TX Shots fired at a free-speech "draw Muhammad " event in Garland TX

[Sonya610]

No. Hate is hate. if you dont like people just because they are different than you. That is hate.
If you think that certain populations of people are inherently inferior. That is hate. And ignorance.

Sorry. but you don't get to define hate. In times of war it is about "love", love for one's own, love for one's traditions, love for one's country, and the enemy is perceived to act out of "hate".

It depends on which side you are on; you can be sure your side is always about "love" and the other side is always about hate. While it may be popular to simply call others "haters" as a way of dismissing their thoughts/opinions/concerns that doesn't make your belief a universal truth.

It merely reflects YOUR OPINION.

 

[effervescent]

That is their job. To protect and serve us, they know the dangers when they sign up, and bless their hearts for their sacrifices to keep America free and orderly!

Of course that is their job. Don't think I am not aware of that - my mom is a retired police officer. I worried about what she signed up to do every day from the time I was six until she retired.

But at the same time, we can be outraged that they have to face things like this, and I think we can be conscientious enough to not increase the odds against them. The police in all the Baltimore riots, if they get hurt, is that OK - they signed up for it and many of those people are citing the rights to assembly and free speech? Sorry, it's just not OK with me, to consciously put people in potential danger. But I do have admitted bias in favor of law enforcement. I am well aware of what their jobs entail and it bothers me greatly that people say "Oh well, that's their job" instead of maybe having some forethought of the potential consequences of their actions and who it could affect. We ALL have a right to safety.

 

[Curious Guy]

Sorry. but you don't get to define hate. In times of war it is about "love", love for one's own, love for one's traditions, love for one's country, and the enemy is perceived to act out of "hate".

It depends on which side you take, and while it may be popular to simply call others "haters" as a way of dismissing their thoughts/opinions/concerns that doesn't make a universal truth.

It merely reflects YOUR OPINION.

Your final paragraph nailed it. Label opinions you don't like as hateful or bigoted to delegimitize it.

 

[EllieBee]

Reading through this thread reminds me of a phrase -

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"-- Evelyn Beatrice Hall - The Friends of Voltaire (1906)

One of my my favorite quotes.

I also think that along with one's right to speak freely, the awareness that inciting unstable peoples to violence is something that ought to be addressed.

That does not mean "step down and shut up". I mean that before you decide to upset the hornet's nest, make sure you are prepared for the consequences.

In other words, don't pick a fight with someone crazier than you. <modsnip>

 

[Dogface]

Of course that is their job. Don't think I am not aware of that - my mom is a retired police officer. I worried about what she signed up to do every day from the time I was six until she retired.

But at the same time, we can be outraged that they have to face things like this, and I think we can be conscientious enough to not increase the odds against them. The police in all the Baltimore riots, if they get hurt, is that OK - they signed up for it and many of those people are citing the rights to assembly and free speech? Sorry, it's just not OK with me, to consciously put people in potential danger. But I do have admitted bias in favor of law enforcement. I am well aware of what their jobs entail and it bothers me greatly that people say "Oh well, that's their job" instead of maybe having some forethought of the potential consequences of their actions and who it could affect. We ALL have a right to safety.

The protestors in Baltimore who act violently are clearly in the wrong. And they are not exercising their rights, they are abusing them. However, I think asking citizens to limit their rights for fear of danger is cowardly. My brother is LE(former army) outside of Atlanta and I strongly support LE. However, I would rather him be at risk protecting fundamental rights of America verses getting shot for pulling someone over with a warrant.

 

[Sulamith]

Sharia has been mentioned several times in these threads. I was asking a question of those who subscribe to Pamela Geller's beliefs. I perhaps mistakenly assumed that many here would be familiar with her and her blog. She is adamantly worried about Islamic forces taking over our country, and rants about Islamic culture. ad nauseum. She arranged the event in Texas and announced that holy war has arrived. She was probably a bit disappointed that the jihadis were a couple of wannabees. I'm just glad that none of the "art" patrons were injured in her holy war. JMO

I have known about Geller for a few years now. Nasty woman IMO. She and Geert Wilders were fortunate to have left the venue before the shooters arrived.

 

[Sonya610]

But at the same time, we can be outraged that they have to face things like this, and I think we can be conscientious enough to not increase the odds against them.

Seriously, when it comes to the things police "have to face" this has to be way way down on their list of concerns.

I would also suspect that when the on duty police officers heard there was possibly a terrorist attack IN THEIR TOWN and there could even be a bomb they were EAGER TO DO THEIR JOB and GLAD they were in a position to protect their community.

They likely ended their work day feeling really good because they did a great job and were appreciated! Unlike the officers that have to stand for hours during protests and be cussed out and degraded.

 

[EllieBee]

The protestors in Baltimore who act violently are clearly in the wrong. And they are not exercising their rights, they are abusing them. However, I think asking citizens to limit their rights for fear of danger is cowardly. My brother is LE(former army) outside of Atlanta and I strongly support LE. However, I would rather him be at risk protecting fundamental rights of America verses getting shot for pulling someone over with a warrant.

And yet many were calling for the cessation of peaceful marches and protests in Baltimore and Charleston. Those same posters are now advocating the First Amendment rights for Geller's gang.

First Amendment applies to ALL people. Not just the ones you (generally) think deserve the right.

 

[Dogface]

And yet many were calling for the cessation of peaceful marches and protests in Baltimore and Charleston. Those same posters are now advocating the First Amendment rights for Geller's gang.

First Amendment applies to ALL people. Not just the ones you (generally) think deserve the right.

I totally agree with your last sentence. And peaceful protestors should be allowed to do that whenever, wherever for whatever.

 

[EllieBee]

I have known about Geller for a few years now. Nasty woman IMO. She and Geert Wilders were fortunate to have left the venue before the shooters arrived.

She makes Ann Coulter look thoughtful and reasonable.

 

[effervescent]

Seriously, when it comes to the things police "have to face" this has to be way way down on their list of concerns.

I would also suspect that when the on duty police officers heard there was possibly a terrorist attack IN THEIR TOWN and there could even be a bomb they were EAGER TO DO THEIR JOB and GLAD they were in a position to protect their community.

I doubt they are ever eager or glad to go into a shooting situation and/or potential mass terrorism event that may have been avoided or handled more "tactfully" (for lack of a better word) by the organizers. The police officers I know and grew up around never seemed to see themselves as soldiers, but as peacekeepers first and foremost. I wouldn't presume to know what level of violence or which perpetrator(s) of it is highest on their list.
All I know is they like to go home at the end of their day.

 

[i.b.nora]

I went looking for information on the "Stand With the Prophet" conference held earlier this year at the same conference center in Garland.

Most of what I found was associated with non mainstream websites and blogs and 'fringy' conspiracy type websites. However, I did find a couple of MSM reports.

Here is an NBC Fort Worth report with a couple of short interesting videos. The video at the bottom is earlier in the day, and the video at the top is later in the day.

Thousands Protest Muslim Conference in Garland
53 AM CDT on Monday, Jan 19, 2015

"Thousands of protesters and counter-protesters held American flags and signs outside of a Muslim conference in Garland, Texas, on Saturday night.
"We're here to stand up for the American way of life from a faction of people who are trying to destroy us," a man protesting the conference said."

*

"The conference is titled, “Stand With the Prophet Against Terror and Hate” and bills itself as a fundraiser to build a center dedicated to teaching Muslims how to combat negative depictions of their faith."​

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Thousands-Protest-Muslim-Conference-in-Garland-288936351.html#

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I went looking for information on the "Stand With the Prophet" conference held earlier this year at the same conference center in Garland.

Most of what I found was associated with non mainstream websites and blogs and 'fringy' conspiracy type websites. However, I did find a couple of MSM reports.

Here is an NBC Fort Worth report with a couple of short interesting videos. The video at the bottom is earlier in the day, and the video at the top is later in the day.

Thousands Protest Muslim Conference in Garland
53 AM CDT on Monday, Jan 19, 2015

"Thousands of protesters and counter-protesters held American flags and signs outside of a Muslim conference in Garland, Texas, on Saturday night.
"We're here to stand up for the American way of life from a faction of people who are trying to destroy us," a man protesting the conference said."

*

"The conference is titled, “Stand With the Prophet Against Terror and Hate” and bills itself as a fundraiser to build a center dedicated to teaching Muslims how to combat negative depictions of their faith."​

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Thousands-Protest-Muslim-Conference-in-Garland-288936351.html#

I wonder if police provided security for this event?

 

[CoolJ]

Sorry. but you don't get to define hate. In times of war it is about "love", love for one's own, love for one's traditions, love for one's country, and the enemy is perceived to act out of "hate".

It depends on which side you are on; you can be sure your side is always about "love" and the other side is always about hate. While it may be popular to simply call others "haters" as a way of dismissing their thoughts/opinions/concerns that doesn't make your belief a universal truth.

It merely reflects YOUR OPINION.

So i cant define hate but you can?
How about you dont pick a side? That, my dear, is Love.

 

[i.b.nora]

I wonder if police provided security for this event?

Did you watch the videos?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Did you watch the videos?

You mean the video in the link you provided? No I haven't. I'll check it now.

 

[sonjay]

Did you watch the videos?

I did. I made some notes:

"Their passion as mostly confined just to words"

"Protest and counter protest"

"A few clashes, but it never turned physical"

"No major incidents, no arrests"

I saw protesters holding signs that read:
Stand for Jesus
God bless America

That's how to protest. NOT with guns and grenades. NOT by shooting innocent people

Again, I'll ask: who are the haters?

And I'll answer myself: Those who attempt to harm and kill others for their beliefs and speech are the haters. NOT those who use words to disagree with others.

 

[Sonya610]

So i cant define hate but you can?
How about you dont pick a side? That, my dear, is Love.

I have already picked a side, and you appear to have done the same.

And for the record I have no problem with Islam, I even thought about reverting briefly. But when those beliefs start trampling on the culture I live in then I have a problem with it.

Might is right.

 

[time]

So i cant define hate but you can?
How about you dont pick a side? That, my dear, is Love.

Dutch far-right politician Geert Wilders is due to be prosecuted over allegations he incited racial hatred against Moroccans, the authorities say.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I watched the video and the reporter said that there was a "heavy police presence" at the Muslim conference.

Does that mean the organizers of this event put LE at an unnecessary risk because there were people who disliked the event?