TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #1

[nomoresorrow]

(BBM)

I think victim blaming can go two ways. In this case, the family has been promoting their cause, which is essentially claiming that a cop or a jailer killed their family member and covered it up. They are riling up the public to come and protest and to call for 'justice' for their murder victim.

If it turns out that she did, in fact, hang herself, then is she still the victim? Or can the ones who have been publicly accused of murder be seen as victims here?

I can agree that she should have been under suicide watch. And maybe they should not have plastic liners in their garbage cans...although that has its own problems...
th
I can agree that the cop had an ego and an attitude and did not de-escalate the situation. But I think the blame goes both ways. JMO

Wow, talk about things going two ways... you claim it's not LE's responsibility that Sandra Bland committed suicide in their jail, on their watch, and yet you think this poor dead women's family is responsible if people in the public protest - holy cow.

MO ~

 

[popsicle]

She didn't say she was suicidal did she? I thought she told them she attempted suicide in 2014.

 

[iluvmua]

Imo, Ms Bland cooperated in every way until asked to put her cigarette out - something the officer had no business asking her to do. Then he ordered out of her car for that very reason - something the officer had no business doing. Then she became combative.

To say or suggest she was uncooperative from the start is contrary to the video - she handed over her paperwork as requested and ignored his first bait to argue with him.

Since he only has one year as an officer - or so I read in one article - now would be the time the assess his usefulness in the future.

The reason why he asked her to put out her cig is because it is a safety issue for him and for her.

What if she flinged it at him because she was pissed and he caught on fire? What if she set her own car on fire because she was smoking in her own car?

 

[iluvmua]

She didn't say she was suicidal did she? I thought she told them she attempted suicide in 2014.

My local news said that she wrote down that she was suicidal.

 

[iluvmua]

(bbm)

Well ... yes.

Once a person is in custody, it is the state's job to protect them -- including those who are a threat to themselves.

IF they knew she was suicidal then they should have removed the plastic bag from the wastebasket.

I don't know all the facts thought. time will tell.

 

[iluvmua]

I think the fact that she was pulled over, arrested etc. sat in jail for 3 days while asking her family to post $500 bond is what finally send her over the edge, If suicide is what she did.

jmo

 

[katydid23]

Yes, the #1 rule in America, don't disrespect a police officer, or you will end up dead.

She hung herself.

 

[bluesneakers]

So it is LE's fault she hung herself? They were supposed to prevent that?

Yes, they should have taken steps to prevent it, especially if she'd told them she was suicidal. She was in their care and custody. Their responsibility. That's why they have so many regulations about how to care for and how often to check on people who are being held.

 

[nomoresorrow]

(BBM)

The reason why he asked her to put out her cig is because it is a safety issue for him and for her.

What if she flinged it at him because she was pissed and he caught on fire? What if she set her own car on fire because she was smoking in her own car?

What if, what if, what if...

There is no law against an adult smoking in their own vehicle where children aren't present. All he had to do was hand her the warning/summons but, instead, he was looking to assert his authority and take this to another level. He knew he didn't have the right to ask her to extinguish her cigarette and, IMO, he also speculated that she'd point that out to him...

MO ~

 

[katydid23]

Imo, Ms Bland cooperated in every way until asked to put her cigarette out - something the officer had no business asking her to do. Then he ordered out of her car for that very reason - something the officer had no business doing. Then she became combative.

To say or suggest she was uncooperative from the start is contrary to the video - she handed over her paperwork as requested and ignored his first bait to argue with him.

Since he only has one year as an officer - or so I read in one article - now would be the time the assess his usefulness in the future.

He had every right to ask her to put out her lit cig. It is standard procedure. Burning cigs have been used to cause problems before in one to one interactions so it is standard to ask someone to put it out. She may it seem like her civil rights were being violated by being asked to put out her lit cig. She became aggressive and obstinate at that point, imo.

And he did have a right to ask her to come out of the car. He should have waited for back up though, imo.

 

[popsicle]

Waller County Sheriff Glenn Smith said Sandra Bland told a jailer about the previous suicide attempt sometime after her arrest on July 10.

A second jailer also interviewed Bland, according to the sheriff. The 28-year-old from the Chicago area said she was not depressed but was upset about her arrest, which occurred following a confrontation with a white officer who had stopped her for a minor traffic violation.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/22/dashboard-video-shows-how-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-escalated/

 

[bluesneakers]

She hung herself.

The reason why he asked her to put out her cig is because it is a safety issue for him and for her.

What if she flinged it at him because she was pissed and he caught on fire? What if she set her own car on fire because she was smoking in her own car?

Is that what he said when he told her to put it out? Is there a law that says you can't smoke in your car?

I believe he told her to put it out in an attempt to intimidate and/or provoke her. Or just assert some control. And if he was afraid? I think if you're a police officer afraid of someone smoking a cigarette maybe you're in the wrong career.

 

[katydid23]

He had every right to ask her to put out her lit cig. It is standard procedure. Burning cigs have been used to cause problems before in one to one interactions so it is standard to ask someone to put it out. She may it seem like her civil rights were being violated by being asked to put out her lit cig. She became aggressive and obstinate at that point, imo.

And he did have a right to ask her to come out of the car. He should have waited for back up though, imo.

ETA:
http://potomaclocal.com/2011/06/21/officer-burned-by-cigarette-over-dog/

But the dog’s owner became combative, and officers then tried to arrest her. She resisted and then burned one of the officers with a lit cigarette, said Prince William police spokesman Jonathan Perok.

The woman was eventually taken into custody and the officer suffered minor injuries.

 

[katydid23]

Is that what he said when he told her to put it out? Is there a law that says you can't smoke in your car?

I believe he told her to put it out in an attempt to intimidate and/or provoke her. Or just assert some control. And if he was afraid? I think if you're a police officer afraid of someone smoking a cigarette maybe you're in the wrong career.

It is standard procedure to ask drivers that you are interacting with to put out lit cigs. They are considered a possible 'weapon' if things go sideways.

 

[katydid23]

Is that what he said when he told her to put it out? Is there a law that says you can't smoke in your car?

I believe he told her to put it out in an attempt to intimidate and/or provoke her. Or just assert some control. And if he was afraid? I think if you're a police officer afraid of someone smoking a cigarette maybe you're in the wrong career.

Cops are always 'afraid' of someone they have pulled over until they frisk them and find out if they are on the run from something. It can happen in an instant that they find out the driver is wanted for murder or is running from a robbery. So a cop is always unsure and needs to control the situation. Asking the driver to put out a lit cig is standard.

 

[popsicle]

Breaking911 ‏@Breaking911 [video=twitter;624008572058206208]https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/624008572058206208[/video]
Sandra Bland Told Police During Booking Process That She Previously Attempted Suicide - http://breaking911.com/breaking-officials-release-new-version-of-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-watch/ …

 

[bluesneakers]

“It’s not unusual for an officer to ask someone to put out their cigarette or hang up their phone, that sort of thing,” said attorney Margo Frasier, the police monitor for Austin, Texas. “The question becomes whether they can make you do it.”

Frasier, the former sheriff of Texas’s Travis County, added: “If you are in your own vehicle — assuming it’s a tobacco cigarette — and the officer asks you to put it out, I don’t know of any statute that would require you to do it.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-refused-to-put-out-a-cigarette-was-it-legal/

-

CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin said she advises people that "when you have a police encounter, you want to make it as short and sweet as possible."

"But I don't think that he had the right to ask her to get out of the car because not putting out your cigarette is not cause for an arrest."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/22/us/texas-sandra-bland-arrest/

 

[arkansasmimi]

According to the sheriff's office, the trash bags were allowed inside cells, based on a recommendation by the state's regulator: the Texas Commission on Jail Standards.......

SNIP>>
But after Bland's death, all trash liners have been removed from all cells in the Waller County Jail pending further direction from the state agency, said Capt. Brian Cantrell, chief of investigations for the Waller County sheriff's office.

Cantrell, also present at the news conference in Hempstead on Monday, offered new details about Bland's booking into the jail.

He said the arrest charge against Bland on July 10 — assaulting a public servant — required her to be classified as "high risk" and that was why she was separated from other female inmates. There were no other "high risk" female inmates in the same cell at the time.

Cantrell said Bland had no injuries when she came to the jail. He said she was placed in the cell after a deputy processed her arrest paperwork and read from a sheet of standard questions posed to inmates, asking her about her health, including her mental health.

"There were no reported injuries by Ms. Bland to jail staff and no medical treatment requested," Cantrell said.


more at https://www.texastribune.org/2015/07/20/sandra-blands-death-now-murder-investigation/

 

[bluesneakers]

It is standard procedure to ask drivers that you are interacting with to put out lit cigs. They are considered a possible 'weapon' if things go sideways.

Standard procedure, or law? And why didn't he explain? His first response after she asserted herself (which she had every right to do. she had done nothing wrong) was to force her out of the car. Why was that necessary?

 

[nomoresorrow]

Seth Stoughton, a University of South Carolina law professor and former Florida police officer, said Enicinia missed several opportunities to de-escalate tension and should have explained in calmer tones what he was doing and why.

(BBM)

“He certainly has the legal authority to get her to step out of the car,” Stoughton said. “But in this case, if he is exercising his authority because she defying his direction to put out the cigarette, then that is more based on his ego than public safety.... Just because it is legal to order her out of the car doesn't make it a professional approach in modern policing.

“This is a systemic problem with policing,” Stoughton said. “There is emphasis on compliance over cooperation.”
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-sandra-bland-arrest-experts-20150722-story.html#page=1

Exactly. He can certainly "ask" her to extinguish her cigarette BUT he can't ORDER her to put it out and then, when she points out that she can legally smoke in her own car, BASED ON HER RESPONSE, THEN demands that she get out of the car.