TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #1

[kimlynn]

She made a choice to end her life. I would think a better direction for blame would be if she did or did not have a psychiatric evaluation based on her behavior and the reasons that she wound up there in the first place. Was she rude and mouthy because of her marijuana use and/or was she a chronic user? What about her driving? That was the cause for the initial stop...so was she driving under the influence? I don't believe anyone can say her death is the officer's fault, just because he arrested her. She made choices throughout the entire course of events, that shaped her situation, and had she acted differently, she would have received a warning and been on her way, and none of this would have happened. It is time that people start taking some responsibility for their own actions. She wouldn't have been in jail if SHE had any control over HER emotions.... Not defending the officer, other than he had a difficult time figuring out how to deal with her. I think he should have waited for backup to arrive before doing anything. IMHO

She did make the choice to end her life and it could have happened anywhere but she was on her way to a new job and by the accounts of family and friends was happy with her lot in life.
Did you watch the video?
He told her she was under arrest during the struggle at the car but refused to tell her why. He later said she kicked him during the arrest.
He had to have a reason for his actions and who knows if he was telling the truth.
It is my belief that he was at fault for this situation so yes I blame him. At the very least he didn't help the situation. IMO

 

[Confusion]

I sure missed that! Do you have a link?

This isn't the best one, but it's the first I saw.

Diepraam said it was unclear whether Bland ingested marijuana before or after she was jailed.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/23/us-usa-texas-death-idUSKCN0PX20G20150723

ETA: Found a slightly better one.

Waller County District Attorney Elton Mathis made the disclosure in a text message to attorney Cannon Lambert, who has called the state's autopsy on the Chicago-area woman defective, Lambert said.

"Looking at the autopsy results and toxicology, it appears she swallowed a large quantity of marijuana or smoked it in the jail," Mathis said in a text message to Lambert that the attorney provided to Reuters.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...marijuana-in-jail-da_55b12ba9e4b08f57d5d3f041

 

[kimlynn]

I cannot blame him for her death if she killed herself. He had no idea she was suicidal.

If I were him I would be feeling a lot of remorse about now. IMO

 

[Montjoy]

I cannot blame him for her death if she killed herself. He had no idea she was suicidal.

I don't blame him for her death, either. And if I'm allowed to say this, and I sincerely mean it without any bit of being patronizing, I salute you, Katy, for being pretty objective about this LE case.

As I see it, there are two issues here -- one is the arrest, and the other is the custody. So far as I know, the two things are not related, but I could be wrong.

The arrest was bad. Everyone knows that. I understand how some may want to defend LE, and I do as well, but this was a pretty dark hour for LE.

The custody appears to have been inadequate. I think that if you gave most high school students about 30 minutes of training, they would understand that SB should have been under suicide watch. And why not? I mean, that is what corrections officers are trained to do.

Now, I think that a problem with this discussion is that some folks have been inclined to draw a straight line from the arrest to Sandra's suicide. Myself, I'm not comfortable doing so. IMO, I think that there were some independent failures here. It was a bad arrest, and she received poor, perhaps liable, custody. Are they related? I can't say, myself. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

 

[katydid23]

If I were him I would be feeling a lot of remorse about now. IMO

He probably does have remorse. But that does not mean he is responsible for her suicide.

 

[kimlynn]

He probably does have remorse. But that does not mean he is responsible for her suicide.

You don't think she ended her life because she was in jail? I'm pretty sure she wasn't happy and that her depression worsened from it.
Bottom line there was zero reason for this cop to order her out of her vehicle and inform her she was under arrest and then couldn't even think of a reason to give her when she asked why.
It was only later he came up with a reason. He was wrong and he put her in the position of being jailed for no reason other than he didn't like her attitude.

 

[Rocky Road]

She did make the choice to end her life and it could have happened anywhere but she was on her way to a new job and by the accounts of family and friends was happy with her lot in life.
Did you watch the video?
He told her she was under arrest during the struggle at the car but refused to tell her why. He later said she kicked him during the arrest.
He had to have a reason for his actions and who knows if he was telling the truth.
It is my belief that he was at fault for this situation so yes I blame him. At the very least he didn't help the situation. IMO

It was a difficult situation, and not what an officer would expect from a driver just pulled over. She was belligerent from the start. She was rude and hateful to every question he asked her, and anyone would have a difficult time trying to talk to someone who refused to act in a civil manner. I did watch the video, and within the first few comments, it reminded me of a smart-alec and difficult teenager talking back to a parent or teacher. It surely took great restraint on the officers part from the beginning, and when he asked her to put out the cigarette and she became even more difficult, he seemed to lose his cool and had had all he could take. I do not blame him one bit. It's pretty clear why he had to arrest her. After the exchange, he could not allow her to drive off and risk an accident. She refused to do what he asked her to do, and he had a reasonable suspicion. Remember, driving is a privilege, not a right! It is in the best interest of the driver to comply when an officer requests them to step out of the car. He did not ask her to do anything illegal or immoral. Had she spoken in a civil manner and acted halfway decent, he would not have requested she put out the cigarette and she would have been back on the road. She set the tone for the entire exchange. So why did she not comply? The majority of people would have set the cigarette in the ash tray and gotten out of the car. I think the officer's mistake was not waiting for another officer to help him with the situation, and she should have been taken to the hospital for a psychiatric consult before being left in a jail cell. And whoever left a plastic bag or anything in the jail cell with her surely violated a policy as well. Not checking on her hourly was another issue. A judge would have set her bail too, so obviously the judge felt she should be in jail at the time. We only hear things one sided in the media anymore...I do agree that the officer did not help the situation, but many things led up to the traffic stop, and then further up until her death. All so avoidable and very sad for so many involved.

 

[katydid23]

You don't think she ended her life because she was in jail? I'm pretty sure she wasn't happy and that her depression worsened from it.
Bottom line there was zero reason for this cop to order her out of her vehicle and inform her she was under arrest and then couldn't even think of a reason to give her when she asked why.
It was only later he came up with a reason. He was wrong and he put her in the position of being jailed for no reason other than he didn't like her attitude.

I think her suicide was because of a history of mental health issues. The cutting scars were indicative of it being ongoing for a time. And she did try it once before, a year ago. Would we blame the father of the baby because he got her pregnant and she would not have tried to kill herself if it wasnt for him?

Her depression worsened because of the situation. Jail made it worse. Her boyfriend ignoring her calls, and not bailing her out made it critically worse. Maybe she felt abandoned by friends and family?

But the cop did not just grab her for no apparent reason. He was doing his job by writing her up for a traffic infraction. She made it go sideways, imo. He should have de-esclated, and he didnt' and I find him at fault for that. But they BOTH were out of line. She put herself into the predicament by being obstinate, hostile and rude.

 

[Rocky Road]

You don't think she ended her life because she was in jail? I'm pretty sure she wasn't happy and that her depression worsened from it.
Bottom line there was zero reason for this cop to order her out of her vehicle and inform her she was under arrest and then couldn't even think of a reason to give her when she asked why.
It was only later he came up with a reason. He was wrong and he put her in the position of being jailed for no reason other than he didn't like her attitude.

One other thing...after reading more about her, I think she was despondent because her boyfriend did not respond to her calls and did not come to bail her out of jail...add that to marijuana use, her inability to reach anyone in her family, her anger toward police and authority, depression she may have had, and a history of suicide attempts, and she had much on her mind. She just did not appear stable and needed help...not sure how that could have happened though.

 

[katydid23]

I don't blame him for her death, either. And if I'm allowed to say this, and I sincerely mean it without any bit of being patronizing, I salute you, Katy, for being pretty objective about this LE case.

As I see it, there are two issues here -- one is the arrest, and the other is the custody. So far as I know, the two things are not related, but I could be wrong.

The arrest was bad. Everyone knows that. I understand how some may want to defend LE, and I do as well, but this was a pretty dark hour for LE.

The custody appears to have been inadequate. I think that if you gave most high school students about 30 minutes of training, they would understand that SB should have been under suicide watch. And why not? I mean, that is what corrections officers are trained to do.

Now, I think that a problem with this discussion is that some folks have been inclined to draw a straight line from the arrest to Sandra's suicide. Myself, I'm not comfortable doing so. IMO, I think that there were some independent failures here. It was a bad arrest, and she received poor, perhaps liable, custody. Are they related? I can't say, myself. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

BBM= :thud: :thud: :thud: :giggle:

 

[kimlynn]

It was a difficult situation, and not what an officer would expect from a driver just pulled over. She was belligerent from the start. She was rude and hateful to every question he asked her, and anyone would have a difficult time trying to talk to someone who refused to act in a civil manner. I did watch the video, and within the first few comments, it reminded me of a smart-alec and difficult teenager talking back to a parent or teacher. It surely took great restraint on the officers part from the beginning, and when he asked her to put out the cigarette and she became even more difficult, he seemed to lose his cool and had had all he could take. I do not blame him one bit. It's pretty clear why he had to arrest her. After the exchange, he could not allow her to drive off and risk an accident. She refused to do what he asked her to do, and he had a reasonable suspicion. Remember, driving is a privilege, not a right! It is in the best interest of the driver to comply when an officer requests them to step out of the car. He did not ask her to do anything illegal or immoral. Had she spoken in a civil manner and acted halfway decent, he would not have requested she put out the cigarette and she would have been back on the road. She set the tone for the entire exchange. So why did she not comply? The majority of people would have set the cigarette in the ash tray and gotten out of the car. I think the officer's mistake was not waiting for another officer to help him with the situation, and she should have been taken to the hospital for a psychiatric consult before being left in a jail cell. And whoever left a plastic bag or anything in the jail cell with her surely violated a policy as well. Not checking on her hourly was another issue. A judge would have set her bail too, so obviously the judge felt she should be in jail at the time. We only hear things one sided in the media anymore...I do agree that the officer did not help the situation, but many things led up to the traffic stop, and then further up until her death. All so avoidable and very sad for so many involved.

I appreciate your response but it's obvious that we don't agree on what happened in this incident. He couldn't allow her to drive away because she answered his question regarding why she was irritated and because she wouldn't put out a cigarette. Highly dangerous behavior that must be watched.lol and sorry for the lol but really.
I thought she was polite in her responses until the car struggle.
At any rate you just can't go around pulling folks out of cars because they don't respond the way you find acceptable and that should include LE. IMO

Night all.

 

[bluesneakers]

Jefferson County DA: Video shows Kindra Chapman used sheet to hang herself in Homewood jail

HOMEWOOD, Ala. (AP) - Prosecutors say video shows 18-year-old Kindra Chapman used a sheet to hang herself at a suburban Birmingham jail after she was arrested on robbery charges.

Jefferson County District Attorney Brandon Falls said in a statement Thursday that his office has reviewed video, investigative reports and more in Chapman's death at the Homewood City Jail.

[Click here to read the full release from the Jefferson County District Attorney's Office]

Falls says video shows Chapman becoming agitated when she was alone in a cell July 14. Falls says video shows Chapman tied a sheet to a support rail and hanged herself. Falls says officers returning an inmate from court to the cell saw Chapman and immediately tried resuscitating her.

http://www.abc3340.com/story/296198...n-used-sheet-to-hang-herself-in-homewood-jail

Sharing this because I think people interested in Sandra's case might be interested in Kindra's.

 

[arkansasmimi]

The last report I read indicated that she hadn't been checked for two or three hrs the morning she was found. IMO

Also on Friday, the Texas attorney general's office released Waller County's custodial death report, which provides the most precise details about Bland's arrest and jail processing.

Jails and law enforcement agencies in Texas are required to file reports on anyone who dies after being taken into police custody. http://www.texastribune.org/2015/07/24/officials-release-sandra-bland-autopsy-report/

See page 3 of the report, shows times. I haven't seen the 2/3 hours time lapse, but this is a legal doc.

 

[Norwegian]

After reading about this case for some days now, I feel like I can comment on it.

It first caught my attention because I'm interested in race relations and there's been many high profile cases within the last years with the PD and civilians.

I've watched the video and my conclusion is that they both were wrong, the way it escalated on their both parts very completely unnecessary. Sandra Bland was too hot tempered, as was the PO. I'm talking about their communication, language, tone etc.

However, I don't beleive SB kicked him. She might have resisted after he tried to grab her in the car, but I don't think she kicked him.

That's a big lie from the PO to justify himself.

It was not necessary for SB to go to jail over this.

About the mental health issue: you don't have to be "raving crazy" to have a mental illness. Many people are diagnozed with "invisible" mental illness and they are extremely good at hiding it from family and friends.

I think SB would be alive if she had not been arrested, I think the negative impact of the whole incident triggered her mental state and made her commit suicide.

I think the discussion now should be about procedures in the legal system, jail etc. to find out how to prevent this from happening again.

 

[Rocky Road]

Someone asks if I had seen the tape, and I had only seen the abbreviated version. This is the original tape for anyone who has not seen it. It was also mentioned that SB was "polite", but I do not see this in any of her responses. As a matter of fact, the officer makes it clear that he was going to give her a warning, but she becomes argumentative. When he asks her what is wrong, she continues to become increasingly confrontational, and it appears that she is looking to provoke the officer and engage him. He actually asks her very nicely to put out her cigarette, and said "please", and she refused. Now, if one stops to think about this....she is new to Texas, being there just one day...she gets pulled over for a minor traffic violation, the officer is letting her go with just a warning, he nicely requests that she put out her cigarette, all the while he has been nice to her. She has increasingly become agitated throughout this dialogue. When he asks her nicely to put out the cigarette while standing at her window, WHY doesn't she comply? Why did she begin to argue with him? She is new to town, new to the state, new to the area, local rules and regulations...why be difficult? Most people would say "I'm sorry" and put out the cigarette! She could light up again once she pulled back out. She had to make a federal case out of it, and keep on and on and on, and then refused to get out of the car. The foul and disrespectful language that she uses toward this officer was horrible. Not only was she disrespectful, she was combative, resistant, uncooperative, and way way out of line. All officers that came to the scene were in agreement regarding her behavior and actions. She kicked the officer, the scratched him, called him names and would not shut up. She just kept on and on and on...it's upsetting to even listen to her and all that she says. I cannot imagine how difficult it was for these officers. It is clear that this woman was putting on a show...you can hear her telling people to record this, talking about going to court, and all this is in line with the things she has posted on her FB page. She was looking to make a scene, and this is disorderly conduct at the least. Plus she assaulted an officer. So, there was no choice but to arrest her, after she made the choice NOT to respect LE. She made many choices on that street that day, and if she had made a better choice, none of this would have happened. It's such a shame that all of this happened, because it not only cost her her life in the end, but created heartache and grief for many. Pitiful situation.

http://www.people.com/article/new-video-released-arrest-sandra-bland

 

[jslk]

Just caught up!

I think I answered my own question re the possibility of tasering - that would have left marks on the skin to be found at the autopsy, yes? And I didn't see any such marks.

There are numerous marks - fresh bruises - on her arms/torso - is that from the scuffles with BE during the arrest?

Lastly - if BE was kicked, is there photographic evidence to prove this?

It's still really unclear to me WHY she was arrested. Obviously the kicking doesn't make sense due to the timing. He orders her out of the car when she refuses to put out the cigarette.

As a teacher, I'd have some serious behaviour management problems if I chose to escalate every encounter in the way that BE did. Getting into a power struggle with someone is never going to end well. You need to choose a resolution that allows everyone to feel like they haven't 'lost face'. JMO.

 

[arkansasmimi]

rsbm --

I don't know if you know any LE at all, but if so, please feel free to ask them if they'd rather be dealing with people who had been smoking pot or people who had been drinking alcohol.

:thinking:
It wasn't bath salts.

According to a statement on the full toxicology report by the Miami-Dade medical examiner, the only drug detected in the lifeless body of infamous Miami face-chewer Rudy Eugene was marijuana.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...juana-medical-examiner-results_n_1632253.html

 

[arkansasmimi]

One story indicates she moved there because of a man she was seeing, and planned to move in with him.

Maybe the friend she left vm for?

 

[Cubby]

I think we can all agree that both sides bore some responsibility....... My next question is why would SB make the decision to end her life over it? I think the charges were trumped up and would probably be thrown out in court. Something made SB choose to not wait until Monday or her next court appearance. It wasn't just the LEO's behavior which led to her decision. It might have been the icing on the cake, but it certainly wasn't the cake and all that went into it.

In reality, with the mental health/illness stigma, I think the family is doing an injustice to Sandra by not speaking out on behalf of those who are too ashamed or proud to seek help. People with undiagnosed and untreated mental health issues matter just as much as black lives matter.

 

[arkansasmimi]

So does Prairie View A&M University doesn't do drug screens on employees?