TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #3

[bluesneakers]

rsbm -

I agree with you on this point. But I don't see keeping and promoting all of the jerks as a solution that the US should be proud of.

It makes me think they need to tighten up their recruitment standards, and then make the standards even tighter when they hire and promote. And who knows, maybe getting rid of all the jerks would make more not-jerks interested in the job.

 

[KateB]

Which video did you see which him on top of a handcuffed woman? In the cell phone video the person over SB is the female officer, Trooper BE, has his Trooper hat on. He is on her LEFT SIDE http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/ne...deo-Sandra-Blands-arrest-later-died-jail.html. Then he goes and opens the Prairie View female officers patrol car. The other patrol car dash cam, SB is already in the Prairie View patrol car. SB walked from her car to the sidewalk area, but she was not standing there and getting handcuffed she was moving around you can hear the Trooper telling her multiple time to stand still, so he could cuff her.

The video in your link changes on refresh. No wonder I am confused. I watched the bystander cellphone video clearly shows BE with a hat on standing over Sandra. Refreshed the page and the dash cam video begins and the part the bystander captured is out of range of it.
So I'm still looking for the video of the female officer standing over Sandra.

If the point is when was she handcuffed, disregard this post. She's on all 4's still in the video you linked.

 

[BellaVita]

It is based on that she never should have been taken to jail for a minor traffic violation. It does appear that by talking back, she incited BE to pull his taser and violate her civil rights. Her mental illness resulting in the suicide may not would have happened if BE had respected her rights to express her opinion. That does not come from any DMV handbook, either.

It is my understanding that in TX a person can be arrested for any offense, no matter how minor. Whether anybody likes it or not, that's how it is. Personally, I don't feel she was fit to be driving based on prior offenses and more recent info concerning her state of mind and THC levels. The officer didn't kill her. Where were friends and family to bail her out?

 

[kimlynn]

I've followed this case from the very beginning, since I am in Texas and it's been huge news here.

Here's the deal (and maybe some other posters have said this too, I haven't read the whole 12 pages).

You don't backchat a cop. You don't backchat a coach, a sports referee, a teacher, a principal, a TSA officer, an IRS official, a bouncer, a judge, or a cop. You aren't on an equal footing in the relationship. They have command of the situation, and can't be expected to have to cajole/plead with/convince people to do what they are being asked to do and offer explanations for their requests. We as a society have kind of forgotten that people in certain positions are to be obeyed when they tell you what to do. Within reason. And although this cop was a jerk and pulled her over for not using a turn signal, he was giving her a warning and not a ticket. At which point she started backchatting him and then when he requested that she put the cigarette out (kind of an unreasonable jerky thing to ask, he really didn't need her to do it) she flat refused him and then refused to get out of the car when told to exit the vehicle.

These aren't two citizens on equal footing, one telling the other what to do. This is a cop telling her to do this. What would our public places be like, if everytime a cop told someone to go sit on the curb, vacate the location, etc. got backchat and refusal to cooperate? Bedlam is what.

It's a great skill, really, knowing when to shut your mouth. She should have shut her mouth, put out her cigarette, taken her warning ticket and left. And maybe written something to the police chief about being treated disrespectfully.

If all the cops who were jerks were all fired, we wouldn't have enough cops to do their job.

That is certainly a skill I've taught my kids. Shut your mouth. Don't go on and on and on refusing to get out of the car, and saying ooohhhhhhhh, I can't WAIT to see you in court, ooohhh, I can't wait til this goes to court.

Sad that her family wouldn't come bail her out before tragically she killed herself.

I don't know how reasonable it was to ask SB to exit her vehicle for a minor traffic infraction but he did have the right to do so. I'm not so sure anything would have been different if she had done everything he asked her to do.
He was angry and as you say he had more power than she did.
You post reminded me of a poem by Martin Niemoller and while a bit on the dramatic side ...I hope it's okay to post it.

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

Maybe part of the problem is people are content as long as they can get along and get by. IMO

 

[JeannaT]

I don't know how reasonable it was to ask SB to exit her vehicle for a minor traffic infraction but he did have the right to do so. I'm not so sure anything would have been different if she had done everything he asked her to do.
He was angry and as you say he had more power than she did.
You post reminded me of a poem by Martin Niemoller and while a bit on the dramatic side ...I hope it's okay to post it.

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

Maybe part of the problem is people are content as long as they can get along and get by. IMO

Right. I've seen that writing before. If the cop were asking something agregoius - or marching people out of their homes in the middle of the night at gunpoint - I'd agree with you. I totally agree that the masses need to stick up for the abused. But in this case, I am a "shut your mouthist". Honestly, as a society, we can't function if every single person questions at length a cop's request. Just do it. It's not like he's asking to have sex with her or demanding she run over her dog on the road. If cops lose the ability to tell citizens what to do, this will reach a crisis where bedlam will occur.

This jerk cop is not the Third Reich. He's a jerk, and get through it and get past it.

I'm white, middle class, as are my kids. We've all had to deal with a**hole cops. You just button your lips and move on.

 

[kimlynn]

Right. I've seen that writing before. If the cop were asking something agregoius - or marching people out of their homes in the middle of the night at gunpoint - I'd agree with you. I totally agree that the masses need to stick up for the abused. But in this case, I am a "shut your mouthist". Honestly, as a society, we can't function if every single person questions at length a cop's request. Just do it. It's not like he's asking to have sex with her or demanding she run over her dog on the road. If cops lose the ability to tell citizens what to do, this will reach a crisis where bedlam will occur.

This jerk cop is not the Third Reich. He's a jerk, and get through it and get past it.

I'm white, middle class, as are my kids. We've all had to deal with a**hole cops. You just button your lips and move on.

Go along to get along. My mother used to tell me the same but it was never in my nature not to speak up for myself or others.
Another was bite your nose off to spite your face.lol
I get what you are saying about the poem. It was dramatic but your post brought it to mind.
I really think that if SB had put out her cig and played nice he still would have found something to snatch her up for.
He was angry because she answered honestly as to why she was irritated.
Honesty wasn't the best policy in this case.IMO

 

[Montjoy]

Every time someone 'buttons their lips' they are basically condoning abusive behavior, so it multiplies, bad cops are emboldened, and the sickness of the system spreads.

It's largely because people have kept 'buttoning their lips', taking the abuse, that things have gotten this bad.

LE knows who is vulnerable, who is powerless -- like all abusers, those are the ones who bullies and abusers target. If you haven't been treated like SB in the past, it's probably partly because LE figured that you'd raise a stink, so you were a risk.

Enough is enough.

 

[EllieBee]

During a traffic stop, do not answer questions that are not related to the stop, such as where are you coming from or where you are going, if you are carrying large sums of cash, where your work, or what the purpose of your travel is. If the officer persists with these questions, tell him you want to speak with your attorney. If the officer tells you that you are free to go, then LEAVE. Do not agree to stay and answer more questions.

3. If a police officer asks you to exit your car, roll your window up, exit the car and immediately close the car door. Lock the car door and place your keys in your pocket. If passengers are asked to exit the car, tell them to do the same thing.http://jayrameylaw.com/know-your-rights/

I got pulled one time, for speeding. I was freaking out because I always drive like I got Miss Daisy in the back seat. But I was over state lines, heading to Houston.

The officer was polite, but asked me where I was going, who I was going to be staying with, what kind of places I visited in Houston, why I had so much luggage (I was going for a month's stay) what my job was, and some other kind of personal questions that I was kind of uncomfortable answering.

It was after that stop that my DD, who had studied criminology in CC for credits while in HS, told me exactly what you posted above!

I was in shock, telling her I thought you had to answer ANYTHING a cop asked you!

This was later backed up by a colleague with a background in LE.

Thanks for the info. I think this will be of value to many of us.



ETA: i actually WAS speeding. Forgot to say that. It was 8 miles over. So my ticket was not too pricey.

 

[kimlynn]

Trooper in Sandra Bland arrest had been disciplined.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trooper-in-sandra-bland-arrest-had-been-disciplined/

 

[EllieBee]

Trooper in Sandra Bland arrest had been disciplined.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trooper-in-sandra-bland-arrest-had-been-disciplined/

Well. Knock me over with a feather.

 

[scmom]

Doesn't sound like he was on the job though.
From the article posted above: Encinia's performance evaluation for September and October 2014 referred to him receiving "a written counseling for unprofessional conduct... occurring while at a school in Austin." The circumstances weren't specified.

 

[EllieBee]

Right. I've seen that writing before. If the cop were asking something agregoius - or marching people out of their homes in the middle of the night at gunpoint - I'd agree with you. I totally ddagree that the masses need to stick up for the abused. But in this case, I am a "shut your mouthist". Honestly, as a society, we can't function if every single person questions at length a cop's request. Just do it. It's not like he's asking to have sex with her or demanding she run over her dog on the road. If cops lose the ability to tell citizens what to do, this will reach a crisis where bedlam will occur.

This jerk cop is not the Third Reich. He's a jerk, and get through it and get past it.

I'm white, middle class, as are my kids. We've all had to deal with a**hole cops. You just button your lips and move on.

Most of Europe thought Hitler was reasonable. Despite what side they profess to take today, in hindsight.

Especially the nobility and upper classes. Who, of course were not in the cross hairs of the Third Reich.

When people shut up and allow terrible thing to happen because they don't happen to THEM, it is still criminal.

 

[EllieBee]

Doesn't sound like he was on the job though.
From the article posted above: Encinia's performance evaluation for September and October 2014 referred to him receiving "a written counseling for unprofessional conduct... occurring while at a school in Austin." The circumstances weren't specified.

"Background checks? We don't need no stinking background checks!"

 

[kimlynn]

Well. Knock me over with a feather.

Yeah that was a teaser that left me wanting more.

http://www.greenwichtime.com/news/texas/article/Trooper-in-Sandra-Bland-arrest-had-been-6418687.php

From the article above...

According to his personnel file, Encinia was selected for the Trooper Trainee Academy in December 2013, joined the Department of Public Safety in June 2014 as a probationary trooper and completed his probation in June 2015, becoming a Highway Patrol trooper.

Didn't take him long to get in trouble. IMO

 

[KateB]

AUSTIN, TEXAS — The top boss over the Texas trooper who arrested Sandra Bland said there was reason to pull her over for failing to signal a lane change and told lawmakers Thursday that the trooper remains on the state payroll because the investigation is still playing out.

"There was a reason, if you look at it from a traffic violation standpoint," Texas Department of Public Safety Director Steve McCraw said, responding to sometimes pointed questions from lawmakers during a hearing at the state Capitol. "But again, I don't want to prejudge. I don't know what the trooper is going to say in terms of when he's interviewed. When the investigation is over with, I'll be able to assess."

He later told reporters that while he had not yet spoken to Trooper Brian Encinia, the Texas Rangers and FBI have interviewed the trooper
Read more at http://www.wral.com/texas-trooper-s...op-sandra-bland/14803465/#eZodE2BQpk7G1Q7T.99

The entire hearing is archived online. It can be watched here:
direct link: http://tlchouse.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=37&clip_id=11407
Texas House of Representatives Committee Broadcast Archives Index:
http://www.house.state.tx.us/video-audio/committee-broadcasts/

McCraw Hammered at Hearing on Bland Case
http://www.texastribune.org/2015/07/30/lawmakers-review-county-jail-procedures-following-/

 

[arkansasmimi]

Not sure about SD yet, but I'm sure about SB. She died because she killed herself, not because she talked back to a police officer. Such headlines are untruthful and inflammatory. In the case of SB, no basis in fact at all.

:goodpost:

 

[arkansasmimi]

It is based on that she never should have been taken to jail for a minor traffic violation. It does appear that by talking back, she incited BE to pull his taser and violate her civil rights. Her mental illness resulting in the suicide may not would have happened if BE had respected her rights to express her opinion. That does not come from any DMV handbook, either.

Respectfully she wasnt taken to jail for a minor traffic violation. She was arrested for Assault on a Public Servant. Per her book in info and her court docket .

 

[scmom]

So the traffic stop was legal. Asking her to get out of the car was legal. Then she refused to get out of the car so she was non-compliant. Instead of using pepper spray, a taser, his gun, or his fists he pulled her out of the car and handcuffed her.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Looks like the ACLU says the same thing.... https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-if-youre-stopped-police-immigration-agents-or-fbi

 

[arkansasmimi]

Honest and Serious question. I keep reading here on these threads that Sandra Bland's Civil Rights were violated. I have read a lot of stuff, concerning Civil Rights. Can someone tell me WHAT RIGHTS WERE VIOLATED? Thank You in advance.