TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #1

[bluesneakers]

There is one thing I think we all can agree on -- it will be great when the rest of the world has vehicles with warp capabilities like those in Texas.

It was a glitch in the Matrix!

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I was wondering about bail for Sandra and found this.

Before she was found dead of apparent suicide in a Texas jail cell, Sandra Bland called a bail bondsman hoping to get out.

“I talked to her when she first went to jail,” Joe Booker of Hempstead told The Daily Beast on Thursday. “I called her mother for her.”
Booker then hung up and didn’t respond to further requests for comment. It would have cost friends or family $500 to bail out Bland, Captain Brian Cantrell of the Waller County Sheriff’s Office said.

$500 and she would have been out. They probably didn't have it. What a shame.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...bail-before-allegedly-committing-suicide.html

 

[bessie]

Actually, that goes against what the officer himself said. If you listen to the part of the dashcam video when he's talking to his department, he said the Bland was under arrest when he pulled her over -- that would have been before they had had any physical contact whatsoever. (That's also why he was debating whether to charge her with 'resisting arrest', as he was under the assumption that she was already under arrest.)

And so, her initial arrest in the eyes of the officer was for the traffic violation. (I don't think that someone who is pulled over by a traffic cop is de facto under arrest, but that is what he says in the dashcam video.)

You're absolutely correct. His words, "I mean, uh...technically she's under arrest when a traffic stop is issued." (Approximately 28:04-28:09 in the video.)

I've edited the thread title simply to read "found dead in her jail cell".

 

[bluesneakers]

What I'm about to say is not meant as any slight or offense to you, but I'm afraid I think your post is profoundly depressing. Its the type of thing I would expect to hear from all too many countries around the world, but I never expected to hear it from America.

It is depressing. We're not meek and we value our freedoms. I would like to think Americans are as familiar with the 4th amendment as they are with the 1st and 2nd.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I believe that the officer was morally wrong to arrest her (MOO), but I don't think it would be just to accuse him of causing her death. (MOO)

I see a contradiction here. If he hadn't arrested her, she wouldn't have been in that jail cell and she wouldn't have died, suicide or not. So he could be considered at least a partial cause of her death. MOO too of course.

If she is not doing what she is told he has every right to pull her out of that car.

No. Citizens have rights that include not having to obey every order given by a police officer. I don't actually think you intended your statement to be this sweeping, but at a literal level it means that the officer could have told her to open her blouse and show him her chest, and if she refused he had every right to pull her out of the car.

I'm not sure refusing to put out a cigarette rises to being pulled out of the car severity.



Now on other topics not in response to a specific post.

Question for the group.

In thinking about this case it struck me that if I found myself in a jail cell I wouldn't have the first clue how to hang myself. Whether from the ceiling or a chair (referring back to the mention of Robin Williams) or any other way. I couldn't tie a hangman's noose if someone offered to pay me a million bucks to do so.

And I'm assuming they don't have Internet access to look it up. (Robin Williams excluded, of course).

So how do they know how to hang themselves? Would you personally know how in such a situation? And if so how did you learn?

Second question. The initial accounts I read said she hanged herself. Then subsequent accounts said she asphyxiated herself with the bag over her head. Would you need a bag over your head to hang yourself? Aren't hanging yourself and asphyxiating yourself two different things? Does anyone else recall these two separate and (as far as I know) somewhat disparate explanations of her cause of death?

Feeling a little confused here.

 

[katydid23]

Because I'm guessing she had all kinds of bruises and injuries. And they walked in at whatever point and found her lying there dead with no explanation. They knew there would be an inquiry.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I didn't see any injuries on her mugshot. Do you think the Custody Officers beat her up and then faked a hanging?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

He wasn't putting his life on the line, he was using the power conferred on him by his uniform, ie by the state, to bully a woman for his own jollies. A thoroughly nasty piece of work, IMO, and not deserving of any more respect than any other work place bully.

The danger of people lumping all police officers into his category can be very easily avoided - by sacking him. That way people will know that the police as a whole do not condone the type of behaviour we all saw on that tape.

I guess we see things differently. Jollies? I don't see it that way. I think he got angry when she didn't comply with his command to put the cigarette out.

If firing this one officer would make all of the hatred being being projected at law enforcement officers go away then I would be all for it.

If it happens I doubt it will change a thing. JMO

 

[katydid23]

He wasn't putting his life on the line, he was using the power conferred on him by his uniform, ie by the state, to bully a woman for his own jollies. A thoroughly nasty piece of work, IMO, and not deserving of any more respect than any other work place bully.

The danger of people lumping all police officers into his category can be very easily avoided - by sacking him. That way people will know that the police as a whole do not condone the type of behaviour we all saw on that tape.

He was putting his life on the line by making a traffic stop. One of the most dangerous times for an officer is during a traffic stop. A cop in Hayward lost his life today, in fact.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...killed-routine-traffic-stop-article-1.2300640
As Sgt. Lunger got out of the car and approached the driver's side of the vehicle, the driver shot Sgt. Lunger without warning," Chief Mark Koller said at an emotional press conference.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

1. This lady killed herself by her own hand and was in jail for breaking the law. She had drugs in her system.

2. On the other hand, no matter what the investigation proves, it will fall on some deaf ears because said deaf ears don't want to hear the truth. Ever.

Respectfully snipped and numbered by me for focus.

1. She wasn't in jail for having drugs in her system. She could have been coked to the gills, but so far not even the arresting officer has claimed that she even appeared to be so. So pointing that out seems to be victim smearing to me.

2. Yes, indeed.

 

[bluesneakers]

I see a contradiction here. If he hadn't arrested her, she wouldn't have been in that jail cell and she wouldn't have died, suicide or not. So he could be considered at least a partial cause of her death. MOO too of course.



No. Citizens have rights that include not having to obey every order given by a police officer. I don't actually think you intended your statement to be this sweeping, but at a literal level it means that the officer could have told her to open her blouse and show him her chest, and if she refused he had every right to pull her out of the car.

I'm not sure refusing to put out a cigarette rises to being pulled out of the car severity.



Now on other topics not in response to a specific post.

Question for the group.

In thinking about this case it struck me that if I found myself in a jail cell I wouldn't have the first clue how to hang myself. Whether from the ceiling or a chair (referring back to the mention of Robin Williams) or any other way. I couldn't tie a hangman's noose if someone offered to pay me a million bucks to do so.

And I'm assuming they don't have Internet access to look it up. (Robin Williams excluded, of course).

So how do they know how to hang themselves? Would you personally know how in such a situation? And if so how did you learn?

Second question. The initial accounts I read said she hanged herself. Then subsequent accounts said she asphyxiated herself with the bag over her head. Would you need a bag over your head to hang yourself? Aren't hanging yourself and asphyxiating yourself two different things? Does anyone else recall these two separate and (as far as I know) somewhat disparate explanations of her cause of death?

Feeling a little confused here.

According to the intake paper she said she'd attempted suicide before with pills. But it's not unusual for someone who is depressed and suicidal to have more than one plan, and if you are curious or interested in the subject, or if you know someone who has committed suicide it's easy enough to research different methods. I think someone not depressed and with no history of suicidal ideation might not know what to do in those circumstances (in jail with limited resources), but unfortunately someone familiar with those moods and desperation might. And yes, I would know what to do. (Also, people who spend a lot of time on WS might have some ideas too.)

I have only read she hanged herself. Hanging is sometimes death by asphyxiation. In Robin Williams' case I believe his cause of death was asphyxia due to hanging.

 

[Montjoy]

If it happens I doubt it will change a thing. JMO

Oh, any time a bad cop is stripped of his badge it is a good thing for society. Just because doing something doesn't solve every single problem in the world is a poor excuse for not doing the right thing.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

The guy was an arrogant jerk. That's not against the law, and that's NOT murder.

Sandra was copping an attitude with the guy. That's not against the law either. Just saying.

 

[Cappuccino]

I guess we see things differently. Jollies? I don't see it that way. I think he got angry when she didn't comply with his command to put the cigarette out.

If firing this one officer would make all of the hatred being being projected at law enforcement officers go away then I would be all for it.

If it happens I doubt it will change a thing. JMO

He had no right to command her to put a cigarette out. Its perfectly legal to smoke in your own car, she knew it and he knew it. He was bullying her.

This officer deserves to be fired for no other reason than what we all saw on that dashcam vid. Of course that won't on its own cure all the problems between LE and the black community, but its the right thing to do anyway.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

What I'm about to say is not meant as any slight or offense to you, but I'm afraid I think your post is profoundly depressing. Its the type of thing I would expect to hear from all too many countries around the world, but I never expected to hear it from America.

ITA. If we haven't done anything wrong beyond a traffic violation, we shouldn't have to fear law enforcement.

 

[bluesneakers]

Respectfully snipped and numbered by me for focus.

1. She wasn't in jail for having drugs in her system. She could have been coked to the gills, but so far not even the arresting officer has claimed that she even appeared to be so. So pointing that out seems to be victim smearing to me.

2. Yes, indeed.

Do we know she had drugs in her system? I think I missed something.

 

[Cappuccino]

He was putting his life on the line by making a traffic stop. One of the most dangerous times for an officer is during a traffic stop. A cop in Hayward lost his life today, in fact.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...killed-routine-traffic-stop-article-1.2300640
As Sgt. Lunger got out of the car and approached the driver's side of the vehicle, the driver shot Sgt. Lunger without warning," Chief Mark Koller said at an emotional press conference.

This cop knew full well his life was not on the line during this traffic stop. He was bullying a woman with a cigarette, not facing down a gangster with a gun.

So please don't invoke officers who have tragically been murdered during their working day as an excuse for this little Hitler, who is not worthy of his badge.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Oh, any time a bad cop is stripped of his badge it is a good thing for society. Just because doing something doesn't solve every single problem in the world is a poor excuse for not doing the right thing.

I don't think it will change a thing. There will still be bad cops. There will still be good cops. And there will be people still saying that all cops are bad. That's the point I'm making.

 

[katydid23]

rsbm

Not as old as police brutality and abuse of power. I don't see why we can't blame them when they are deserving of it.

Calling him a bully may be totally fair. But many here are accusing the cops of beating her to death and staging a suicide. Her family was leading the charge and calling in the professional protesters for some staged events this weekend.

I think that is totally unfair and off base. We can all have a conversation about this officers lack of professionalism and his bad ego problems and if he should be fired or not. But that is not what the issue seems to be. It is accusations of murder and people totally ignore other evidence of her being a potential suicide victim.

 

[katydid23]

This cop knew full well his life was not on the line during this traffic stop. He was bullying a woman with a cigarette, not facing down a gangster with a gun.

So please don't invoke officers who have tragically been murdered during their working day as an excuse for this little Hitler, who is not worthy of his badge.

How is he supposed to know if she is a gangster with a gun or not? Lots of women have pulled weapons on cops before.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

He had no right to command her to put a cigarette out. Its perfectly legal to smoke in your own car, she knew it and he knew it. He was bullying her.

This officer deserves to be fired for no other reason than what we all saw on that dashcam vid. Of course that won't on its own cure all the problems between LE and the black community, but its the right thing to do anyway.

Yes. He had no right to command her to put out her cigarette. Firing the cop may be the right thing to do but it wont change a thing. JMO