TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #3

[BritsKate]

So to help with that polarization, you think it would be good to name a street after Sandra Bland? It sounds like it is even MORE polarizing, imo.

I think there have been about 6 cops assaulted/killed in the past 2 days. Most of them during traffic stops. As long as citizens continue to shoot cops in the head when they step out of their patrol cars, cops are going to ask people like Sandra Bland to put out their cigs and step out of their cars. JMO


ETA: A cop was shot in the head in traffic stop in Louisiana today, two cops shot in Troy, NY yesterday, a cop was dragged by a vehicle in Wichita and in critical condition, and a cop on life support in Florida since Friday night.

That's absolutely horrible, of course, but how is that justification for this officer not doing his job properly? The DPS has said BE's actions were in the wrong so it's kind of odd how people keep defending his actions when his own employer won't. Isn't that essentially advocating all officers violate their own departments procedures when and if it suits them? All officers possibly trample civil liberties, because they're no more constitutional experts than the people they're detaining, merely as a safety precaution? Do we simply accept a cop acting with absolute authority, regardless of departmental rules or consitutional law, because other cops in other places have been victims of violence themselves?

In the preliminary review of the traffic stop that occurred in Prairie View on July 10, 2015, involving Sandra Bland, we have identified violations of the department’s procedures regarding traffic stops and the department’s courtesy policy.

http://www.dps.texas.gov/director_staff/media_and_communications/2015/pr20150717.htm

 

[katydid23]

That's absolutely horrible, of course, but how is that justification for this officer not doing his job properly? The DPS has said BE's actions were in the wrong so it's kind of odd how people keep defending his actions when his own employer won't. Isn't that essentially advocating all officers violate their own departments procedures when and if it suits them? All officers possibly trample civil liberties, because they're no more constitutional experts than the people they're detaining, merely as a safety precaution? Do we simply accept a cop acting with absolute authority, regardless of departmental rules or consitutional law, because other cops in other places have been victims of violence themselves?


http://www.dps.texas.gov/director_staff/media_and_communications/2015/pr20150717.htm

I am not trying to 'justify' his actions. I am just trying to help people understand why many cops are nervous when making traffic stops. They feel often endangered. I am sure I will hear guffaws and tomatoes will be thrown. But it is true. Cops are very frightened when they make stops. Rightfully so, imo.

 

[DeDee]

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/19/604340...er-on-the-deeply-dysfunctional-ferguson-court

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w-whitehead/prison-privatization_b_1414467.html

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/06/23/get-out-of-jail-inc

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...t-louis-county-missouri-profits-from-poverty/

http://time.com/3446372/criminal-justice-prisoners-profit/

http://www.thenation.com/article/its-not-just-ferguson/

There is an old adage that remains true today. "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime." People who break the law while driving on our roads should pay fines if they are charged with committing an infraction. If anyone, including Sandra Bland, has outstanding fines, they must be paid. It is not optional. We don't just write their debt off of the books due to hardships. They have committed a crime and must pay their fines to be square for the safety of the other motorists.

How many people are arrested, detained and fined for driving without a driver's license or lack of insurance? Their license was most likely suspended because of a DUI arrest. Yet, under this logic, the folks are poor so they should be given no fines because they cannot pay them. Charging fines is the only way we have of "teaching" people that it is not okay to break the law.

I viewed the entire webcam from the officer's last stop until he took SB to the sidewalk. He was being kind and courteous to the last driver. I saw Sandra's car turn right up ahead onto the street after a "California stop", which is one where the driver rolls slowly thru the intersection. She turns right without signaling. The officer performs a Uturn but never charges her with the first offense. She was charged with failure to signal a lane change when she noticed he was behind her vehicle and she pulled over. It is against the law to switch lanes without signaling first. In my eyes from viewing the webcam, she committed three infractions.

I know to make sure the officer can see my hands at all times during a traffic stop. Guess I watch too many cops and robber shows. When an officer told me years ago that I ran "his" stop sign. I immediately apologized even though my thought was "Your stop sign?".

I am filled with sorrow over SBs death while being held in jail. It appeared her life was perhaps beginning to look brighter with the new job acquisition. Folks who drive just need to bear in mind that there appears to be a war on our police officers. They will not be taking too many chances when they pull someone over who is being disobedient or who is calling them deviant names and using curse words. OTOH, I listened to an attorney analyze this particular situation on TV. He said she should not have been ordered to remove herself from the vehicle. If that is the case, the officer was wrong in demanding it.

JMHO and all that jazz

 

[human]

Please keep my question in the context it was asked. I said :


"As long as citizens continue to shoot cops in the head when they step out of their patrol cars, cops are going to ask people like Sandra Bland to put out their cigs and step out of their cars. JMO"


So my statement was that as long as cops are being shot /assaulted at this rate, then people like Sandra, who are being difficult, non-compliant, resistant, are going to be raising red flags in a cops mind. JMO

I think it has been revealed over and over again that she was cooperating . There has been documentation posted just recently.

 

[human]

I am not trying to 'justify' his actions. I am just trying to help people understand why many cops are nervous when making traffic stops. They feel often endangered. I am sure I will hear guffaws and tomatoes will be thrown. But it is true. Cops are very frightened when they make stops. Rightfully so, imo.

Cops are frightened basically about all kinds of situations. Perhaps we should start asking why this is true in the US and not so true in other places

 

[katydid23]

Cops are frightened basically about all kinds of situations. Perhaps we should start asking why this is true in the US and not so true in other places

Do other countries have any cities where 10 to 20 people are shot every weekend by armed gang members? I can't think of any.

 

[kimlynn]

Please keep my question in the context it was asked. I said :


"As long as citizens continue to shoot cops in the head when they step out of their patrol cars, cops are going to ask people like Sandra Bland to put out their cigs and step out of their cars. JMO"


So my statement was that as long as cops are being shot /assaulted at this rate, then people like Sandra, who are being difficult, non-compliant, resistant, are going to be raising red flags in a cops mind. JMO

A cigarette is as dangerous to LE as a gun? IMO

 

[human]

Do other countries have any cities where 10 to 20 people are shot every weekend by armed gang members? I can't think of any.

That is part of the clue about the US as to what might be wrong

 

[bluesneakers]

That is part of the clue about the US as to what might be wrong

I agree, and the solution isn't for LE to crack down harder on motorists.

 

[katydid23]

That is part of the clue about the US as to what might be wrong

Exactly. And our cops are caught in the middle of it. They have no idea who is going to pull out a gun and shoot them.

 

[katydid23]

I agree, and the solution isn't for LE to crack down harder on motorists.

Actually, cracking down on motorists is very effective in getting guns/drugs/wanted criminals off of the streets. MANY arrests begin by traffic infractions.

 

[katydid23]

A cigarette is as dangerous to LE as a gun? IMO

of course not. But I think people do not realize that it is always in the back of a cops mind that the driver might have a weapon or may suddenly do something aggressive. As I said, SEVEN cops were injured/killed in traffic stops in the past few days.

 

[kimlynn]

of course not. But I think people do not realize that it is always in the back of a cops mind that the driver might have a weapon or may suddenly do something aggressive. As I said, SEVEN cops were injured/killed in traffic stops in the past few days.

But she was smoking a cigarette. How do you go from smoking to she may have a weapon?
No matter...it is what it is. IMO

 

[KaaBoom]

Do other countries have any cities where 10 to 20 people are shot every weekend by armed gang members? I can't think of any.

Actually, cracking down on motorists is very effective in getting guns/drugs/wanted criminals off of the streets. MANY arrests begin by traffic infractions.

<modsnip> If harassing innocent motorists over minor traffic infractions is so effective in getting guns, drugs, wanted criminals off of the streets, then why are 10 to 20 people getting shot every weekend by armed gang members?

 

[katydid23]

<modsnip> If harassing innocent motorists over minor traffic infractions is so effective in getting guns, drugs, wanted criminals off of the streets, then why are 10 to 20 people getting shot every weekend by armed gang members?

Because they could have been 30 or 40 shootings if not for the arrests made during traffic stops.

 

[Montjoy]

Because they could have been 30 or 40 shootings if not for the arrests made during traffic stops.

Source?

 

[katydid23]

<modsnip> If harassing innocent motorists over minor traffic infractions is so effective in getting guns, drugs, wanted criminals off of the streets, then why are 10 to 20 people getting shot every weekend by armed gang members?

Are they 'innocent' if they broke a law, no matter how minor? If someone is driving without a registered car or without brake lights, then they are subject to be pulled over. And often it is found they have no valid license or insurance or they have an open warrant. They may even have an illegal weapon or hard drugs. That happens quite a bit.

 

[katydid23]

Source?

notice the word 'could'?

 

[Montjoy]

notice the word 'could'?

By your logic, someone would be just as correct if they said that they 'could' be causing 20-30 more shootings by their regular abuses of power.

Regarding traffic stops -- they are not effective for preventing other crimes, especially in light of the biases of LE:


"A study in Arizona shows that during 2006-2007, the state highway patrol was significantly more likely to stop African Americans and Hispanics than Whites on all the highways studied, while Native Americans and persons of Middle Eastern descent were more likely to be stopped on nearly all the highways studied. The highway patrol was 3.5 times more likely to search a stopped Native American than a White, and 2.5 times more likely to search a stopped African American or Hispanic.

The Arizona study also shows that racial profiling is counterproductive and a misallocation of scarce law enforcement resources. Although Native Americans, Hispanics, Middle Easterners, and Asians were far more likely to be stopped and searched than Whites on Arizona's highways, Whites who were searched were more likely to be transporting drugs, guns, or other contraband. While African Americans were twice as likely as Whites to be stopped and searched, the rates of contraband seizures for the two groups were comparable."

http://www.civilrights.org/publicat...acial.html?referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/

 

[katydid23]

Source?

But I will tell you how I know that to be true. I have a lot of conversations with local cops that are in my family. And so at family BBQ's they talk about their work experiences sometimes.

I know for a fact that one of the main priorities for street cops is public safety and keeping the peace. And one of their main goals is to get illegal weapons off street and to get criminals off the street. HOW can they do that when out on patrol?

Every time that I have heard from a friend that they 'bagged' illegal weapons or caught someone hiding from a warrant, it has been because of a traffic stop. They have taken automatic weapons, rifles, sawed shotguns off the street because of various traffic infractions that allowed them to make the stops.

So I stand by my statement. There are LESS driveby shootings and murders as a direct result of traffic stops for minor infractions.