It says no claims against the estate which I think mortgage and credit cards would apply there. It shows no insurance and I would be surprised if he had cashed out his insurance but maybe since he is not the beneficiary it's not his asset. And why does nothing show in cash and checking account? It doesn't show $0 like other listings, it is blank. Was it redacted?

Agreed! Any probate attorney around ?

Just a couple of things I found:

I need to look into how it works in Texas, but in Michigan, "You must list all real property and personal property with the value of each. For decedents who died after March 28, 2013, the value of real property is the net value. If there is a mortgage or other lien on the property, the property’s value will be the market value minus the mortgage or other lien amount. For decedents who died before March 28, 2013, the mortgage or lien is not subtracted from the market value of the home." (BBM)

https://michiganlegalhelp.org/self-h...tate-processes

So, could the value ($118,325.00) be the difference between the market value of the property and the current mortgage balance?

As for life insurance, you may be correct about it not being his asset:

"The Difference between Probate and Non-Probate Assets

While a Will is important for directing the disposition of a Decedent’s assets, it does not control the disposition of all
assets held by the deceased. Assets that pass by a Will are probate assets. But there are non-probate assets too. Non-probate assets are assets that disposition is not controlled by the Decedent’s Will or estate. Non-probate assets include, but are not limited to:
1) Joint accounts with rights of survivorship;
2) Assets with designated beneficiaries, including retirement accounts, IRAs and life insurance policies;
3) Assets owned with a pay-on-death (P.O.D.) designation;
4) Assets owned with a transfer-on-death (T.O.D.) designation;
5) Real property owned as Tenants by the Entirety; and
6) Assets owned by the Trustee of a Decedent’s Revocable Trust.

Probate assets include those assets titled in the Decedent’s name only with no beneficiary designation or rights of survivorship, the Decedent’s portion of assets owned as tenants-in-common and the assets owned as joint tenants without rights of survivorship.

Many times, a surviving spouse opts not to probate the estate of the deceased spouse when all or most of the Decedent’s assets pass to the surviving spouse outside of the probate process. However, community property residences are generally owned as tenants-in-common; thus, if the surviving spouse later attempts to sell the home, some form of probate or estate administration must be initiated to transfer full title on the house into the surviving spouse’s name." (BBM)

http://www.tyla.org/tyla/assets/File/38668TexasProbatePassportWebReady.pdf

As far as cash and bank accounts (or the lack thereof), the "Inventory ..." document reads:

"... Inventory and Appraisement of all personal property and of all real property ... together with a List of Claims ... as of the date of death," which it lists as May 26, 2017.

MC went missing on March 10th. Could BC have used whatever funds they had at the time of his disappearance to pay off debts?

 

[Tripod]

It would be Michael's half only except the properties in Italy.
As a Dallas firefighter wouldn't he have life insurance? Is that not part of the estate since it is payable to his beneficiary and not to him?

Because we were told by VI that there was no life insurance, I'm going by that. I realize we each can consider for ourselves whether the info a VI provides is true or not, but I choose to believe what has been said about the life insurance. Your mileage may vary

 

[Hazelnutty]

My heart leaps when Michael Chambers threads become active. I pray there are answers soon that bring him home and some peace for those who love him

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[Tripod]

The Assets page says "Inventory and Appraisments of all personal property and of all real property of the Estate of Michael Glenn Chambers".

So does that mean all the inventory
listed is in actuality 1/2 of ALL assets?
Has BC already split their joint estate in half?

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Without trying to go back and find it ( and there are deleted posts in those threads, so no guarantee I could), I remember some of the discussion when these docs first became available. Most everyone was shocked at the low valuations of things. That question as to whether these valuations reflected the entirety, or half, of each asset. Our VI was going to look into that and get back to us, and I thought she did find out that these numbers were NOT values by half. Anyone else who was around back then, please chime in if you remember.

 

[txhousewife83]

“Inventory, Appraisement and List of Claims”

As to the properties in Italy, you can find more information below. For all three of them, listed under “Owner” is MC only, but since they are included in his will, they now belong to BC:

http://esearch.elliscad.com/Property/View/209912?year=2017

http://esearch.elliscad.com/Property/View/209921?year=2017

http://esearch.elliscad.com/Property/View/185654?year=2017

I wonder why the third (1.34-acre) Italy property is not on the inventory list.

Thank you so much!! I also really appreciate you sharing that info. I spent the better part of my day searching for those documents with no luck. I am puzzled as to why the third property wasn't listed as well. I don't know the family personally but I grew up in Quinlan and I live about 15 minutes away in Greenville so I guess I can be considered a "local". I've followed this case since the day mc disappeared and its very strange that until today I never knew that he grew up in or owned properties in Italy tx. My parents live in Italy and I'm actually visiting them tomorrow before we visit the bluebonnet festival in ennis. Now I'm wondering if those properties have been searched...if not maybe they should be..

 

[txhousewife83]

Welcome to WS, txhousewife83!

:welcome4:

Thank you♥️very glad to be here!

 

[Tripod]

Is there a copy of the assets statement on this site? Or any document pertaining to the Italy property?

Glad you're aboard WS and Papaw's thread!

 

[Deleted member 50844]

Maybe they had it set up so that if he died, the mortgage would be paid in full. I have had that insurance on my mortgage loans before. You pay a bit extra every month, but if you become disabled or die, the balance gets paid.

 

[Razz]

Maybe they had it set up so that if he died, the mortgage would be paid in full. I have had that insurance on my mortgage loans before. You pay a bit extra every month, but if you become disabled or die, the balance gets paid.

That would be worth looking into.
Maybe on their last refinance, of
2015, they did that. It would make sense from every angle (depending
on which angle one chooses.)



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[txhousewife83]

Glad you're aboard WS and Papaw's thread!

Thank you!

 

[SavetheQueen]

Opioid abuse is so prevalent it's hard to rule something like that out. I have always thought the meds purchased that day might be part of this. Drug theft is also prevalent in nurses. A 60 yr old woman with younger men interested in her, honestly there are going to be reasons other than her being hot. Maybe access to controlled substances. If it's possible the blood in the garage was staged, other areas of the house, the items in the bathroom, then it's possible he was being staged too. Maybe he was depressed for 3 weeks or she planted evidence to make it seem that way. Maybe she worried she would have to explain missing drugs and was setting things up to blame it on him which she could only do if he is dead. Just speculating. It's possible he had been taking pain meds for his knees, and experiencing depression, and she actually had reason to take prescribed pain meds. So maybe the meds purchased that day are legit, but SM thought he had evidence that MC was depressed. I would like to know more about that.

And some of her men don’t look like the classiest of citizens. Good point.


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[SavetheQueen]

Without trying to go back and find it ( and there are deleted posts in those threads, so no guarantee I could), I remember some of the discussion when these docs first became available. Most everyone was shocked at the low valuations of things. That question as to whether these valuations reflected the entirety, or half, of each asset. Our VI was going to look into that and get back to us, and I thought she did find out that these numbers were NOT values by half. Anyone else who was around back then, please chime in if you remember.

The way that I understand it is that they are whole values. For instance, if something is listed at $480, when it’s sold, BC will get $240, and then $240 would be put into the account of the court for MC’s half.


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[SavetheQueen]

Maybe they had it set up so that if he died, the mortgage would be paid in full. I have had that insurance on my mortgage loans before. You pay a bit extra every month, but if you become disabled or die, the balance gets paid.

I’m seriously thinking that’s the case. In vehicles, it’s called “credit life” here in TX. Not sure what it’s called with a mortgage.


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[ocgrad]

The way that I understand it is that they are whole values. For instance, if something is listed at $480, when it’s sold, BC will get $240, and then $240 would be put into the account of the court for MC’s half.


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But I think for this purpose, only his half must go through probate. Her half does not so i dont think it would be shown. And life insurance is bit subject to claims from creditors so it does not probate nor joint bank accounts. A bank account only in his name would but it doesn't appear they had that.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Maybe they had it set up so that if he died, the mortgage would be paid in full. I have had that insurance on my mortgage loans before. You pay a bit extra every month, but if you become disabled or die, the balance gets paid.

This may very well be the case:

I just looked at the property tax information for their home in Quinlan from 2016.

Under “Property Values,” it says the “Market Value” of the property is $236,650.

One half of that is $118,325, the exact number listed as the value of the property on the inventory sheet.

So perhaps BC used the market value, as appraised by the county appraiser, in determining the value of the Quinlan property, and what is listed on the sheet is MC’s half:

http://esearch.hunt-cad.org/Property/View/27571?year=2016

However,

1. If that was the case, wouldn’t the inventory sheet show the current mortgage balance (or half of it), likely under “Claims Owed to the Estate”?

2. Looking at their mortgage history, there is no record of the mortgage being paid off:

https://hunttx-recorder.tylerhost.net/web/search/DOCSEARCH149S1

If they did have mortgage credit life insurance and the payout was used to pay off the mortgage, surely, that would still be recorded with the county, yes?

It still feels like I’m missing something, though ... as usual .

Found this info on how credit life insurance works:

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/can-buy-credit-life-insurance-home-mortgage-age-100398.html



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