TX - Unidentified victims of Dean Corll, Houston Serial Killer, 1970-1973

Henley and Rhonda never had sex. Henley actually did say she was part of what helped him get the courage to kill Corll. In their initial statements Rhonda didn't giggle she just yelled at Henley for help after he killed Corll.
Thanks for clarifying the sex part i was just going off what the other person claimed, i hadn't heard it. I didn't say Rhonda giggled i said she misinterpreted the situation until Wayne fired the gun because she was so drugged up.
 
Brooks was the one always attacking Henley, who actually significantly covered for Brooks. When talking abt the crimes Henley mostly talks about his own role and Corll's, Brooks is like a footnote. I had a friend who talked to Henley and he was very secretive abt Brooks but answered other questions. The only really horrible 🤬🤬🤬🤬 he said abt brooks was that he wanted to rape girls, which can't be proved which is why I'm guessing he said that.

Brooks and Henley were told by Corll to pick kids who wouldn't be missed. Sometimes they took kids they disliked, like Marty Jones in Henley's case and Randy Harvey in Brooks. But with Jones, he did not beat Henley up or embarass him lol, they just had an argument about something that was very loud.
He threatened to beat Henley up, and we actually have accounts of Henley being the last saw with both of them. That's including Charles who did not do that to Henley not that it would be justification for murder.

Either way i'm not defending Brooks you may have misinterpreted me because i was arguing with someone who was defending Henley. Read my first posts in this thread i think both told the truth and lied plenty and i think both should have died in prison.
 
Henley was not having sex with Rhonda, it's in the Vargas letters. Both Henley and Rhonda stated they were just friends and had a sibling type relationship. I think people just started assuming they were dating through the unsubstantiated grapevine, because after Frank Aguirre died, Henley tried to look out for Rhonda as he got her boyfriend killed. Henley was dating Lisa Reid and was even engaged to her. Apparently, both Henley and Brooks were faithful to their girlfriend and Henley was dating Lisa way before he got involved in the murders. They had an on and off relationship for years.

I think Rhonda is at her core a good person, she became a social worker to help kids like herself but

This is all stuff Rhonda claimed decades later. Henley having sex with Rhonda does not have anything to do with him wanting to rape/torture/kill her after his experience with Dean, they aren't the same thing. Ted Bundy getting consensual sex from a victim would not have erased the desire for him to harm her.

According to Henley's initial account Rhonda didn't convince him of anything, he saw the gun that Dean carelessly left lying and grabbed it then shot Dean when he lunged at him. According to Rhonda's initial account she was so drugged out of her mind that she didn't realize what was happening, when she realized she was tied up she said "stop playing Wayne!" and only realized the gravity of the situation when she heard gunfire. Neither situation works with the version they told decades later after numerous meetings.

Kerley and Rhonda's account only backs Henley's up as much as they could give relevant accounts. They couldn't tell us anything about what Henley and Dean said to each other before they came there that night or what they said to each other before they all ended up tied up. What we know is he was asked to bring a male victim and he did alonside a female.
All the sources contradict. Many of them rehashed and sourcing from journalists' fertile imaginations.

What I will say is you can read much of Rhonda's initial account/statement in Ramsland's book, and the "quit playing Wayne" account is the one where she apparently believed blood on her hands was "catsup" before seeing Corll's face and screaming. Think most of us know Corll's face was against the base of his hallway wall. That was a fabricated account.
 
Half of Houston said the kids deserved it, it was all over newspaper accounts. It was clearly the prevailing narrative in the immediate aftermath and you could argue Brooks was trying to court public opinion and especially court favour with his father considering the circumstances.

When was Henley raped by Corll unless you mean statutorily? Henley said Corll paid him to give him oral sex, as in Dean gave Henley oral sex and it happened once. That's not dismissing that, it's horrific and Dean was a monster needless to say. But that's a far cry from Dean grooming and abusing Brooks since he was 12 years old and Henley himself participating in a torture session of him. I really don't care what you believe i'm going by the evidence.

Except, Rhonda's initial narrative was she fell and hurt her foot and none of her friends came and visited her so she was hiding out in her home in a bad mood. Then Henley came and saw her and offered to take her to Dean's to cheer her up. That's very different and removes the sense of urgency that the "protecting from abusive dad" narrative that was cooked up later suggests. Why would he bring Kerley or Rhonda there in the first place LMAO? This is getting so ludicrous. I'm going to bring this person to Dean's as a victim for no reason and also bring a girl to protect him.
You seem to have half read all the reports on Henley and Brooks and that final night. You can read about what actually happened from all the statements, Jack Olsen's book and Ramsland's. Rhonda hurt her foot but that was a few days or weeks before that final night. She actually had a fight with her abusive father and Henley showed up to cheer her up as did another friend. She decided she wanted to run away. In Ramsland's book and the Vargas letters Henley talk about how he and Brooks would bring girls over a lot or group of boys, because Corll would not try to capture a boy if they were outnumbered and he felt uncomfortable around women. Corll specifically asked Henley to bring Kerley that night, it's in his statement. Henley said he didn't want to and by then he was close to breaking down, so he brought Rhonda there as a spontaneous move to keep Corll from hurting Kerley and also so that he could help Rhonda. To him, it was a win win situation. In Ramsland's book, it was stated by Henley and his mom that Corll was planning to take Henley to Dallas but he was killed b4 he could.

It wasn't just statutory rape. I'll just give u a few quotes. In Henley's 1976 interview he states: Sex didn’t become a factor until later. There were rumors going around school about Dean, but he was never overt. Besides, I liked him personally. By the time he finally made an advance, I was an accomplice.

Then in Ramsland's book when Henley talks about Brooks being put on the torture board or Billy Lawrence being held hostage for rape, he uses the word "tied up." This quote makes me think the same happened to him: “We were scared of Dean,” Henley said. “And we were scared of each other, to be honest. I mean [Dean] had tied David up once. He tied me up. So, we had both been tied up and knowing his proclivities.… So, there was always that threat. The problem was that if you tied one of us up, the other was conflicted. On one hand, here’s my friend you’ve got tied up and on the other hand, here’s you, who I don’t know how to say ‘no’ to."

Henley also admitted to being handcuffed and burned with a cigarette by Corll. His statement about not being raped is also eerily similar to that of Billy Ridinger, who at first said the same thing in the same tone, and we all know what happened there. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what Henley was hiding. He also didn't participate in Brooks torture he just knocked him down for Corll to put on the death rack and went to sleep. Henley didn't even have his own room, Corll treated him like a dog and he mostly slept on the floor in Brooks room, sometimes sleeping on a couch or on Brooks bed.
 
He threatened to beat Henley up, and we actually have accounts of Henley being the last saw with both of them. That's including Charles who did not do that to Henley not that it would be justification for murder.

Either way i'm not defending Brooks you may have misinterpreted me because i was arguing with someone who was defending Henley. Read my first posts in this thread i think both told the truth and lied plenty and i think both should have died in prison.
I was agreeing with you mostly, but we don't know what Henley and Jones were arguing about, just that they had an argument. It is in Olsen's book. Jack Olsen's to be specific. It's obviously not a justification for murder, it just made it easier for Henley to choose Jones and Cobble. I'm sure in his mind he thought it was better than picking random kids.
 
You seem to have half read all the reports on Henley and Brooks and that final night. You can read about what actually happened from all the statements, Jack Olsen's book and Ramsland's. Rhonda hurt her foot but that was a few days or weeks before that final night. She actually had a fight with her abusive father and Henley showed up to cheer her up as did another friend. She decided she wanted to run away. In Ramsland's book and the Vargas letters Henley talk about how he and Brooks would bring girls over a lot or group of boys, because Corll would not try to capture a boy if they were outnumbered and he felt uncomfortable around women. Corll specifically asked Henley to bring Kerley that night, it's in his statement. Henley said he didn't want to and by then he was close to breaking down, so he brought Rhonda there as a spontaneous move to keep Corll from hurting Kerley and also so that he could help Rhonda. To him, it was a win win situation. In Ramsland's book, it was stated by Henley and his mom that Corll was planning to take Henley to Dallas but he was killed b4 he could.

It wasn't just statutory rape. I'll just give u a few quotes. In Henley's 1976 interview he states: Sex didn’t become a factor until later. There were rumors going around school about Dean, but he was never overt. Besides, I liked him personally. By the time he finally made an advance, I was an accomplice.

Then in Ramsland's book when Henley talks about Brooks being put on the torture board or Billy Lawrence being held hostage for rape, he uses the word "tied up." This quote makes me think the same happened to him: “We were scared of Dean,” Henley said. “And we were scared of each other, to be honest. I mean [Dean] had tied David up once. He tied me up. So, we had both been tied up and knowing his proclivities.… So, there was always that threat. The problem was that if you tied one of us up, the other was conflicted. On one hand, here’s my friend you’ve got tied up and on the other hand, here’s you, who I don’t know how to say ‘no’ to."

Henley also admitted to being handcuffed and burned with a cigarette by Corll. His statement about not being raped is also eerily similar to that of Billy Ridinger, who at first said the same thing in the same tone, and we all know what happened there. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what Henley was hiding. He also didn't participate in Brooks torture he just knocked him down for Corll to put on the death rack and went to sleep. Henley didn't even have his own room, Corll treated him like a dog and he mostly slept on the floor in Brooks room, sometimes sleeping on a couch or on Brooks bed.
Henley mentions Dean tricking him handcuffing him in a similar way that Gacy did to his victims. That's almost certainly what he's referring to. Henley also becomes far less reliable the further we get from his initial statements for obvious reasons.

Brooks never mentioned Henley being abused in any way, it's weird that one thing were their account actually matches we're supposed to just assume what's beneficial to Henley.

Brooks doesn't back that account of the attack why do you accept everything Henley said (often far after the events) and dismiss what Brooks had to say especially in events where he was the victim and Henley was the perpetrator?
 
I was agreeing with you mostly, but we don't know what Henley and Jones were arguing about, just that they had an argument. It is in Olsen's book. Jack Olsen's to be specific. It's obviously not a justification for murder, it just made it easier for Henley to choose Jones and Cobble. I'm sure in his mind he thought it was better than picking random kids.
That's an incredibly generous reading, it sounds a lot more like he used Dean as a personal hitman.
 
That's an incredibly generous reading, it sounds a lot more like he used Dean as a personal hitman.
Jones was the only kid Henley lured who he had a grudge with lol, many of the kids were random strangers or already affiliated with Corll. For example, Corll handpicked Mark Scott to die.
 
Jones was the only kid Henley lured who he had a grudge with lol, many of the kids were random strangers or already affiliated with Corll. For example, Corll handpicked Mark Scott to die.
And? Why would you need more than one example? Henley is picked on by kid known as local bully (which is all over newspaper accounts, Marty's death was by far the most justified by the public), said kid and his friend is last seen with Henley,, Corll brutally rapes and murders both. It's incredibly generous to read that any way but revenge on Henley's part. It's very clear you take Henley in incredibly good faith and give him a lot of benefit of the doubt and i don't understand why.
 
Henley mentions Dean tricking him handcuffing him in a similar way that Gacy did to his victims. That's almost certainly what he's referring to. Henley also becomes far less reliable the further we get from his initial statements for obvious reasons.

Brooks never mentioned Henley being abused in any way, it's weird that one thing were their account actually matches we're supposed to just assume what's beneficial to Henley.

Brooks doesn't back that account of the attack why do you accept everything Henley said (often far after the events) and dismiss what Brooks had to say especially in events where he was the victim and Henley was the perpetrator?
Brooks didn't ever refute Henley's claims in fact here's a quote from Brooks statements: I don’t know how involved with Dean Henley immediately became but eventually they became close friends and Henley became involved with Dean sexually to some extent, but I don’t know how much.

Brooks barely talked about anything I have no idea what you're going on about. In fact, when he did talk it was just to take the blame off himself. Henley was trying to be honest in his og statements but he made several factual errors as did Brooks due to misrememberin

That is not what Henley was mentioning with the handcuff trick. Again, it's in Ramsland's book and some of Henley's earlier accounts. It's plain as day that you didn't read the books and just got uour info by half reading things.
 
Also Henley was said by almost everyone to have been a very popular kid so it makes sense that the one kid who picks on him is the only one he decides to get revenge on.
 
And? Why would you need more than one example? Henley is picked on by kid known as local bully (which is all over newspaper accounts, Marty's death was by far the most justified by the public), said kid and his friend is last seen with Henley,, Corll brutally rapes and murders both. It's incredibly generous to read that any way but revenge on Henley's part. It's very clear you take Henley in incredibly good faith and give him a lot of benefit of the doubt and i don't understand why.
What.....I literally despise Henley and Brooks. I don't trust half of Henley's statements about the murders for various reasons but calling it revenge is a stretch. He chose Jones and Cobble because of the argument but he was so on drugs and high during those days I highly doubt he was thinking all that deeply about anything. Henley was at his most vicious on Schuler Street, on Lamar Drive he was getting sick of Corll's 🤬🤬🤬🤬. Interesting fact, while leading cops to the bodies, Charles Cobble and Marty Jones were the first ones he cried over because they were in the boatshed. It is in Olsen's book.
 
Also Henley was said by almost everyone to have been a very popular kid so it makes sense that the one kid who picks on him is the only one he decides to get revenge on.
Henley's had a group of kids who he hung out with that he protected but after his affiliation with Corll a lot of ppl started looking down on him because they thought he was turning tricks and he was drinking all the time. It's in lise Olsen's book. Most of the kids he himself lured were strangers or casual acquaintances bc he could charm them but the dude was using touch with reality at Lamar drive. I'm really not excusing Henley tho, I honestly think he should've gotten the death penalty. But Ramsland reported that when she first talked to him he told her not to diminish his responsibility until she made him see Corll's manipulation. He also apparently started having panic attacks the more questions she asked. I think his pathetic "I only did it to please dean" mantra is some sort of psychological defense mechanism. If only he felt bad enough to hang himself.
 
Half of Houston said the kids deserved it, it was all over newspaper accounts. It was clearly the prevailing narrative in the immediate aftermath and you could argue Brooks was trying to court public opinion and especially court favour with his father considering the circumstances.

When was Henley raped by Corll unless you mean statutorily? Henley said Corll paid him to give him oral sex, as in Dean gave Henley oral sex and it happened once. That's not dismissing that, it's horrific and Dean was a monster needless to say. But that's a far cry from Dean grooming and abusing Brooks since he was 12 years old and Henley himself participating in a torture session of him. I really don't care what you believe i'm going by the evidence.

Except, Rhonda's initial narrative was she fell and hurt her foot and none of her friends came and visited her so she was hiding out in her home in a bad mood. Then Henley came and saw her and offered to take her to Dean's to cheer her up. That's very different and removes the sense of urgency that the "protecting from abusive dad" narrative that was cooked up later suggests. Why would he bring Kerley or Rhonda there in the first place LMAO? This is getting so ludicrous. I'm going to bring this person to Dean's as a victim for no reason and also bring a girl to protect him.
Brooks first statements were in the first few days before he got a lawyer. The only ppl who thought the kids deserved it were the cops. Because they wanted to cover their asses. Brooks admitted that seeing Billy Lawrence die did not bother him bc he saw it so many times. To his credit tho, he did say it hurt him to see Lawrencenaked and bloody on Dean's bed. But he even said in his statement that he didn't participate in torturing a victim because "he had someplace to go." He tried to push most of the blame on Henley, who he originally lured to be killed. He lured a kid to Dean named randy Harvey bc he stole his stereo. Neither Henley nor Brooks were worse than the other they're both equally evil but I'm sure in their minds they think they were just making the best out of a bad situation. I think Brooks definitely felt remorse but he didn't want to face consequences and constantly tried to undermine his role, way more than Henley ever did. In fact Henley protected him by not mentioning him in his first statements to police and only started talking abt brooks once he showed up at the station.

Overall I'd say Henley was impulsive while Brooks was practical. I think Brooks used a way colder justification to rationalize his actions than Henley tho.
 
Henley was having sex with Rhonda anyway even though he was dating a girl named Lisa. Corll wanted him to bring Kerley there to have s x with him, but they left midway through the huffing and moonshine session. I think it was an oversight on Henley's drug-addled mind when he heard Rhonda's distress and invited her to Dean's. When Corll snapped, Henley's fast-talk persuaded him to release him. He may have initially intended to go ahead and ra pe her as promised but her survivor mindset and kowing how to minimize violence from male ra pists in her situation broke through to him as he had desensitized himself to harming males but not females.

I am sure some of Rhonda's recollections may have been selective as to what happened that night, and her role in it, but bringing a girl there was a no-no for Dean.

Everything about the crimes was escalating by the summer of '73. All three woke up to find themselves bound and we all know what happened afterward as Kerley and Williams' accounts corroborate Henley's.
Did Rhonda say she and Henley were having sex or dating? I know of several occasions where both said they had a sibling relationship and I assumed Henley was faithful to Lisa, that's what he claimed in the Vargas letters.
 
Henley was having sex with Rhonda anyway even though he was dating a girl named Lisa. Corll wanted him to bring Kerley there to have s x with him, but they left midway through the huffing and moonshine session. I think it was an oversight on Henley's drug-addled mind when he heard Rhonda's distress and invited her to Dean's. When Corll snapped, Henley's fast-talk persuaded him to release him. He may have initially intended to go ahead and ra pe her as promised but her survivor mindset and kowing how to minimize violence from male ra pists in her situation broke through to him as he had desensitized himself to harming males but not females.

I am sure some of Rhonda's recollections may have been selective as to what happened that night, and her role in it, but bringing a girl there was a no-no for Dean.

Everything about the crimes was escalating by the summer of '73. All three woke up to find themselves bound and we all know what happened afterward as Kerley and Williams' accounts corroborate Henley's.
I really don't think he planned on raping Rhonda. Like don't get me wrong Henley is horrible but it doesn't line up with the facts. Henley brought her there as a spontaneous move and he could've raped her when Corll tried to pressure him too, or he could've killed Rhonda and Tim after killing Corll to cover his tracks. Ramsland's and Jack Olsen's book explain what happened and there was no ulterior motives towards Rhonda imo other than him bringing her along to shield Kerley. It was in his very first statements. He and Kerley both wept near Corll's body b4 he called cops.
 
Here are my questions. In the picture I have, his name is spelled Garry Mitchum, plus I wasn't sure if the boy in the boots was Garry or Mike Mitchum. They are probably brothers. What are your thoughts?
I think the way this photo is labeled Mike and Garry Mitcham are the two dark haired guys with facial hair standing on the middle L and R and then top row is Wendy Brooks and Bill Dobe (can't see rest of his last name?) Bill is the one on the top row which is when I read your post the young man I though you were asking about in the striped pants and boots. Mike and Garry do look like brothers to me
 
I think there's plenty of truth and lies on both sides

@Nadal @Bored_To_Death @SpeedwellStalactite

Since it's just too cumbersome to edit together all those individual quote fragments, see this as general response - and thanks for some valuable anecdotal insights about the time and people involved.

Key take-aways:

Nadal's quote above to me sums up a general tendency (seen here and on Reddit) to i. e. apply by definition complex terms like 'truth' or 'lies' to persons, events and even timelines and then present a wild mix of personal and third-hand perceptions, sprawling anecdotal interpretations and kind of forensic conclusions and use them to label each such.

To me, this alarming literalness blows the considerable interest of the case, because these 'truths' and 'lies' actually always mean to 'prove' that someone did something or made a statement at a specific time that either corresponds to reality/the facts or deliberately falsified them against their better judgement.

In other words, it flattens the narrative to a simple police procedural - it repeats the 1973 investigation and adds a few more twists and choice informations but barely acknowledges the bigger issues at hand. Strike it from the list when it's backed up by 1 or 2 other guys.

I will not bore you here with the blurry boundaries between psychology, epistemology and ethics, subjective vs. objective truth and so on.

Just a few things:
- memories always move along a spectrum
- the ability to accept that something is unclear or contradictory is called ambiguity tolerance
- truth is not only fact, but also perspective - but you shouldn't confuse them

Also, considering the criminal, psychological and god-knows-what-else dimensions of the case, i find this bean-counting of incidents marking Brooks and Henley as 'bad apples' curious: imagine all those kids like them not running into Dean Corll. No one would give a s...t about this stuff. But suddenly it's all highly significant because of them running into DC.

<modsnip - antagonistic, personalizing>
 
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@Nadal @Bored_To_Death @SpeedwellStalactite

Since it's just too cumbersome to edit together all those individual quote fragments, see this as general response - and thanks for some valuable anecdotal insights about the time and people involved.
So you think some anecdotal insights are valuable but that it's unwise to come to a well thought out conclusion (for example Henley's SA at Corll's hands) with other anecdotal information?

I came to believe Henley participated in the sexual torture through these quotes from Ramsland's book: Henley said he did what Corll told him to do. He’d tell police later about electric shocks to genitals, the insertion of glass tubes into penises, pulling pubic hair, and other painful acts. “I did these things because Dean wanted me to do them. He’d direct me, ‘try this,’ ‘try that.’ I usually did [it but] didn’t do it again.”

“All the things that people refer to as torture [in this case], that was all Dean getting me to do this stuff. ‘Try this. Try that.’ The glass rod was a thing. It did not produce the results Dean wanted. The pubic hair pulling happened as a coercion technique. It was more ‘If you don’t mind me, this will happen.’ Once he got me to do any of it, he’d move on. But I didn’t always do it." —However, this is vague and confusing, especially considering before seeing Ramsland admit that it was Henley's idea to burn Scott with incense cones, I assumed it was Corll. I confess this was just a morbid curiosity of mine, but I don't understand why people are okay taking some things Henley said at face value and not others if it's inconvenient.

Also, do you not think Brooks torturing animals and either accomplices displaying antisocial tendencies prior to meeting Corll is relevant, or do you think any teenager could've been in their place and an accomplice if they had met Corll?

In Ramsland's book Henley said he strangled Scott to unconsciousness, not to death, because he was too exhausted to complete the murder and Corll had to finish it.

Questions I'd like your insight on: Did you find out Brooks was distressed at the physical state of Lawrence through Lise's book or elsewhere? Do you think it's possible he wanted to or was actively trying to procure female victims?

Disclaimer: My first comments on the sub to you were stolen from Mariatcc on reddit because I wanted to see what you thought about it (you're probably more objective than most on this subject).
 
I am always amazed that this serial killer is hardly talked about. The newest book out that I read a week ago, swimsuit boy is another confirmed victim, Branch? It reminds me of the Connecticut circus fire. I can see due to that state of remains a victim being misidentified.
 

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