TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #3

  • #761
O/T kinda....

Sheriff fires second deputy over incident with Metro driver who wore body camera

snipped...

At Caballero’s request, Shoblom wrote a report, stating that Kirkpatrick yelled and used the profanity, with the same improper grammar.

Caballero and Shoblom were unaware that Kirkpatrick was wearing glasses with a built-in video camera, which showed Kirkpatrick saying, “I’m expressing how frustrated I am at the fact that I got three deputies that don’t do anything when I need help!”


http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...bus-driver-of-profanity-fired-for-dishonesty/

The improper grammar is a nice touch, like they colluded to implicate the driver of using double negatives. Eye-roll. (I don't understand why they wouldn't help the driver but that's even farther OT.)
 
  • #762
We still seem to be hung up on body cameras. :) The thoughtful list posted yesterday on this thread of ways to prevent police from behaving improperly is now very long. Body cams are only one small and very complex aspect of the solution. Body cams don't address attitudes. I think we can agree that many other points on the list do address attitudes and deserve discussion too if there is interest on this thread in considering solutions. Of course, it's possible that criticism is more interesting and if so, I'm disappointed but I stand corrected. :)

Here is a report by the ACLU detailing their concerns about the implementation of body cameras worn by LE. Although they support their use, their analysis shows that body cameras are not a single or simple solution. As is so true of many "fixes" the potential problems associated with this solution are serious. It can be a case of "be careful what you wish for." Thoughts?

https://www.aclu.org/files/assets/police_body-mounted_cameras.pdf

These issues are being addressed as I posted in the MPR article above. There will be solutions.

Until the problem is outed, there will be no change. That means the attitudes.

As a middle class white family, we experienced some nasty things with LE. I wanted my husband to report it to the chief, but he said we would forever be on their list of people to harrass. So we just accepted their misconduct. This goes on and on and that is why they have the attitudes they do. They get away with it.

With the cam recordings, now the attitudes can be addressed. There is proof.

I imagine the good officers do not want their lives on the line because of the bad ones so they will demand changes. There is the brotherhood of the police, but I think when it comes down to their lives at stake, they will want facilitate the implementation of better education, training, policies, procedures, and identify red flags of people who should not be police officers.
 
  • #763
Mandatory learning about history racism and its effects. What happened to blacks who tried to buy homes after serving in WW2 , for instance,

I had to take civics in high school. I learned so much about laws and government, all stuff that hadn't been covered in history. I learned about dealing with cops in driver's ed, but it wasn't enough.

I agree civics should be required.

Wishful thinking that any topics like these will be taught in public high schools coast to coast. Private and charter schools-- yes, the curriculum is more flexible, and the boards of parents and school boards are more open minded at the high school level.

Increasingly, these types of topics, are being moved to colleges for discussion and study. They are simply too controversial to be taught at the high school level-- who writes a curriculum? Who approves the curriculum? What do you do when there are disagreements over what is taught? How do you monitor what the teacher is teaching? How do you measure the outcomes? How to make the curriculum not slanted toward one political or social ideology or another is challenging, if not impossible. So they have just systematically taken all of this kind of teaching out of "civics" classes, and substituted "history" and "social studies" content-- greatly watered down, with no opportunity for real discussions, and highly scripted curriculum that will more easily pass scrutiny without conflict.

This is why we have hoards of high school students graduating without having a basic understanding of things like how to vote in local, state, and national elections, or what the electoral college is, or how the primary system works in their state. (IMO, this is PART OF why young people gravitate toward the un-peaceful protest movements-- it's quicker and easier to protest something/ riot/ disrupt something, than to actually work for social justice within the law.)

Our oldest was not permitted to discuss the process of how the presidential election worked while in public high school the last presidential cycle. Our middle child is now in a specialty charter school, and I see an enormous difference in what can be taught and discussed at school, related to social topics, comparative religions, and "social justice" issues.

Public schools largely believe that these topics should be taught "at home", or at least outside of the school day. Teachers are given strategies to re-direct questions from students about topics that can't be discussed. At least that's true in my part of the country-- and we have a large number of K-12 teachers and university professors in our family and extended family.

So I think it's folly to think that in the current climate, that things like "how to properly, politely, and successfully interact with a policeman" will ever be taught in schools. Acting out is becoming the norm-- to behave in a socially appropriate way is "weak"-- kids see this on television and the internet everywhere. The ones who misbehave and break laws the worst get the most attention and coverage. Better yet, now they have "a cause" and are "oppressed". It's "cool" to physically attack and denigrate law enforcement, and go out of your way to be rude and disrespectful to them-- and then film it and post it on the web. That's how far we've come. No civics class can "fix" all that is wrong with that, IMO.
 
  • #764
The civics class was one suggestion on a long list. I can't speak for everyone here, obviously, but I never considered it would "fix all that is wrong." It could help, and maybe make a difference, especially if added to the other ideas we've discussed. Again I can't speak for everyone here but I'm in no position to approach the Dept. of Education and tell them what to do, nor can I insist taxpayers fork over more cash for public education.

What was the reasoning behind your oldest child being forbidden from discussing the process of the presidential election?
 
  • #765
I would like the racism classes for police as part of their training.

I have a meme someone made on my FB.

It says lawyers get six years of learning about the law and LE gets six months. I am sure there is truth to the length of time.
 
  • #766
I would like the racism classes for police as part of their training.

I have a meme someone made on my FB.

It says lawyers get six years of learning about the law and LE gets six months. I am sure there is truth to the length of time.

In LE it should be an ongoing process, classes every year or something.

I would like to see racism classes for police too. Not only would they be learning, it might weed out a few candidates who aren't quite fit for the job. Maybe.
 
  • #767
Idealistically, one would think that body cams would bring cops protection. And in critical moments like a shootout, then they would. But my LAPD friend has just worn one for 6 months in a trial basis and he hated it for a few reasons. Number one, not even one second of privacy, not even in the bathroom.


Respectfully snipped by me for focus.

No, threy are not filmed usin the toilet. They take off the cams. They just clip on the chest.

So are you talking about audio?
 
  • #768
While we're on the subject of cameras...an op-ed I came across. Texas lawmakers meet next month to discuss what steps to take to prevent further jail suicides.

Many jails are old-fashioned and configured in a way that's difficult for staffers to monitor all cells easily. Cameras solve that problem. Most jails already have cameras in booking areas, so this is hardly a new concept.

A county jail probably could be equipped with an array of cameras and monitoring screens for less than the salary and benefits of a new jailer. State officials or several counties could band together for group discounts. Whatever the cost, it would help save counties the considerable expense of lawsuits that usually follow suicides or injuries among inmates.
http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/o...Texas-jails-need-more-cameras-for-6458819.php
 
  • #769
  • #770
  • #771
This is likely relevant to a number of the topics discussed here:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/02/son-deceased

Really worth a read, if you haven't already (though I know a bunch here have already read it).

Chilling. To me this article illustrates once again how deeply entrenched these problems are and how complex the solutions. And ABQ is just one of many cities with LE issues. As my OT anecdote below illustrates, I'm sure there are good cops in ABQ, and I feel for them if they stay there.

OT--I'm a little embarrassed and amused to admit that after reading this article I immediately started sleuthing the newest officer hired by my small town police department in Oregon. He happens to be from ABQ! I think I might have been profiling him! :) I wanted to see if there is any evidence that he has brought the ABQ PD culture with him.

I had a good feeling about him when we met a couple of months ago in connection with an injured wild animal near my urban property. I found him to be a gentle and sensitive man. He told that he would not be able to put the animal down himself because of his personal feelings, but he called his sergeant to come assess the situation and do whatever was necessary. That's the kind of town I live in. I'm very fortunate.

While we waited for his sergeant, we had an opportunity to chat and he told me about the high crime rate in ABQ. He was obviously relieved to be able to work and raise his family in a relatively low crime area. After sleuthing him, he seems to be one of the good guys. I can't find anything negative about him on record. What he didn't tell me was that he himself had been shot in the line of duty a few years ago.

I'm glad he is here. ABQ's loss is our gain.
 
  • #772
  • #773
Nearly unanimous.

Road to Sandra Bland's alma mater named for her
Author: The Associated Press
http://www.click2houston.com/news/p...e-university-dr-sandra-bland-parkway/34914892

Video & more at link.

Simply astonishing. Very, very unwise, IMO. I thought it might be a rumor or an Onion article, until I read it. Sure makes me think a lot less of their BOD, that they would do something like this that, IMO, reflects poorly on the university-- and will, for years to come.

That just sends a very bad message on the part of the University, IMO.

SB's death is sad and unfortunate, and worthy of discussion. But I don't think anything about what happened should be memorialized THIS way-- and certainly not implying she was a martyr, or a hero. Maybe if they were memorializing her for a day, during an awareness campaign for mental health care, or suicide prevention or something I could see it. But naming the main road for her?? No. I strongly disagree wit that.

She argued and verbally assaulted a police officer with foul language, got herself arrested for physically assaulting the police officer, and committed suicide in jail, and was found to have a high concentration of illegal drugs in her system at autopsy. That is not behavior that should lead to having street named for her, IMO. It glorifies and validates criminal behavior toward LE, and promotes future similar behavior, IMO. A very disturbing trend in the U.S.

Very unfortunate decision, IMO.
 
  • #774
Simply astonishing. Very, very unwise, IMO. I thought it might be a rumor or an Onion article, until I read it. Sure makes me think a lot less of their BOD, that they would do something like this that, IMO, reflects poorly on the university-- and will, for years to come.

That just sends a very bad message on the part of the University, IMO.

SB's death is sad and unfortunate, and worthy of discussion. But I don't think anything about what happened should be memorialized THIS way-- and certainly not implying she was a martyr, or a hero. Maybe if they were memorializing her for a day, during an awareness campaign for mental health care, or suicide prevention or something I could see it. But naming the main road for her?? No. I strongly disagree wit that.

She argued and verbally assaulted a police officer with foul language, got herself arrested for physically assaulting the police officer, and committed suicide in jail, and was found to have a high concentration of illegal drugs in her system at autopsy. That is not behavior that should lead to having street named for her, IMO. It glorifies and validates criminal behavior toward LE, and promotes future similar behavior, IMO. A very disturbing trend in the U.S.

Very unfortunate decision, IMO.

BBM

I agree. Even if her behavior was in response to the officer being aggressive, as many apparently believe and I won't argue, it was not a response worthy of imitation or glorification. Even funding a scholarship in her name would be less objectionable. But naming a road after her sends a very bad message. JMO

As I keep pointing out on this thread, the LE problem is certainly real and widespread, but solving it is hugely complex, involving multiple layers. Naming a road after Sandra Bland does nothing to work toward a solution. If anything, it deepens the divide. Is that the goal? I hope not.
MOO
 
  • #775
I think it's great that a road was named after Sandra Bland. It's a gesture, albeit an empty gesture. IMO. If it makes anyone happy I don't see why anyone would feel threatened as we have plenty of roads to go around for all.
We have no proof that SB assaulted BE and some think it was BE that was abusive and escalated in his role as LE.
IMO
 
  • #776
I think it's great that a road was named after Sandra Bland. It's a gesture, albeit an empty gesture. IMO. If it makes anyone happy I don't see why anyone would feel threatened as we have plenty of roads to go around for all.
We have no proof that SB assaulted BE and some think it was BE that was abusive and escalated in his role as LE.
IMO

I have a problem with it. As a parent of mixed race kids, I feel that there are too many people trying to make heroes out of people like Mike Brown, VonDerrit, and Mansur BallBey. I feel there are more noble, honorable people that should be looked up to and made role models. Just because someone dies at the hands of LE it does not mean they are HEROIC. What did Sandra Bland do to deserve a road named after her?



Anthony Sadler---why not name a road after that hero on the train in France?
 
  • #777
I have a problem with it. As a parent of mixed race kids, I feel that there are too many people trying to make heroes out of people like Mike Brown, VonDerrit, and Mansur BallBey. I feel there are more noble, honorable people that should be looked up to and made role models. Just because someone dies at the hands of LE it does not mean they are HEROIC. What did Sandra Bland do to deserve a road named after her?

I don't think naming a road after a person means they are being made out to be a hero. It's more like a memorial. IMO
I don't have a problem with it at all. Many in our society do think SB deserves recognition and I am fine with their feelings in that regard. IMO

ETA ... to remove response to quoted post that was misread on my part
 
  • #778
You admit she died at the hands of LE. That's progress. I don't think naming a road after a person means they are being made out to be a hero. It's more like a memorial. IMO
I don't have a problem with it at all. Many in our society do think SB deserves recognition and I am fine with their feelings in that regard. IMO

Yes, many in our society do feel she deserves recognition. And that is what I have a problem with. There is a huge social movement to give honor and recognition to anyone that they deem to be a 'victim'of Law Enforcement. Even if they are dealing drugs, pointing stolen guns, running from a robbery or resisting a search warrant, they are suddenly a hero. And that bothers me a lot.
Kids growing up in low income neighborhoods need heroes that should be emulated. Why not name a road after Anthony Sadler instead of Sandra Bland?

And I do not 'admit' she died at the hands of LE. She killed herself. But she is lumped into the long list of victims by BLM.

They honor and publicize those that fight with LE. But they sweep the innocent victims of inner city violence under the rug. Why not name a road for Jamyla?
 
  • #779
No one has said or implied that they "feel threatened" by a road being named after Bland. Having serious concerns about the long and short term ramifications is not the same as "feeling threatened." Using those words is historically a subtle implication that people are racist in my experience. JMO

Katydid did not say that Bland died at the hands of LE. She named three people who did and referenced them, not Bland. She asked what Bland did to have a road named after her.

This is a complex subject worthy of discussion. But people are entitled to their opinions and concerns. JMO

I think it's great that a road was named after Sandra Bland. It's a gesture, albeit an empty gesture. IMO. If it makes anyone happy I don't see why anyone would feel threatened as we have plenty of roads to go around for all.
We have no proof that SB assaulted BE and some think it was BE that was abusive and escalated in his role as LE.
IMO

You admit she died at the hands of LE. That's progress. I don't think naming a road after a person means they are being made out to be a hero. It's more like a memorial. IMO
I don't have a problem with it at all. Many in our society do think SB deserves recognition and I am fine with their feelings in that regard. IMO
 
  • #780
Yes, many in our society do feel she deserves recognition. And that is what I have a problem with. There is a huge social movement to give honor and recognition to anyone that they deem to be a 'victim'of Law Enforcement. Even if they are dealing drugs, pointing stolen guns, running from a robbery or resisting a search warrant, they are suddenly a hero. And that bothers me a lot.
Kids growing up in low income neighborhoods need heroes that should be emulated. Why not name a road after Anthony Sadler instead of Sandra Bland?

And I do not 'admit' she died at the hands of LE. She killed herself. But she is lumped into the long list of victims by BLM.

They honor and publicize those that fight with LE. But they sweep the innocent victims of inner city violence under the rug. Why not name a road for Jamyla?

As I posted there are plenty of roads to go around for the deserving. If it makes some happy to have a road that is named Sandra Bland...I'm fine with it.
Some think she was fighting for justice and if it has meaning for them it doesn't matter to me. It's just a road after all.
 

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