TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #2

[Deleted member 39678]

Is there a basement thread for Sandra? If not, can we make one ? I mean for the conspiracy angle or are we allowed to discuss that up top ? TIA

If you have some links that support a conspiracy I'd like to see them.

So far all I've seen in regards to any conspiracy theories are not backed up by the facts as we know them or don't make any sense.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Is there a basement thread for Sandra? If not, can we make one ? I mean for the conspiracy angle or are we allowed to discuss that up top ? TIA

oh oh, please do not claim the mugshot was postmortem....:no: ....

 

[Deleted member 39678]

oh oh, please do not claim the mugshot was postmortem....:no: ....

That's one of them that doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[katydid23]

Okay, so in my field of work (social work) we refer to that as "burn out" and there are many healthcare professional' members here (i.e., nurses...) who are familiar with it and can also relate. But see the issue is, whether a cop, a social worker, or a healthcare professional, when the work you do can/does affect human lives deeply and profoundly, it is the professional's responsibility to exercise self-care, seek assistance when/if needed and, if necessary, step away from the work, especially when/if there is a risk of causing harm to others. Step away.

One of my favorite college professors (Trauma & Abuse class) also counseled First Responders. Each week we had a different guest speaker; police officer, doctor, nurse, CPS social worker, firefighter, and an EMT. The common theme heard, regarding police officers, firefighters, and EMT's line of work, was the lack of or limited training and follow-up care they received for the repeated trauma they witnessed and experienced on their jobs day in and day out. We do need to do better - way better. We can't keep putting these individuals out there to do these jobs without providing them with adequate mental health care - with a huge emphasis on self care. Equipping LEA's with all the latest military-style weapons, body armor, and vehicles is/was thought to help keep them safer, however, like many gun proponents claim; "it's not the gun that kills but the person holding the gun." The same then should and can be said for LEOs holding/carrying/using guns; just who is the person behind the gun?

I don't think anyone here wants to see LEO's die; nor do we want to continue to see more civilians killed in what should be routine traffic stops/encounters with law enforcement. With that said, all of the explanations as to why and how LEO's go bad and/or make bad choices may be 100% valid, but the explanations alone can't be the be-all/end-all to the story. We have to do things different and better - for law enforcement and civilians.

MO ~

Finally, we can agree on something. That's progress, right there.

 

[kimlynn]

He said he was in the middle of the street which means he is in moving traffic. So that is why he responded on radio that he wanted to get her out and explain what was going on because he wanted to get out of the street. It is his right to do so.

Just keep in mind that the previous driver he pulled over was allowed to stay in her vehicle. The exchange he had with SB wasn't extended until he asked her to exit her vehicle. He would have been out there a short time if he had handed her the ticket like he did with the previous motorist. IMO
IMO the reason he asked her to leave her car is that he knew he was going to arrest her and that is why he asked her to put out her cigarette.

 

[EllieBee]

Just keep in mind that the previous driver he pulled over was allowed to stay in her vehicle. The exchange he had with SB wasn't extended until he asked her to exit her vehicle. He would have been out there a short time if he had handed her the ticket like he did with the previous motorist. IMO

And the previous driver had no proof of insurance, IIRC. Which is a bigger deal than not using one's blinker. Yet driver #1 was free to go.

In my state, no insurance is a big deal. Not jail time, but very expensive ticket. Did the first motorist get a ticket or a warning?

 

[kimlynn]

And the previous driver had no proof of insurance, IIRC. Which is a bigger deal than not using one's blinker. Yet driver #1 was free to go.

In my state, no insurance is a big deal. Not jail time, but very expensive ticket. Did the first motorist get a ticket or a warning?

I think it was a warning.IMO

 

[Tricia]

Time outs are happening. You must stay on topic please. Thank you

 

[katydid23]

Perhaps they would be if somebody didn't die during an arrest or in custody every few days.

So that is a perfect example of the mess the cops/students have going on. You, an educator, are saying students should feel automatic DISRESPECT for all officers because of some tragic incidents [ which are often justified shootings btw]

So could that also be why the cops sometimes have similar feelings towards some young people they interact with? The cops KNOW many of these people hate them, and want to harm them. So it makes them extra nervous and jumpy. So it is a catch 22.
As long as the students take the attitude that the cops are the enemy., more tragedies will ensue.

ETA: Also, you say it happens every few days. I think it might be exaggeration. But stats say that there is violence/death in about .002% of arrests made. So MILLIONS of arrests are made very day, with out violence, and sadly enough things go off the rails every so often.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I think it was a warning.IMO

Just listened again to video, you're right, it was a warning, BE added there was 'no fine or penalty'.

 

[bluesneakers]

So that is a perfect example of the mess the cops/students have going on. You, an educator, are saying students should feel automatic DISRESPECT for all officers because of some tragic incidents [ which are often justified shootings btw]

So could that also be why the cops sometimes have similar feelings towards some young people they interact with? The cops KNOW many of these people hate them, and want to harm them. So it makes them extra nervous and jumpy. So it is a catch 22.
As long as the students take the attitude that the cops are the enemy., more tragedies will ensue.

ETA: Also, you say it happens every few days. I think it might be exaggeration. But stats say that there is violence/death in about .002% of arrests made. So MILLIONS of arrests are made very day, with out violence, and sadly enough things go off the rails every so often.

But cops have a choice to not be police officers if they don't want to interact with people. It's not a Catch-22. Citizens shouldn't be the enemy. Not respecting a police officer isn't a crime. Not trusting a police officer isn't a crime and, imo, might very well be in your own best interest.

 

[BellaVita]

And the previous driver had no proof of insurance, IIRC. Which is a bigger deal than not using one's blinker. Yet driver #1 was free to go.

In my state, no insurance is a big deal. Not jail time, but very expensive ticket. Did the first motorist get a ticket or a warning?

http://www.texassure.com/faqLE.html

What if I don't have my proof of insurance card, and TexasSure verifies my coverage, will I get a ticket?

For the drivers benefit, the proof of insurance card should be carried at all times. The law requires "the motorist or operator of a vehicle to provide evidence of financial responsibility." Further, Transportation Code 601.053(c) as added by the 83rd Texas Legislature requires a peace officer with access to the verification program to check insurance coverage through TexasSure prior to issuing a citation to a driver who cannot present their insurance card. It is important to note that not all law enforcement agencies have access to the system.

 

[KaaBoom]

He wanted her to exit her car so that she could sign the ticket or warning and he could explain it to her....Many have weighed in on this earlier today. It is NOT necessary to exit your car to sign, or receive a verbal explanation about what you are signing. In my 68 years, and a few tickets, I have NEVER been ordered to exit my car. JMO. Of course, it is unpleasant, but no officer that I can recall was intimidating. If they had been, I know myself well enough to know that they would have gotten an earful. JMO

Yep, I have been pulled over too many times to even count. Every single ticket I received, was handed to me through the window. 95% through the driver side, 5% passenger side, but all through the windows. The only times I was order out of my car, was a few times when they wanted to search my car. In those cases, I was handcuffed, so I wouldn't have been able to sign a ticket outside.

There is no logical reason to order her out of the car to sign the ticket. That is not police procedure anywhere. As a matter of fact police officers get very upset whenever anyone tries to get out of their car during a traffic stop. The police officer is most safe when the person stays inside their car.

The cop was just messing with Sandra Bland and trying to provoke her when he ordered her out of the car.

 

[Nova]

So that is a perfect example of the mess the cops/students have going on. You, an educator, are saying students should feel automatic DISRESPECT for all officers because of some tragic incidents [ which are often justified shootings btw]

So could that also be why the cops sometimes have similar feelings towards some young people they interact with? The cops KNOW many of these people hate them, and want to harm them. So it makes them extra nervous and jumpy. So it is a catch 22.
As long as the students take the attitude that the cops are the enemy., more tragedies will ensue.

ETA: Also, you say it happens every few days. I think it might be exaggeration. But stats say that there is violence/death in about .002% of arrests made. So MILLIONS of arrests are made very day, with out violence, and sadly enough things go off the rails every so often.

1. I am retired. But teaching has its own difficulties (though the consequences aren't lethal, one hopes). Teachers also deal with innate hostility, disrespect, a sense of entitlement and back-talk. A professional teacher deals with all these without losing her cool or lowering herself to the disgruntled student's behavior. If she doesn't, she loses the respect of her class.

2. I never told students to disrespect LE; to do so would have put the students themselves in danger. I did teach a play or two that dealt with LE misconduct, but I never suggested all officers were bad. As I said, that hasn't been my experience.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

And the previous driver had no proof of insurance, IIRC. Which is a bigger deal than not using one's blinker. Yet driver #1 was free to go.

In my state, no insurance is a big deal. Not jail time, but very expensive ticket. Did the first motorist get a ticket or a warning?

It's interesting that Sandra has had a problem with not having auto insurance also.


March of 2013 – Bland was stopped in Crestwood Township while driving a 2013 Cadillac DeVille and received two citations – for speeding 21-25 mph above the limit, and for operating an uninsured motor vehicle. She was fined $200, which – according to Cook County Court records – has not been paid.

February of 2014 – Bland was stopped by Lombard Police and charged with operating an uninsured motor vehicle and driving with expired license plates. She was convicted in both charges and fined, but by May of 2014 court records show that she still owed $2,769.00 in fines, and the judge ordered that the Illinois Secretary of State be notified of her failure to pay

March 3, 2014 – Naperville Police cited Bland for operating an uninsured motor vehicle. Court records show she was ordered to pay a fine, but was cited twice for failure to pay. In June of 2014 the court ordered that the Illinois Secretary of State be notified, and the docket lists a $1,313.00 balance still due.

March 8, 2014 – Approximately five days after her stop in Naperville, Bland was stopped by police in Lombard and charged with two counts of driving under the influence; speeding 15-20 mph over the speed limit; improper lane usage; disobeying a traffic control signal; failing to signal when changing lanes; driving on a suspended license, and operating an uninsured motor vehicle. The court found her guilty of one DUI charge, and all the other charges were dismissed. She received court supervision and was fined, and court records show that she still owes $3,132.00 in this case. (A spokesman with the Illinois Secretary of State’s office says Bland’s driver’s license was automatically suspended for six months – until November of 2014 – as a result of this DUI conviction.)

​

That shows a total disregard for buying necessary auto insurance.
​

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http://www.nbcchicago.com/investiga...revious-Encounters-With-Police-316025661.html

 

[katydid23]

But cops have a choice to not be police officers if they don't want to interact with people. It's not a Catch-22. Citizens shouldn't be the enemy. Not respecting a police officer isn't a crime. Not trusting a police officer isn't a crime and, imo, might very well be in your own best interest.

Who says cops don't want to interact with people? Quite the opposite. The cops I know LOVE people and want to help which is why they put on their badge each day. I know it is hard for you to believe but I have seen it with my own eyes. I don't know any cops that have Bullet of the Month clubs so we must have hung around with different precincts.

And when you say that citizens SHOULDNT be the enemy, I totally agree. But sadly enough, many times they are.

 

[katydid23]

Yep, I have been pulled over too many times to even count. Every single ticket I received, was handed to me through the window. 95% through the driver side, 5% passenger side, but all through the windows. The only times I was order out of my car, was a few times when they wanted to search my car. In those cases, I was handcuffed, so I wouldn't have been able to sign a ticket outside.

There is no logical reason to order her out of the car to sign the ticket. That is not police procedure anywhere. As a matter of fact police officers get very upset whenever anyone tries to get out of their car during a traffic stop. The police officer is most safe when the person stays inside their car.

The cop was just messing with Sandra Bland and trying to provoke her when he ordered her out of the car.

No Wonder you hate cops so much.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

http://www.texassure.com/faqLE.html

What if I don't have my proof of insurance card, and TexasSure verifies my coverage, will I get a ticket?

For the drivers benefit, the proof of insurance card should be carried at all times. The law requires "the motorist or operator of a vehicle to provide evidence of financial responsibility." Further, Transportation Code 601.053(c) as added by the 83rd Texas Legislature requires a peace officer with access to the verification program to check insurance coverage through TexasSure prior to issuing a citation to a driver who cannot present their insurance card. It is important to note that not all law enforcement agencies have access to the system.

It's good to note that not having "proof" of insurance is not the same as not actually having insurance.

You can have legal coverage and make the mistake of not having "proof" to give to an officer. JMO

 

[KaaBoom]

(I have not read all the posts here or posted at all on this thread, but just wanted to mention fwiw re: the smoking discussion that on the show COPS, in both the older and newer episodes I've seen, it seems I have observed many instances where the policeman asks the person to put out their cigarette; also, if the person asks if they can please smoke a cigarette, say before they go to jail, the cops always says no, from what I've seen, jmo.)

But supposedly at that point she was not going to jail. She was just being handed a warning. So that is not relevant.

 

[bluesneakers]

Yep, I have been pulled over too many times to even count. Every single ticket I received, was handed to me through the window. 95% through the driver side, 5% passenger side, but all through the windows. The only times I was order out of my car, was a few times when they wanted to search my car. In those cases, I was handcuffed, so I wouldn't have been able to sign a ticket outside.

There is no logical reason to order her out of the car to sign the ticket. That is not police procedure anywhere. As a matter of fact police officers get very upset whenever anyone tries to get out of their car during a traffic stop. The police officer is most safe when the person stays inside their car.

The cop was just messing with Sandra Bland and trying to provoke her when he ordered her out of the car.

The only time I had to get out of my car was when they towed it for an expired tag, but when I saw the tow truck arriving I knew that's what was going to happen so he never ordered me to get out. I waited until he explained what was happening and asked "Do I get out of the car now?" I've always assumed getting out meant arrest.