JMO, this case is not about ethics. I feel fairly certain that at least some of the medical team is being forced to go against medical ethics. This case is not about the baby or the Munoz family. This case is about our state governor & legislature taking it upon themselves to play God. My belief is that it is a bigger offense to God for the state to try & usurp HIS authority than it is to let nature take its course. Humans were not intended to live forever, otherwise the world would be a bit overpopulated. Some of our lives are long & some are short. It is the way of nature.
TX - pregnant wife unresponsive on life support, husband hopes to fulfill her wishes
- Thread starter Softail
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JMO, this case is not about ethics. I feel fairly certain that at least some of the medical team is being forced to go against medical ethics. This case is not about the baby or the Munoz family. This case is about our state governor & legislature taking it upon themselves to play God. My belief is that it is a bigger offense to God for the state to try & usurp HIS authority than it is to let nature take its course. Humans were not intended to live forever, otherwise the world would be a bit overpopulated. Some of our lives are long & some are short. It is the way of nature.
Let nature take its course? Does this only apply to this case, or should we not treat anyone when they get sick? After all, it's God's will that they die?
And how do you know that it isn't God's will for this fetus to live? After all the mother already has been on life support for 8 weeks and her heart has not stopped. Only 2 weeks to go before fetus is considered viable.
Donjeta
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If God objects to the child being born alive, it seems like He might have his ways of making sure it doesn't happen.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/the-cruellest-pregnancy-20140121-3167f.html#ixzz2r9Feqsnz
I don't know... It's difficult enough to find out what the brain dead woman would have preferred if she didn't leave a living will - it's harder by far to be sure about what God thinks.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/the-cruellest-pregnancy-20140121-3167f.html#ixzz2r9Feqsnz
I don't know... It's difficult enough to find out what the brain dead woman would have preferred if she didn't leave a living will - it's harder by far to be sure about what God thinks.
hambirg
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How about a rape victim who's become pregnant? "Must of been God's will. Let's just let nature take it's course."
Actually the same could be said to any woman seeking an abortion.
bbm
yes it is past the point of a legal abortion in texas. you know now that I read that 20 weeks again, I look at that and see 5 months. In fact it's 5 months 2 weeks. At 4 months I felt movement.
http://www.cpmc.org/services/pregnancy/information/fetal_development.html
At the end of 5 months:
Fetus is 8 to 10 inches long
Weighs about 1 pound
Hair begins to grow on his/her head
Soft, woolly hair called lanugo will cover baby's body (and some may remain until a week after birth when it is shed)
Mother begins to feel fetal movement
Internal organs are maturing
Eyebrows, eyelids and eyelashes appear
I'm just a plain jane citizen. What I see is a hospital that has possibly read the law wrong. Or... the law was not written in a clear enough way that it can be interpreted by who ever is reading it at the hospital. I have wondered if she had been taken to a different hospital if there would have been a different out come. I do not want to see a situation where people can just say that so and so said this is what they wanted when such and such happened. My grandmother wanted to be cremated and her son said if he was alive when she died it would not happen. He passed first and when she passed she was cremated. But... he could have out lived her and went against her wishes had he out lived her. I am not a god fearing person, I can't understand a god that would allow a life to begin only to then stop it from developing. But that's just me. jmo idk
I will say, I think the law will be amended and in 35 plus years some other issue will arise because technology has a way of getting ahead of the laws.
No, in my opinion it doesn't apply only to this case. The abilities of medical science has far surpassed any ethical & moral values that should be considered. Marlise's heart has not stopped beating because of unnatural medical intervention. Personally, I don't want to be kept alive mechanically regardless of my age, pregnant or not. Thankfully I am past child bearing age, but I would feel the same way if I were. If I die without any hope of recovery, please just let me die. How on earth would any governmental entity know what is best for me or my family? I had a baby brother who died at 3 days old in an age when extraordinary medical measures were not available. I do not know why this happened. My mother had a normal pregnancy & my little brother was a full term beautiful little baby seemingly normal in every aspect. For whatever reason it was not meant to be & therefore I assume it was God's will.
If it is God's will, the fetus will survive, if not, it will die. For those of you who want the baby to be born regardless of it's condition, I firmly believe you will get your wish. I just hope the poor child will not suffer solely for political purposes or by others assuming that they know what is best for this family. How would you feel if your wishes were totally ignored in the same situation? If the government is allowed to make a personal decision for the Munoz family, you could be the victim of a similar situation & some government could demand that you had to terminate your pregnancy even if it was against your wishes. Don't know if it is still the case but at one time the Chinese government only allowed its citizens to have 1 child. Catholics do not believe in birth control. Should any government have the right to demand that they practice it? Don't think so. Some decisions are so personal they shouldn't be decided by anyone other than the people directly involved.
I could be wrong but the judge on this case was originally an appointee of Governor Perry & IMO he will surely rule in favor of the hospital. Should he rule in favor of the Munoz family, I can assure you I will be able to be knocked over with a feather.
I am sorry for the baby & I am sorry for the family. JMO each family should be allowed to act according to THEIR own wishes.
As I see it, the purpose of the law was to allow fetus a chance. Now, a lot of people disagree with the law, but how does it make a difference whether mother is in a coma or brain dead? That law was not designed to save the mother, but the fetus. Right now hospitals can turn off life support from brain dead without permission from the family. If brain dead is the same as dead (which our laws say it is), then hospital can turn off life support from a full term pregnant woman without asking her family. Even if that family doesn't want that to happen. Clearly we need to come up with better laws because our technology now allows fetus to be supported for a long time even if mother is brain dead.
I am currently in a situation much like your grandmothers. I want to donate my body to medical science but a couple of family members violently disagree. I have delayed putting my wishes into writing hoping that I can persuade them otherwise. I should have an interesting body to study especially since I have suffered two life threatening diseases. I had childhood polio & came through with relatively few problems although I still have some paralysis & have what I consider to be some of the most aching muscles in the world. I am also a 33 year survivor of breast cancer. I had a double mastectomy & a year later had reconstructive surgery. By the way, my implants are silicone, the only thing available at the time & which medical science now thinks causes all sorts of medical issues. Otherwise I've pretty much breezed through life with nothing more serious than colds & injuries from a car wreck. I don't know whether medical history is taken into consideration for a donated body. K_Z, do you know? Anyway, it's my opinion that donating my body to medical science would be a way of contributing to society. Maybe I'll be able to persuade my family & maybe not, but I still hold out hope.
If each family should be allowed to act according to their own wishes, doesn't that mean that someone like Jahi McMath has to remain on life support? It should go both ways. If somebody doesn't want life support, turn them off. But if somebody wants life support, keep them on even if they are brain dead?
We are going to end up with bunch of brain dead people attached to ventillators with no hope of recovery whatsoever.
How about a rape victim who's become pregnant? "Must of been God's will. Let's just let nature take it's course."
Actually when I mentioned letting nature take its course, I was referring to someone dying. Personally, I believe they should be allowed to die with dignity unless they have specified that they want any & all available measures used to keep them alive.
As for a poor pregnant rape victim, I believe the state of Texas considers her to be just like any other pregnant woman & subject to the same laws regarding pregnancy.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
China's policy is still one child and that results in female babies being dumped and left for dead, because most families want a male child.
I don't think it's a matter of everyone just wanting the baby born regardless, I think a lot of people would like to see if the baby is ok before just pulling the plug without knowing.
I am very sorry to hear your mother lost a son and you lost a brother, unfortunately your right sometimes it is gods will to take a babe back into his loving arms.
In saying that, god has not taken the Munoz babe back home yet, so doesn't that mean even god wants the baby to have a chance????
Do I agree with the how the state of Texas is going about it... NO, I feel it's extremely unfortunate how this situation is transpiring however I feel as if the hospital wouldn't be doing it unless there was slim hope.
Even the smallest piece of hope can make a miracle, the tiniest baby will fight the hardest and until you've seen a prem fight and fight hard you just can't understand what these kids can do..
My son was 8 weeks early, I've seen him fight for the most important thing he'd ever fight for.. His life. I saw a 23 weeker leave hospital after 105 days with NO major medical complications of prematurity. To Me the Munoz baby deserves that same fighting chance.
Softail
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Hearing set in Texas brain-dead, pregnant woman case
FORT WORTH, Texas (AP) A different judge will consider a North Texas man's request to remove his pregnant, brain-dead wife from life support at a hospital.
A hearing has been scheduled Friday before state District Judge R.H. Wallace in Fort Worth in the case of Marlise Munoz
http://www.kxan.com/news/texas/hearing-set-in-texas-brain-dead-pregnant-woman-case
FORT WORTH, Texas (AP) A different judge will consider a North Texas man's request to remove his pregnant, brain-dead wife from life support at a hospital.
A hearing has been scheduled Friday before state District Judge R.H. Wallace in Fort Worth in the case of Marlise Munoz
http://www.kxan.com/news/texas/hearing-set-in-texas-brain-dead-pregnant-woman-case
Respectfully snipped.
I have seen 2 preemies fight for life & it's a very scary situation. I have 2 great-nieces both born at 26 weeks 9 years apart. Their mother was healthy in the extreme, but for some reason, she just couldn't carry a baby to term. The oldest is now 12. She has been wearing glasses since age 2 & has chronic asthma, probably due to her premature birth. However nothing slows her down much. She excels in school & has been in gifted & talented programs for several years. The second preemie is now 3 years old. For some reason, probably premature birth, she didn't walk until she was 2 years old........just couldn't get it all figured out. Only within the last 6 months has she talked much at all. Otherwise, she appears fine. She started pre K this year & is apparently doing fine. By the time their 18 month old brother arrived, the doctor finally decided he should take some precautions with this pregnancy. Don't ask me how he finally arrived at this decision. Duh....... He gave my niece steroid shots & she was able to carry the baby to 39 weeks.
My main concerns for the Munoz baby are that its mom is brain dead, was given electrical shock & who knows what else to revive her & no one knows how long the fetus was oxygen deprived.........probably for an extended time. I also worry about it getting the nutrients that it needs. We are also not aware of all the medical methods used just to keep Marlise's heart beating. I just worry about a baby suffering.
BTW, my second preemie great niece was born 90 miles away from the nearest NICU. Care flight couldn't operate because of extremely stormy weather. That same stormy weather also kept the ambulance from traveling at great speed so I'm sure we are doubly blessed that she survived with as few problems as she did.
K_Z
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Snipped for relevance. I'd like to address this misinformation about China.
First, the one child policy only applies to about half the population. Most families that want more than one, and have at least a lower middle class income, pay the fine/ tax and keep or have a second child. Everywhere you go in China you will see families with ONE little girl, dressed to the nines in party dresses, playing outside, at the zoo, etc. These are very loved and cherished little girls.
Second, female babies aren't being "dumped and left for dead"-- the overwhelming majority of females that are left in public places, are extremely well cared for, well nourished, and left in highly public places so that they will be found promptly and placed in the child welfare system. You simply do not hear about baby girls being found in dumpsters.
I am both a birth parent, and an adoptive parent. One of my daughters is from an orphanage in China that has about 400 kids-- around 50 to 75 were female. The rest were "damaged" males, with Down syndrome, cerebral palsy, and various mental and physical deformities. "Damaged" boys are left to be raised in the children's welfare system at FAR higher rates than healthy baby girls-- that is a dirty little secret that seldom makes the evening news. The current "wait" for a healthy baby girl in our agency is 7 years. SEVEN years, with a registry of waiting list numbers. "Damaged" children, or "waiting" children, older, and/ or with health problems-- lots of those kids available today. The flood gates from the 1990's have closed, and China is not "easy" to adopt from-- they have enormous lists of requirements for prospective parents, some of which include educational level, and body mass index.
The Chinese system has no foster care, and NO MECHANISM to lawfully relinquish a child for adoption. China has tremendous social struggles, and no safety net for the poor, or teen moms. Every country comes to international adoption because they have tremendous social and economic problems that make raising children very, very difficult.
I don't want to go any more off topic, but the myths about healthy baby girls being dumped like garbage in China are, for the largest part, completely untrue. There is a cultural preference for boys, true, particularly among the less educated and the rural communities. But the overwhelming majority of parents there love and cherish their baby girls, just as they do here and elsewhere. So many of the kids who are left to be raised by children's welfare are from mothers who simply cannot raise a child alone because they are young, poor, or the child has overwhelming handicaps (many of which would not even be a handicap in the U.S.). It would break your heart to learn about the notes left with some of the foundlings, tearful pleas to care for the child and give it a better life, birthdates and astrological signs, etc. The decision to abandon a child must be absolutely heartwrenching for most of the young women.
I pray for the woman who gave birth to my daughter and abandoned her, that this woman will be able to have peace, and a sense that her child is okay and thriving. I pray that she is able to forgive herself for what she must have felt she had to do. And that is the message I will raise my daughter with-- that she was never garbage to be dumped, but that her birth mom did the best she could to make sure she would have a better life, even if that life was with different people. That her birth mom made the hardest decision of her life. And I honor her decision by loving this child as if she grew within me, and doing my best for her as her new mom.
Please, please give the Chinese women a break. I really hate that they are so reviled for giving up their kids. Most of these women have few to no choices. Abandoning their children may not be a choice any of us might make, but I firmly believe most of them agonized over their choices, and made the best choice they could for the child. The child welfare system, though it has problems, is still vastly better than the living condition of most of the poor.
Respectfully from MSM
http://www.lifesitenews.com/mobile/...r-saved-30-children-found-dumped-in-the-trash
There are many more links I could put up?
Whilst I was was never having a go a Chinese mothers having to give up their children.
I was however bringing up an extremely relevant point on what has happened to babies due to such policies about only one child.
bbm, not any more.
China's wealthy eastern province of Zhejiang became the first to implement a new landmark relaxation of the country's strict one-child policy on Friday, state media reported, allowing more parents to have a second child.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/17/us-china-onechild-idUSBREA0G0J220140117
alwaysonmymind
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WFAA News 8 just had a report in this. Lawyers for the Munoz family have stated that the fetus is not developing normally- lower extremities not growing properly to the extent that gender is unclear, hydrocephalus and a possible heart defect.
I checked the website and the story is not up yet.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I checked the website and the story is not up yet.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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