TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #1

[Curious Guy]

You're mistaken, katy. It's not excessive alerts which cause a thread to be shut down. It's excessive belligerence that drives a thread off the rails.

Alerting early, and responsibly, lets the mods know action is required before the situation spins out of control. Unfortunately, in some cases, despite our best efforts, members persist in chasing each other around in endless circles until it becomes clear that any hope of restoring a productive discussion is lost. Then we're left with no choice but to can it.

Of course


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[katydid23]

I wonder if his department has a code of ethics because if it does, he sure did not follow it.

It is just like being a parent. Just because your child is being disrespectful, you don't get to beat them; you are the adult.

He is the professional. The job comes with issues.

If someone can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen

I completely agree. He did a terrible job at keeping his cool. But when this thread first started people were accusing him of killing her and having a conspiracy to cover it up. That is a big stretch and that is why I have been complaining about.

I have no problem criticizing him for failing to stay professional when the driver copped an attitude with him. But I am not going to blame him for her death.

 

[Rocky Road]

Has it been considered that she spent a lot of time trying to get in touch with and leaving messages for her boyfriend, who promised to bail her out, but never showed, and this was what caused her to decline mentally and emotionally? If she was a chronic marijuana user, and in jail for 3 days, she would certainly become more depressed and agitated, then add whatever transpired between her and the boyfriend on the phone, and that he was a "no-show" to help her, in a strange city and state.... she spiraled downward and hit rock bottom. A terrible combination of events to happen in her life over a few days.

 

[bluesneakers]

Has it been considered that she spent a lot of time trying to get in touch with and leaving messages for her boyfriend, who promised to bail her out, but never showed, and this was what caused her to decline mentally and emotionally? If she was a chronic marijuana user, and in jail for 3 days, she would certainly become more depressed and agitated, then add whatever transpired between her and the boyfriend on the phone, and that he was a "no-show" to help her, in a strange city and state.... she spiraled downward and hit rock bottom. A terrible combination of events to happen in her life over a few days.

I thought someone earlier said she wasn't allowed to use the phone? I know there was a comment and a link to the jail's phone use policy but I don't remember if she'd been kept from using the phone.

 

[Rocco]

I thought someone earlier said she wasn't allowed to use the phone? I know there was a comment and a link to the jail's phone use policy but I don't remember if she'd been kept from using the phone.

"Because Pyle and Bland were not in the same cell, Pyle was unable to say if she knew when Bland made any phone calls, but Bland reportedly told her about them and her struggle to post bond.

"She said she kept on trying to call this one person that she moved in [with] here because she said she was from Chicago and ... she was like, ‘It’s just not answering. It's going straight to voicemail and I don’t know why, I don’t know why. He said he'd be here in an hour and its days later,’" Pyle said."

http://news.yahoo.com/sandra-bland-...w-inmate-160504075--abc-news-topstories.html#

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Just as a point of interest, only tangentially related to this case -- I mainly work in remote places where those who are arrested/remanded/etc. need to be flown to larger areas to be processed. Those in custody are accompanied by LE in the same planes on which everyone else flies. Most of those transported smoke, and the RCMP officers who transport them *always* make sure that they can smoke as much as they want before they fly, even though, so far as I can tell, only about 10-20% of them smoke, and probably even fewer like being around someone else's smoke. One constable told me, a while back, that it was just much easier and safer to transport their peeps if they'd had as much to smoke as they'd like. I'm sure that this isn't just a Canadian thing, as well. I think there are probably some good reasons to let someone smoke when they're being questioned. To deprive a smoker a cigarette in her own vehicle -- at a time in which she has no reason to believe that she is under arrest -- could not, IMO, be seen as a way of deescalating an encounter.

You work in Saskatchewan? My dad was born in Regina.

Anyway, I think if Sandra was a heavy smoker, going cold turkey in jail could cause some severe anxiety from nicotine withdrawal.

I think that most jails are smoke free now. Was the one she was in smoke free?

Could that be a contributor to her suicide?

JMO

 

[popsicle]

She had a phone in her cell, all she had to do was put her pin in and call. jmo

 

[bessie]

I agree! LOL I agree with someone on this thread that we don't fully agree on another, but I do respect everyone opinion. Don't care for incorrect info repeated over and over til someone unknowing believes that someone's opinion is a proven fact. Snowballs sometimes.

Thanks. You made my point about the importance of alerting promptly, AND repeatedlly, if necessary.

I don't want to pick on you, but I see a complaint like yours and wonder why the heck didn't that member make a point to let the mods know. We can't read every media article on every case. So, it's very heloful if a member takes a few minutes to type out an alert, or pm, and explain precisely which statements are being posed as fact that shouldn't be. Then we can do a media check for that partcular information, and if nothing turns up, we can stop it before it snowballs.

 

[Rocky Road]

Just as a point of interest, only tangentially related to this case -- I mainly work in remote places where those who are arrested/remanded/etc. need to be flown to larger areas to be processed. Those in custody are accompanied by LE in the same planes on which everyone else flies. Most of those transported smoke, and the RCMP officers who transport them *always* make sure that they can smoke as much as they want before they fly, even though, so far as I can tell, only about 10-20% of them smoke, and probably even fewer like being around someone else's smoke. One constable told me, a while back, that it was just much easier and safer to transport their peeps if they'd had as much to smoke as they'd like. I'm sure that this isn't just a Canadian thing, as well. I think there are probably some good reasons to let someone smoke when they're being questioned. To deprive a smoker a cigarette in her own vehicle -- at a time in which she has no reason to believe that she is under arrest -- could not, IMO, be seen as a way of deescalating an encounter.

This really makes no sense, other than to just appease the smoke/suspect. Nicotine only increases heart rate and blood pressure and anxiety levels of the smoker. What actually calms down a smoker is the deep breathing. I doubt that this lady would have been "deprived" of smoking had she behaved in a civil manner. She could have put it in her ash tray and gone back to it once she was on her merry way. It would be different if she were in an interrogation room and separated by a table, but she was already uncooperative, so a lit cigarette was best to be put out for the moment. Would not have hurt one thing to do so. And, she would not have been under arrest, had she just been nice. The officer wasn't asking too much.

 

[kimlynn]

I completely agree. He did a terrible job at keeping his cool. But when this thread first started people were accusing him of killing her and having a conspiracy to cover it up. That is a big stretch and that is why I have been complaining about.

I have no problem criticizing him for failing to stay professional when the driver copped an attitude with him. But I am not going to blame him for her death.

I blame him for her death. She wouldn't have been in jail if he had any control over his emotions. The charge was trumped up. IMO

 

[Montjoy]

You work in Saskatchewan? My dad was born in Regina.

Anyway, I think if Sandra was a heavy smoker, going cold turkey in jail could cause some severe anxiety from nicotine withdrawal.

I think that most jails are smoke free now. Was the one she was in smoke free?

Could that be a contributor to her suicide?

JMO

No, I mainly work in the northern parts of Nunavut, and sometimes NWT. I am not about to defend smoking, though I basically have to smoke some times for my job. Regardless, if I had to take an adult into custody, and if this person smoked, I would let them smoke as much as they wanted before taking them anywhere. I have no idea if she was allowed to smoke when she was incarcerated, but I will guess that corrections officers would hope that inmates could smoke. It gives them enough control over one part of their awful lives to make them more docile, speaking only from a LE/corrections standpoint.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I thought someone earlier said she wasn't allowed to use the phone? I know there was a comment and a link to the jail's phone use policy but I don't remember if she'd been kept from using the phone.

It looks like she made some calls from jail.

It had been days since LaVaughn Mosley had been told his friend, Sandra Bland, died in her Texas jail cell. He looked at his phone -- two missed calls, and a voicemail buried in the dozens he keeps on his phone.

This friend got at least one call from Sandra while she was in jail.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-sandra-bland-voicemail-friend-20150723-story.html

 

[Rocky Road]

I thought someone earlier said she wasn't allowed to use the phone? I know there was a comment and a link to the jail's phone use policy but I don't remember if she'd been kept from using the phone.

I saw a post that someone said she commented that her boyfriend would be there to bail her out within an hour, but a few days had actually gone by. Maybe she was able to make more than one call.

 

[Rocky Road]

No, I mainly work in the northern parts of Nunavut, and sometimes NWT. I am not about to defend smoking, though I basically have to smoke some times for my job. Regardless, if I had to take an adult into custody, and if this person smoked, I would let them smoke as much as they wanted before taking them anywhere. I have no idea if she was allowed to smoke when she was incarcerated, but I will guess that corrections officers would hope that inmates could smoke. It gives them enough control over one part of their awful lives to make them more docile, speaking only from a LE/corrections standpoint.

Can they smoke inside their cells, or do they have to go to a smoking area to smoke?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

No, I mainly work in the northern parts of Nunavut, and sometimes NWT. I am not about to defend smoking, though I basically have to smoke some times for my job. Regardless, if I had to take an adult into custody, and if this person smoked, I would let them smoke as much as they wanted before taking them anywhere. I have no idea if she was allowed to smoke when she was incarcerated, but I will guess that corrections officers would hope that inmates could smoke. It gives them enough control over one part of their awful lives to make them more docile, speaking only from a LE/corrections standpoint.

I know that corrections used to allow smoking for that very reason but I know that in California it is not allowed.

Next time I talk to my nephew who is a Sergent in California corrections I'm going to ask him how the smoking ban affects new inmates who are smokers.

 

[Montjoy]

Can they smoke inside their cells, or do they have to go to a smoking area to smoke?

Ok, I'm going to respond to two of your posts at once, with respect.

First, regarding the transport of convicts, the guys (well, mainly) are walked out of the airport to smoke before their flights. Just so you know, these airports are about the size of your average 7-11 (convenience store) up north, with a couple of exceptions. No, I lie -- they're actually smaller than that.

As for those incarcerated -- they have public/outdoor areas in which to smoke, in designated times of the day.

Allowing inmates to smoke is a long-standing tradition; in one of the first graduate classes in social economics I had, we were assigned a pretty lovely history of the economy of cigarettes in WW2 POW camps -- cigarettes were used as a currency, which was itself used for many things. Forgive this OT.

 

[Rocky Road]

I blame him for her death. She wouldn't have been in jail if he had any control over his emotions. The charge was trumped up. IMO

She made a choice to end her life. I would think a better direction for blame would be if she did or did not have a psychiatric evaluation based on her behavior and the reasons that she wound up there in the first place. Was she rude and mouthy because of her marijuana use and/or was she a chronic user? What about her driving? That was the cause for the initial stop...so was she driving under the influence? I don't believe anyone can say her death is the officer's fault, just because he arrested her. She made choices throughout the entire course of events, that shaped her situation, and had she acted differently, she would have received a warning and been on her way, and none of this would have happened. It is time that people start taking some responsibility for their own actions. She wouldn't have been in jail if SHE had any control over HER emotions.... Not defending the officer, other than he had a difficult time figuring out how to deal with her. I think he should have waited for backup to arrive before doing anything. IMHO

 

[Rocky Road]

Ok, I'm going to respond to two of your posts at once, with respect.

First, regarding the transport of convicts, the guys (well, mainly) are walked out of the airport to smoke before their flights. Just so you know, these airports are about the size of your average 7-11 (convenience store) up north, with a couple of exceptions. No, I lie -- they're actually smaller than that.

As for those incarcerated -- they have public/outdoor areas in which to smoke, in designated times of the day.

Allowing inmates to smoke is a long-standing tradition; in one of the first graduate classes in social economics I had, we were assigned a pretty lovely history of the economy of cigarettes in WW2 POW camps -- cigarettes were used as a currency, which was itself used for many things. Forgive this OT.

Gotcha, and thanks!

 

[teedie2]

Somehow they are suspecting from the tox results, that she either smoked or ingested a large amount of cannabis while incarcerated. HUH? This is interesting.....stay tuned. JMO

I sure missed that! Do you have a link?

 

[katydid23]

I blame him for her death. She wouldn't have been in jail if he had any control over his emotions. The charge was trumped up. IMO

I cannot blame him for her death if she killed herself. He had no idea she was suicidal.