GUILTY TX - Scott Hartman for child sexual abuse, Bexar County, 2009

[CHICANA]

Here's the story on her slapping him.
http://www.woai.com/content/trouble...oes-Texas-law-say/04q17j51tUi4NURs5oHuqw.cspx

 

[Missizzy]

I want to give credit where credit is due. Foster parents often get such a bad rap. These foster parents gave these children a level of comfort and sense of safety which allowed them to disclose. The foster parents will then serve as witnesses in the case. Kudos to them. This is why we need more professional foster parents. They are often a stepping stone to healing.

There's an outside possibility that the children could stay in this home or that this family will assist them in forming new bonds with an appropriate family.

Being that there are criminal charges against both parents (not sure where bio-dad fits in), I would think that these kids will be fast-tracked to a plan of adoption. Good!!

 

[kbl8201]

I want to give credit where credit is due. Foster parents often get such a bad rap. These foster parents gave these children a level of comfort and sense of safety which allowed them to disclose. The foster parents will then serve as witnesses in the case. Kudos to them. This is why we need more professional foster parents. They are often a stepping stone to healing.

There's an outside possibility that the children could stay in this home or that this family will assist them in forming new bonds with an appropriate family.

Being that there are criminal charges against both parents (not sure where bio-dad fits in), I would think that these kids will be fast-tracked to a plan of adoption. Good!!

sounds like they may already be in the right home.

what i fear is, bio mom wont be in jail or prison long. then she'll come back screaming she wants her kids back......

 

[Filly]

and people wonder why abuse victims wont come foward.

How weird. I must be psychic. I just posted to you about this over on the Pervo Pedo Pediatrician's thread. About how a parent can go about asking and such.

See! Ya get slapped. Back in our day if you dared say it about a Priest your father would kick your azz. Your mom would cry and figure you were a delinquent.

In the case of this mom and I am so not watching the video so I'm only guessing I think perhaps that immediately puts the blame on her for not parenting correctly. Also, it would shock you that your own underage child was part of that.

People react differently to different things. I'd smack her back. Alas, this is just a little kid though. Poor thing. Talk about a lifetime of therapy.

kbl>>>>>If you read what I posted to you over on Pervert Pediatrician's thread? The guy I told ya became a male hustler? Sexually assaulted as a kid many, many times by who else? Boy Scout Leader. His brother did as well, but never turned to drugs.

 

[DairyGirl]

Here's the story on her slapping him.
http://www.woai.com/content/trouble...oes-Texas-law-say/04q17j51tUi4NURs5oHuqw.cspx

"I slapped him right-handed, like that, it wasn't even all that hard." The young Elmendorf mom was arrested and charged with felony injury to a child a few weeks ago after slapping her 10-year-old son, Christopher, when he refused to clean up his room.

http://www.woai.com/content/trouble...oes-Texas-law-say/04q17j51tUi4NURs5oHuqw.cspx

This article says she slapped him for not cleaning his room. Oh that, and saying that step daddy was a child molester. I can't stand women who place men above their child. She lost her mother card to me.

 

[CHICANA]

If the molestation was reported in November, why weren't the kids removed then ?
This sounds strange. He's left in the home after saying he was sexually assaulted but removed because he was slapped ?
Do they consider slapping a worse offense ??

 

[Texas Mist]

so is the little girl lying too?

that a second child alleged Hartman sexually assaulted her, too, according to authorities.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/85036982.html

 

[Salem]

If a post is offensive - please hit the little red triangle and report it! Do NOT quote it and carry it forward.

Thanks guys,

Salem

 

[VespaElf]

Since when are "lying" and "vindictiveness" mental illnesses?

 

[CHICANA]

so is the little girl lying too?

that a second child alleged Hartman sexually assaulted her, too, according to authorities.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/85036982.html

I'm having issues with the time line. If he reported the molestation back in November as indicated in the media reports, it'll clear it up for me.
I don't think 10 year old boys lie about these things, so hear me out.
If he said his stepdad did this in November, why wasn't he taken then and why wasn't the stepdad arrested ? We know at that time the mom was accused of slapping him AND that she went public with it. IMO, it would be pretty dumb to criticize the state/system and admitting to slapping your kid if you had something even bigger to hide.
It seems like the CPS investigation began because of the slap, if he disclosed this information after being taken into custody and questioned, it's possible there could have been some coercion. I only started being a little suspicious after learning the little girl disclosed while in the care of foster parents who are also counselors (or something like that).
I could be wrong, but he wasn't arrested until the little girl disclosed, was he ?
Even if miraculously, the stepdad turns out to be innocent, it was/is SOOO wrong for the mom or anybody else to blame this little boy for anything. The grown ups in his world are calling all the shots. This child has some reason for being so angry and mom needs to pay attention.

 

[CHICANA]

Texas Mist - you know I would never defend a child molestor and if he's guilty I want him to pay dearly.
It seemed as if the mom was getting some support from other parents who thought the state might have been overstepping their bounds after the slapping incident and in my mind making the government mad at you is dangerous.
I want to understand the timeline better and I want to know who the media sources are.
I know one article said LE was notified in November, but I don't know if it was an outside source that stated it or if it came from LE directly.

 

[Texas Mist]

I'm having issues with the time line. If he reported the molestation back in November as indicated in the media reports, it'll clear it up for me.
I don't think 10 year old boys lie about these things, so hear me out.
If he said his stepdad did this in November, why wasn't he taken then and why wasn't the stepdad arrested ? We know at that time the mom was accused of slapping him AND that she went public with it. IMO, it would be pretty dumb to criticize the state/system and admitting to slapping your kid if you had something even bigger to hide.
It seems like the CPS investigation began because of the slap, if he disclosed this information after being taken into custody and questioned, it's possible there could have been some coercion. I only started being a little suspicious after learning the little girl disclosed while in the care of foster parents who are also counselors (or something like that).
I could be wrong, but he wasn't arrested until the little girl disclosed, was he ?
Even if miraculously, the stepdad turns out to be innocent, it was/is SOOO wrong for the mom or anybody else to blame this little boy for anything. The grown ups in his world are calling all the shots. This child has some reason for being so angry and mom needs to pay attention.

the article here -- http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/85036982.html -- says

Bexar County deputies began investigating Hartman on Nov. 17, when one of the victims told a counselor at his elementary school of the assaults.

The child told Bexar County investigators his mother didn't believe him, and when questioned, the boy's mother said that his “lies were ruining her life,” the affidavit states.

Less than a month later, a nurse at the boy's school noticed red markings on the side of his neck. The child told officials his 29-year-old mother hit him “because I didn't clean up my room,” the affidavit states.

The mother, who the Express-News is not identifying because doing so could identify her children, was arrested Dec. 11


So yeah, the kids weren't removed & placed into foster care until then...Do we know if Bexar County investigators had contacted CPS in November? Maybe that's why the children weren't removed until some other 'incident' occurred.

I don't know how it works w/ TX CPS -- if they immediately remove the kid(s) from a home after CSA allegations, or if they investigate.

 

[Snick1946]

This brings back some bad memories. I told my dad once about someone touching me inappropriately- he threatened me with physical punishment if I ever said anything like that again.
That was in the 50's. Some things never change.

 

[Texas Mist]

Texas Mist - you know I would never defend a child molestor and if he's guilty I want him to pay dearly.
It seemed as if the mom was getting some support from other parents who thought the state might have been overstepping their bounds after the slapping incident and in my mind making the government mad at you is dangerous.
I want to understand the timeline better and I want to know who the media sources are.
I know one article said LE was notified in November, but I don't know if it was an outside source that stated it or if it came from LE directly.

I totally understand....it just hits me to the core when kids disclose and then parents and/or other family members start calling them liars.

Too often CPS doesn't remove the kids after reports of 'red marks' & 'slapping'....it appears the little boy disclosed before mom was arrested - then he has 'red marks', then the kids are taken away....that's CPS doing their job, right?

ITA it's a mess - hopefully we'll hear more that will uncloud the issue....IMO, there's some kind of dysfunction in the family for all this to be going on.

 

[TXN4LIFE]

I dont think this kid was lying, but please dont say they dont lie about things like this at 10 years old. My step-daughter was a compulsive and habitutial liar growing up. She is in her late 20's now, but when she was in elemenatry, she told some whoppers. Said she had an uncle die in the OKC bombing ( didnt have a family member that even lived in OKC) and when she was in High School, told a teacher that she was raped and that her dad and I were raising her son ( which is MY son). These are just two of them. Made up things about her and her boyfriend that caused him to break up with her. I'm sure it was for attention, cause she didnt get it from her mother. To this day I cant believe but 20% of what comes out of her mouth. She has lied about her kids too. I DO believe compulsive lying is a disorder like OCD.

Again, I believe this kid, especially with others saying it happened to them. But when I hear these stories, because of what I went through (thank GOD she never said that WE did anything to her) I always wonder if there is a chance that the kid is making it up.

 

[Missizzy]

Welcome TXN4LIFE Yes, children can have a severe behavioral disability with lying. There's no doubt about that. However, having raised 14, and being involved with children's advocacy for 25-30 years, I've rarely heard documented proof that a child, especially a male child, made a formal report of a sexual abuse which did not happen.

I do recognize that some children can tell whoppers for the shock value and the attention the lies garner. However, I think we're dealing with a very different set of circumstances in this case. There's also the issue of the other child's disclosure. I have faith in the Children's Advocacy Center in being able to determine what is a fact and what is a whopper.

Again, welcome.

 

[Missizzy]

VespaElf--I'm appalled by the rudeness of the new but now vanished poster, but I did want to answer your very important question. Lying and vindictiveness are very real disorders of childhood. They fall under Conduct Disorder in the DSM-IV for children. After the age of 18, they morph into Anti-social Personality Disorder. They are typically under the umbrella of Severe Emotional Disturbance in the educational arena.

To play devil's advocate for a moment, it is not unheard of for children to engage in "crazy" lying nor to be vindictive (also a component of Oppositional Defiant Disorder). If this little boy is diagnosed with either of these disorders, it is highly possible that he has a history of lying. This type of lying is easily sorted out, though, by professionals who work with these kids.

We need to remember, though, that just because a child lies frequently does NOT mean that he could very well be telling the truth in this case. I doubt there would be an arrest nor a removal by DHS is there wasn't quite a bit more to the story--as well as the collaborating story of the sibling.

FWIW, there's a huge difference between the "tone" of a lie about a Dad having a big airplane which flew a child to Disneyland last year and a disclosure that "Dad touched me".

Remember, a person can make the poor choice of selling his/her body and still be the victim of a rape. Each disclosure/crime must be examined individually. I have faith this will be done thoroughly.

 

[VespaElf]

VespaElf--I'm appalled by the rudeness of the new but now vanished poster, but I did want to answer your very important question. Lying and vindictiveness are very real disorders of childhood. They fall under Conduct Disorder in the DSM-IV for children. After the age of 18, they morph into Anti-social Personality Disorder. They are typically under the umbrella of Severe Emotional Disturbance in the educational arena.

To play devil's advocate for a moment, it is not unheard of for children to engage in "crazy" lying nor to be vindictive (also a component of Oppositional Defiant Disorder). If this little boy is diagnosed with either of these disorders, it is highly possible that he has a history of lying. This type of lying is easily sorted out, though, by professionals who work with these kids.

We need to remember, though, that just because a child lies frequently does NOT mean that he could very well be telling the truth in this case. I doubt there would be an arrest nor a removal by DHS is there wasn't quite a bit more to the story--as well as the collaborating story of the sibling.

FWIW, there's a huge difference between the "tone" of a lie about a Dad having a big airplane which flew a child to Disneyland last year and a disclosure that "Dad touched me".

Remember, a person can make the poor choice of selling his/her body and still be the victim of a rape. Each disclosure/crime must be examined individually. I have faith this will be done thoroughly.

Thanks Izz but I was being factious !:angel:
I know all too well about mental illness,lying & vindictiveness! I was just amused by the Troll's 'diagnosis'!:crazy:

 

[TXN4LIFE]

Thanks for the welcome, Missizzy! I did say that I dont believe the boy is lying in this case. I do believe he is telling the truth. I'm just speaking from experience from what I had to deal with. Of course, we heard all kinds of things about what her mom did or said, and I'm sure that her mom heard things about us. I learned early with her how to tell she was lying, but she was sooo convincing to others. We are lucky she didnt lie about something that would have gotten us in trouble.

I really feel for this boy. Its so disheartening to read most of these post on this site, because the mom normally sides with the boyfriend/step-dad. How can these people do the things to their kids that they do? I mean to give birth to a beautiful child, and to put them out for someone they have know for sometimes just days??? My husband and I have been married for 18 years and God forbid if something ever happened between us there is NO MAN more important than my child besides God Himself! I would have to date someone for a long time before I even introduced my son to him and these people are moving in with them within DAYS!

I pray for all these children!

 

[Filly]

This brings back some bad memories. I told my dad once about someone touching me inappropriately- he threatened me with physical punishment if I ever said anything like that again.
That was in the 50's. Some things never change.

Snick, I'm so sorry for your pain.

Yep, different times. Especially in the 50's. Thank goodness we have more awareness about these issues now. Again, I'm sorry.