TX - pregnant wife unresponsive on life support, husband hopes to fulfill her wishes

[LaborDayRN]

Measuring fetal heart rate would be monitoring, for the father to say a hospital would only be monitoring the heart rate is ludicrous.

Hospitals have a duty of care to patients and it's abundantly clear that this hospital and the Texas law state that this baby is a patient, it would be negligent to just offer fetal heart monitoring as the only testing means.

Seeing as they are considering the baby a patient this would be considered a high risk pregnancy which opens up a whole world of testing that the average pregnancy usually doesn't require.

MOO

Because this little one is not viable outside the womb it would be totally ethical for the hospital to verify heart tones several times daily IMO. It's also possible the wee one is on continuous monitoring, but this is very difficult do to little one's small size and movements (which would be a very good sign). Very little can be evaluated in a baby at this early gestational age by the fetal heart monitoring alone. Unfortunately, if the doctors/nurses saw something on the tracing that appeared ominous, (reccuring decelerations in the heart rate for example) there is little they could do to intervene as delivering the baby at this age would guarantee lose of life. You are correct that very detailed ultra sounds are likely being done on a very regular basis. MOO

 

[jjenny]

Because this little one is not viable outside the womb it would be totally ethical for the hospital to verify heart tones several times daily IMO. It's also possible the wee one is on continuous monitoring, but this is very difficult do to little one's small size and movements (which would be a very good sign). Very little can be evaluated in a baby at this early gestational age by the fetal heart monitoring alone. Unfortunately, if the doctors/nurses saw something on the tracing that appeared ominous, (reccuring decelerations in the heart rate for example) there is little they could do to intervene as delivering the baby at this age would guarantee lose of life. You are correct that very detailed ultra sounds are likely being done on a very regular basis. MOO

Every single article I read about the case says condition of the fetus is unknown.
How would that be possible if detailed ultrasounds are done on a regular basis?
By the way hearing on the case is set for Friday.

 

[ceecee30]

Every single article I read about the case says condition of the fetus is unknown.

How would that be possible if detailed ultrasounds are done on a regular basis?

By the way hearing on the case is set for Friday.

That's all quotes from the father, he says he doesn't know the condition the hospital hasn't released anything on the condition of the baby.

 

[faw720]

Every single article I read about the case says condition of the fetus is unknown.
How would that be possible if detailed ultrasounds are done on a regular basis?
By the way hearing on the case is set for Friday.

Can you provide a link for the hearing date? I haven't been able to find anything. Thank you!

 

[jjenny]

Can you provide a link for the hearing date? I haven't been able to find anything. Thank you!

"A hearing to determine whether a pregnant, brain dead Tarrant County woman can be removed from life support will be heard Friday."

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/He...y-of-Pregnant-Brain-Dead-Woman-241379381.html

 

[Elainera]

That's all quotes from the father, he says he doesn't know the condition the hospital hasn't released anything on the condition of the baby.

I don't really understand why he would say that, why he claims he doesn't know the condition of his baby. Does he not want to know or is the hospital refusing to tell him? Or does he know but doesn't want to discuss it publicly?

Is he allowed to see his (dead) wife? And if so, is he visiting her or is he keeping away?

 

[ceecee30]

I don't really understand why he would say that, why he claims he doesn't know the condition of his baby. Does he not want to know or is the hospital refusing to tell him? Or does he know but doesn't want to discuss it publicly?



Is he allowed to see his (dead) wife? And if so, is he visiting her or is he keeping away?

I'm not sure, the only quotes or direct reference to the baby and/or it's condition that I have seen in MSM are from father stating he doesn't know the babies condition.

How that's possible I am not sure.

Maybe he knows more of the condition and it's in the court filings but why then wouldn't he also make that public???

 

[jjenny]

I don't really understand why he would say that, why he claims he doesn't know the condition of his baby. Does he not want to know or is the hospital refusing to tell him? Or does he know but doesn't want to discuss it publicly?

Is he allowed to see his (dead) wife? And if so, is he visiting her or is he keeping away?

He is allowed to see her. From his interviews, he has been visiting her.
He discussed his concerns about possible conditions of the fetus publicly, so I don't believe he doesn't want to discuss it publicly. So I am not sure why nothing is known about condition of the fetus. Unless hospital doesn't want to do any extra tests until fetus turns 24 weeks?

 

[ceecee30]

He is allowed to see her. From his interviews, he has been visiting her.

He discussed his concerns about possible conditions of the fetus publicly, so I don't believe he doesn't want to discuss it publicly. So I am not sure why nothing is known about condition of the fetus. Unless hospital doesn't want to do any extra tests until fetus turns 24 weeks?

The standard tests hospital would have done would be fetal heart monitoring and ultrasounds. He would know the baby's condition from the ultrasound, this is where they pick up abnormalities and birth defects.

The only unknown would be the condition of the baby's brain.

Considering this is not a standard pregnancy in a hospital scenario this would be considered high risk and as I've previously mentioned this would then trigger a series of tests on the baby.

So again how the father doesn't know what the condition of the baby is in, I don't know.

To suggest the hospital is not wanting to do extra tests until viability with life outside the womb at 24 weeks would be accusing them of malpractice and failing their duty of care to a patient, because the baby is a patient...

 

[jjenny]

The standard tests hospital would have done would be fetal heart monitoring and ultrasounds. He would know the baby's condition from the ultrasound, this is where they pick up abnormalities and birth defects.

The only unknown would be the condition of the baby's brain.

Considering this is not a standard pregnancy in a hospital scenario this would be considered high risk and as I've previously mentioned this would then trigger a series of tests on the baby.

So again how the father doesn't know what the condition of the baby is in, I don't know.

To suggest the hospital is not wanting to do extra tests until viability with life outside the womb at 24 weeks would be accusing them of malpractice and failing their duty of care to a patient, because the baby is a patient...

I am suggesting it because of what is being reported. Hospital plans to do tests on the fetus when it turns 24 weeks gestation, which will be in early February. Family members of the mother have been quoted saying that the only thing they know about the fetus is that it has a hearbeat. What else am I supposed to suggest given what we know?

"The family says Erick Muñoz continues to visit his wife on a daily basis. The family is now looking forward to fetal viability tests, which are scheduled for early February."
http://www.wfaa.com/news/health/Whe...case-challenges-medical-ethics-240377831.html

 

[jjenny]

Here is mother's father quoted that the only thing they know about the fetus is that it has a heartbeat.

"Mrs. Munoz’s parents and her husband, Erick Munoz, 26, remain in limbo, even as they and other relatives help care for the Munozes’ 15-month-old son, Mateo.Mr. Munoz has returned to his job as a firefighter but continues to sit by his wife’s side at the hospital. She had been due to give birth in mid-May, but the hospital’s plans for the fetus — as well as its health and viability — remain unknown. Mr. Machado said he had been told by the hospital’s medical team that his daughter might have gone an hour or longer without breathing before her husband woke and discovered her, a situation he believes has seriously impaired the fetus. “We know there’s a heartbeat, but that’s all we know,” he said."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/08/us/pregnant-and-forced-to-stay-on-life-support.html?_r=0

 

[dh109977]

Here is mother's father quoted that the only thing they know about the fetus is that it has a heartbeat.

"Mrs. Munoz’s parents and her husband, Erick Munoz, 26, remain in limbo, even as they and other relatives help care for the Munozes’ 15-month-old son, Mateo.Mr. Munoz has returned to his job as a firefighter but continues to sit by his wife’s side at the hospital. She had been due to give birth in mid-May, but the hospital’s plans for the fetus — as well as its health and viability — remain unknown. Mr. Machado said he had been told by the hospital’s medical team that his daughter might have gone an hour or longer without breathing before her husband woke and discovered her, a situation he believes has seriously impaired the fetus. “We know there’s a heartbeat, but that’s all we know,” he said."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/08/us/pregnant-and-forced-to-stay-on-life-support.html?_r=0

Could the hospital not be telling them what they know? Maybe they heard the baby's heartbeat. Maybe they didn't tell them the findings of the ultrasound? Is the hospital allowed to hold back info on the baby?

 

[jjenny]

Could the hospital not be telling them what they know? Maybe they heard the baby's heartbeat. Maybe they didn't tell them the findings of the ultrasound? Is the hospital allowed to hold back info on the baby?

Why would the hospital do that? And could it legally? I don't know.

 

[NevadaMom]

I honestly wonder if they would hold information that they feel would validate Mr. Munoz's fears of fetal brain damage. I really don't like to think poorly of medical professionals in such a manner, but if they are being forced by the state then their hands may well be tied. If he knew shortly after his wife was declared brain dead that the fetus had been impacted as well it might have changed his persistence to end the waiting game. I doubt the powers that be in the state of Texas want such a things to be known that might make them look bad either - and knowingly forcing a brain damaged fetus to come to viability only to be born and suffer will not sit will with a LOT of people.

IMO. :moo:

 

[jjenny]

I think the hospital has been waiting until the fetus is big enough to do these tests.

"What might doctors know and haven’t told the public?

The fetal heartbeat can be monitored. Tests of the amniotic fluid and fetal blood can identify genetic issues. Sonograms can determine organ development and watch arm and leg movements for signs of abnormality. Whether the fetus is growing can be monitored. An MRI might see evidence of strokes or other abnormalities in the developing brain. But that test can’t really be done effectively before 20 weeks, said Dr. Vincenzo Berghella, president-elect of the national Society for Maternal-Fetal Medicine."

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metr...gnant-woman-on-life-support-is-brain-dead.ece

 

[ceecee30]

I think the hospital has been waiting until the fetus is big enough to do these tests.



"What might doctors know and haven’t told the public?



The fetal heartbeat can be monitored. Tests of the amniotic fluid and fetal blood can identify genetic issues. Sonograms can determine organ development and watch arm and leg movements for signs of abnormality. Whether the fetus is growing can be monitored. An MRI might see evidence of strokes or other abnormalities in the developing brain. But that test can’t really be done effectively before 20 weeks, said Dr. Vincenzo Berghella, president-elect of the national Society for Maternal-Fetal Medicine."



http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metr...gnant-woman-on-life-support-is-brain-dead.ece

The baby is 20 weeks now, and the scan he's describing that's just a standard 20 week morphology scan which all pregnant women have.

 

[ceecee30]

I am suggesting it because of what is being reported. Hospital plans to do tests on the fetus when it turns 24 weeks gestation, which will be in early February. Family members of the mother have been quoted saying that the only thing they know about the fetus is that it has a hearbeat. What else am I supposed to suggest given what we know?

"The family says Erick Muñoz continues to visit his wife on a daily basis. The family is now looking forward to fetal viability tests, which are scheduled for early February."
http://www.wfaa.com/news/health/Whe...case-challenges-medical-ethics-240377831.html

These are to check if the baby is viable to be removed from womb, and what kind of NICU interventions they will need in place.

 

[jjenny]

These are to check if the baby is viable to be removed from womb, and what kind of NICU interventions they will need in place.

Nobody wants to remove a baby from womb at 24 weeks if it does not have to come out.

 

[jjenny]

The baby is 20 weeks now, and the scan he's describing that's just a standard 20 week morphology scan which all pregnant women have.

All women have an MRI test?

 

[ceecee30]

I am suggesting it because of what is being reported. Hospital plans to do tests on the fetus when it turns 24 weeks gestation, which will be in early February. Family members of the mother have been quoted saying that the only thing they know about the fetus is that it has a hearbeat. What else am I supposed to suggest given what we know?

"The family says Erick Muñoz continues to visit his wife on a daily basis. The family is now looking forward to fetal viability tests, which are scheduled for early February."
http://www.wfaa.com/news/health/Whe...case-challenges-medical-ethics-240377831.html

Here is mother's father quoted that the only thing they know about the fetus is that it has a heartbeat.



"Mrs. Munoz’s parents and her husband, Erick Munoz, 26, remain in limbo, even as they and other relatives help care for the Munozes’ 15-month-old son, Mateo.Mr. Munoz has returned to his job as a firefighter but continues to sit by his wife’s side at the hospital. She had been due to give birth in mid-May, but the hospital’s plans for the fetus — as well as its health and viability — remain unknown. Mr. Machado said he had been told by the hospital’s medical team that his daughter might have gone an hour or longer without breathing before her husband woke and discovered her, a situation he believes has seriously impaired the fetus. “We know there’s a heartbeat, but that’s all we know,” he said."



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/08/us/pregnant-and-forced-to-stay-on-life-support.html?_r=0

Again these are quotes from the family, which again the say they don't know the baby's condition, that's not nearly the same as a hospital releasing they don't know the condition of the baby.

I could liken it another high profile case (Jahi mcMath) and the media report that her family states she's not brain dead. That's what they want to tell the public.

I think in the Munoz case there is no way they CANNOT know the baby's growth, organ, blood flow, abnormalities. The only unknown would be in relation to the baby's brain. But they want to tell the public they don't know baby's condition at all..