UID Victim: The Asian Male, UP9355, John Doe #8, poss. died 1996-2001, found Gilgo Beach Apr 2011

[TheGardener]

Thinking out loud here with the idea I may be able to enlighten everyone about the relationship between Long Island (the main island) and Fire Island.
I grew up on Long Island and spent quite a few years traveling from the main island to Fire Island during the summer. Memorial Day kicks off the summer season when ferryboats are available to travel from the main island to Fire Island. The ferries run twice a day. Once in the morning to Fire Island and back, and again to Fire Island and back. For the most part, those ferries carry visitors who want to enjoy the municipal beaches of Atlantique or Ocean Beach. Doing so is a summer ritual going back long before I was a teenager (1967).
Although the beach runs the length of Fire Island, not all of the beaches are open to the public. Some are directly behind private residences and are not accessible from the road that runs the length of the island. All of them are accessible if you are willing to walk from the municipal beaches along the shoreline to other municipal beaches. Between those beaches are the beach areas used by private residents in the area.
Oftentimes, we would arrive at Atlantique Beach early in the morning, then walk via the beach route along the water to Ocean Beach. It was a long walk, but it afforded us an opportunity to glimpse another way of life and perhaps see a celebrity or two. Ocean Beach hosted an annual summer drag ball as far back as I can remember. Oftentimes, we saw young men taking the ferries from the main island to Fire Island carrying beautiful, sequined evening dresses on hangers covered with dry cleaning bags, and wig boxes. Over time, Ocean Beach came to be associated with the gay community, although it was also the home of members of New York City's more affluent, theater community, writers, and professional people. Ocean Beach was a kind of offbeat place for wealthy people to go slumming in relative peace.

Fire Island, where the designated, municipal beaches are, can be traversed by a series of boardwalks from the main island side, over Fire Island itself to the ocean side. In some places, it can be easily walked in about 10 minutes. There are also areas where there are thickets of swamp reeds, sea grapes, and other bramble-type bushes and shrubs. They are so thick and the brambles and stickers so nasty, that you would have to be an idiot or a very determined soul to try to gain access to the ocean side beach through them. I cannot imagine someone fighting their way through those brambles with heavy body parts, simply to stash them on the beach. The best route is to do it either from behind a private home, where the thickets have been chopped down to allow access to the beach, or along the routes cleared for the municipal beaches (which is highly unlikely as they're quite wide open and sometimes lighted). So, my guess is the killer had to access the beach through the back yard of a private residence.

Burlap. As I mentioned, the swamp thickets grow naturally along the beach and provide a windbreak for the wind blowing from the ocean over the island. It gets very windy by the ocean's edge. During certain months of the year, the wind is so strong that it blows sand from the beach into the back yards, homes and the road that stretches the length of the island. As a result, wherever those swamp thickets have been cleared for beach access or private homes, municipal workers and landscapers plant what's called "balled and burlapped" conifers along the dunes to prevent wind and sand erosion. A "balled and burlapped" conifer is a salt-resistant, small stature tree of about 6' tall with its roots wrapped in burlap and held together with wire or hempen cord. In order to plant this small tree, you have to dig a hole, cut the wire or cord, unwrap the burlap from the roots, put the tree in the ground and then water it. On a property with a 100' property line close to the ocean, you can easily place 30 trees in a line to form a wind break. That's 30 large pieces of burlap. That's a lot of burlap.

Now there's a number of things you can do with that burlap. Ordinarily, if you're an independent landscaper working for a wealthy person, you gather the burlap, chuck it back in your truck and take it home or back to your nursery. You don't leave a pile of burlap on a wealthy customers back lawn. You take it away with you. The same goes for municipal workers. After you plant, you clean up. You bring the burlap back to your municipal work station. Once the burlap is back on your own turf, you can either save it for future use, burn it, or dispose of it. Most landscapers hold some of it back for future use, but don't stockpile it, because if a pile of burlap remains in the sun for too long...it spontaneously combusts. Yes, it catches on fire, just as grass clippings do. Nurseries, on the other hand, will keep a lot of it around for future use with a directive to have the employees "turn" it (flip it over) so that it doesn't catch on fire. They will also keep some for customers when they ask for small pieces for home gardening.

How do I know all of this? My father was a landscaper on Long Island from 1950 until 1971.

When I read about these murders, I immediately thought about that burlap and who might have access to it. My conclusion was that it had to be a landscaper, a nurseryman, a municipal worker, a carpenter working where new home construction required new installations of "balled and burlapped" trees and plants, or a nursery worker. Outside of that, I cannot think of another profession or reason for someone to require a constant or secure knowledge of where burlap may be used, stored or obtained.

I've also been thinking about "John Doe", the Asian male. I really don't think he's connected to the other killings. Since we don't know much about the manner of his death, we only know he was the sole male victim, he wasn't wrapped in burlap, wasn't dismembered. Fire Island hosts a LOT of partying for members of the gay community. Its quite possible that this young man may have overdosed at a party, or met up with someone who was intentionally looking for rough sex that went beyond the boundaries. I think he's an anomaly. In fact, he may have been buried directly behind or near the house where it happened. His friends might have panicked and just buried him out of fear of being found out, or his client/killer buried him there to hide his crime.


Hope this has been helpful.

 

[Sherlockknows]

Thinking out loud here with the idea I may be able to enlighten everyone about the relationship between Long Island (the main island) and Fire Island.
I grew up on Long Island and spent quite a few years traveling from the main island to Fire Island during the summer. Memorial Day kicks off the summer season when ferryboats are available to travel from the main island to Fire Island. The ferries run twice a day. Once in the morning to Fire Island and back, and again to Fire Island and back. For the most part, those ferries carry visitors who want to enjoy the municipal beaches of Atlantique or Ocean Beach. Doing so is a summer ritual going back long before I was a teenager (1967).
Although the beach runs the length of Fire Island, not all of the beaches are open to the public. Some are directly behind private residences and are not accessible from the road that runs the length of the island. All of them are accessible if you are willing to walk from the municipal beaches along the shoreline to other municipal beaches. Between those beaches are the beach areas used by private residents in the area.
Oftentimes, we would arrive at Atlantique Beach early in the morning, then walk via the beach route along the water to Ocean Beach. It was a long walk, but it afforded us an opportunity to glimpse another way of life and perhaps see a celebrity or two. Ocean Beach hosted an annual summer drag ball as far back as I can remember. Oftentimes, we saw young men taking the ferries from the main island to Fire Island carrying beautiful, sequined evening dresses on hangers covered with dry cleaning bags, and wig boxes. Over time, Ocean Beach came to be associated with the gay community, although it was also the home of members of New York City's more affluent, theater community, writers, and professional people. Ocean Beach was a kind of offbeat place for wealthy people to go slumming in relative peace.

Fire Island, where the designated, municipal beaches are, can be traversed by a series of boardwalks from the main island side, over Fire Island itself to the ocean side. In some places, it can be easily walked in about 10 minutes. There are also areas where there are thickets of swamp reeds, sea grapes, and other bramble-type bushes and shrubs. They are so thick and the brambles and stickers so nasty, that you would have to be an idiot or a very determined soul to try to gain access to the ocean side beach through them. I cannot imagine someone fighting their way through those brambles with heavy body parts, simply to stash them on the beach. The best route is to do it either from behind a private home, where the thickets have been chopped down to allow access to the beach, or along the routes cleared for the municipal beaches (which is highly unlikely as they're quite wide open and sometimes lighted). So, my guess is the killer had to access the beach through the back yard of a private residence.

Burlap. As I mentioned, the swamp thickets grow naturally along the beach and provide a windbreak for the wind blowing from the ocean over the island. It gets very windy by the ocean's edge. During certain months of the year, the wind is so strong that it blows sand from the beach into the back yards, homes and the road that stretches the length of the island. As a result, wherever those swamp thickets have been cleared for beach access or private homes, municipal workers and landscapers plant what's called "balled and burlapped" conifers along the dunes to prevent wind and sand erosion. A "balled and burlapped" conifer is a salt-resistant, small stature tree of about 6' tall with its roots wrapped in burlap and held together with wire or hempen cord. In order to plant this small tree, you have to dig a hole, cut the wire or cord, unwrap the burlap from the roots, put the tree in the ground and then water it. On a property with a 100' property line close to the ocean, you can easily place 30 trees in a line to form a wind break. That's 30 large pieces of burlap. That's a lot of burlap.

Now there's a number of things you can do with that burlap. Ordinarily, if you're an independent landscaper working for a wealthy person, you gather the burlap, chuck it back in your truck and take it home or back to your nursery. You don't leave a pile of burlap on a wealthy customers back lawn. You take it away with you. The same goes for municipal workers. After you plant, you clean up. You bring the burlap back to your municipal work station. Once the burlap is back on your own turf, you can either save it for future use, burn it, or dispose of it. Most landscapers hold some of it back for future use, but don't stockpile it, because if a pile of burlap remains in the sun for too long...it spontaneously combusts. Yes, it catches on fire, just as grass clippings do. Nurseries, on the other hand, will keep a lot of it around for future use with a directive to have the employees "turn" it (flip it over) so that it doesn't catch on fire. They will also keep some for customers when they ask for small pieces for home gardening.

How do I know all of this? My father was a landscaper on Long Island from 1950 until 1971.

When I read about these murders, I immediately thought about that burlap and who might have access to it. My conclusion was that it had to be a landscaper, a nurseryman, a municipal worker, a carpenter working where new home construction required new installations of "balled and burlapped" trees and plants, or a nursery worker. Outside of that, I cannot think of another profession or reason for someone to require a constant or secure knowledge of where burlap may be used, stored or obtained.

I've also been thinking about "John Doe", the Asian male. I really don't think he's connected to the other killings. Since we don't know much about the manner of his death, we only know he was the sole male victim, he wasn't wrapped in burlap, wasn't dismembered. Fire Island hosts a LOT of partying for members of the gay community. Its quite possible that this young man may have overdosed at a party, or met up with someone who was intentionally looking for rough sex that went beyond the boundaries. I think he's an anomaly. In fact, he may have been buried directly behind or near the house where it happened. His friends might have panicked and just buried him out of fear of being found out, or his client/killer buried him there to hide his crime.


Hope this has been helpful.

Rifkin said Landscaper, construction I think, and a fisherman. You are thinking like them now. Good man

Great info


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[PictureSnatcher]

Thinking out loud here with the idea I may be able to enlighten everyone about the relationship between Long Island (the main island) and Fire Island.
I grew up on Long Island and spent quite a few years traveling from the main island to Fire Island during the summer. Memorial Day kicks off the summer season when ferryboats are available to travel from the main island to Fire Island. The ferries run twice a day. Once in the morning to Fire Island and back, and again to Fire Island and back. For the most part, those ferries carry visitors who want to enjoy the municipal beaches of Atlantique or Ocean Beach. Doing so is a summer ritual going back long before I was a teenager (1967).
Although the beach runs the length of Fire Island, not all of the beaches are open to the public. Some are directly behind private residences and are not accessible from the road that runs the length of the island. All of them are accessible if you are willing to walk from the municipal beaches along the shoreline to other municipal beaches. Between those beaches are the beach areas used by private residents in the area.
Oftentimes, we would arrive at Atlantique Beach early in the morning, then walk via the beach route along the water to Ocean Beach. It was a long walk, but it afforded us an opportunity to glimpse another way of life and perhaps see a celebrity or two. Ocean Beach hosted an annual summer drag ball as far back as I can remember. Oftentimes, we saw young men taking the ferries from the main island to Fire Island carrying beautiful, sequined evening dresses on hangers covered with dry cleaning bags, and wig boxes. Over time, Ocean Beach came to be associated with the gay community, although it was also the home of members of New York City's more affluent, theater community, writers, and professional people. Ocean Beach was a kind of offbeat place for wealthy people to go slumming in relative peace.

Fire Island, where the designated, municipal beaches are, can be traversed by a series of boardwalks from the main island side, over Fire Island itself to the ocean side. In some places, it can be easily walked in about 10 minutes. There are also areas where there are thickets of swamp reeds, sea grapes, and other bramble-type bushes and shrubs. They are so thick and the brambles and stickers so nasty, that you would have to be an idiot or a very determined soul to try to gain access to the ocean side beach through them. I cannot imagine someone fighting their way through those brambles with heavy body parts, simply to stash them on the beach. The best route is to do it either from behind a private home, where the thickets have been chopped down to allow access to the beach, or along the routes cleared for the municipal beaches (which is highly unlikely as they're quite wide open and sometimes lighted). So, my guess is the killer had to access the beach through the back yard of a private residence.

Burlap. As I mentioned, the swamp thickets grow naturally along the beach and provide a windbreak for the wind blowing from the ocean over the island. It gets very windy by the ocean's edge. During certain months of the year, the wind is so strong that it blows sand from the beach into the back yards, homes and the road that stretches the length of the island. As a result, wherever those swamp thickets have been cleared for beach access or private homes, municipal workers and landscapers plant what's called "balled and burlapped" conifers along the dunes to prevent wind and sand erosion. A "balled and burlapped" conifer is a salt-resistant, small stature tree of about 6' tall with its roots wrapped in burlap and held together with wire or hempen cord. In order to plant this small tree, you have to dig a hole, cut the wire or cord, unwrap the burlap from the roots, put the tree in the ground and then water it. On a property with a 100' property line close to the ocean, you can easily place 30 trees in a line to form a wind break. That's 30 large pieces of burlap. That's a lot of burlap.

Now there's a number of things you can do with that burlap. Ordinarily, if you're an independent landscaper working for a wealthy person, you gather the burlap, chuck it back in your truck and take it home or back to your nursery. You don't leave a pile of burlap on a wealthy customers back lawn. You take it away with you. The same goes for municipal workers. After you plant, you clean up. You bring the burlap back to your municipal work station. Once the burlap is back on your own turf, you can either save it for future use, burn it, or dispose of it. Most landscapers hold some of it back for future use, but don't stockpile it, because if a pile of burlap remains in the sun for too long...it spontaneously combusts. Yes, it catches on fire, just as grass clippings do. Nurseries, on the other hand, will keep a lot of it around for future use with a directive to have the employees "turn" it (flip it over) so that it doesn't catch on fire. They will also keep some for customers when they ask for small pieces for home gardening.

How do I know all of this? My father was a landscaper on Long Island from 1950 until 1971.

When I read about these murders, I immediately thought about that burlap and who might have access to it. My conclusion was that it had to be a landscaper, a nurseryman, a municipal worker, a carpenter working where new home construction required new installations of "balled and burlapped" trees and plants, or a nursery worker. Outside of that, I cannot think of another profession or reason for someone to require a constant or secure knowledge of where burlap may be used, stored or obtained.

I've also been thinking about "John Doe", the Asian male. I really don't think he's connected to the other killings. Since we don't know much about the manner of his death, we only know he was the sole male victim, he wasn't wrapped in burlap, wasn't dismembered. Fire Island hosts a LOT of partying for members of the gay community. Its quite possible that this young man may have overdosed at a party, or met up with someone who was intentionally looking for rough sex that went beyond the boundaries. I think he's an anomaly. In fact, he may have been buried directly behind or near the house where it happened. His friends might have panicked and just buried him out of fear of being found out, or his client/killer buried him there to hide his crime.


Hope this has been helpful.

What's the purpose of posting the exact same thing twice in two different threads? Not trying to be rude it's just a bit redundant. I think everyone who is reading on this sub forum here is also reading the main LISK forum.

 

[TheGardener]

Here's something else to consider...
All of these bodies were found in or near state parks.
1. "Peaches" - torso found Hempstead Lake State Park
2. Jane Doe #6 and Jessica Taylor - torsos found in or near Eastport Pine Barrows State Forest
3. Rita Tangredi - near Fireplace Neck Tidal Wetlands
4. "Cherries" body parts - Near Caumsett State Park
5. The rest of the dead - Fire Island - One giant state recreation area.

Although I believe there are three individuals at work here, I believe the dismemberer is someone who is a native Long Islander, or someone who grew up on the Island and is familiar with all of the outdoor natural reserves and recreation areas. He's knows them and the routes to and from them. Tanya Rush and Colleen McNamee were probably dumped roadside on their way to being dumped at one of the recreation areas when the killer was spooked for some reason and decided to unload them alongside the road. Otherwise, they'd be in a nature reserve or beach site as well. I also believe that his need to kill, dismember and dump in these recreational areas has shaped his profession. This isn't the work of an accountant. He's used to being out of doors and free to drive around. He may have his own landscaping or carpentry business, or he may be a municipal (state park) landscape maintenance man. He's probably driving a pickup truck...one he uses for work. He's probably done some hunting in those areas from the time of his early childhood to the present. He knows how to catch, kill and dismember carcasses. He probably owns more than a few specialized knives for making various cuts. He doesn't mind working in a mess of gore and he flings parts all over the Island.

Burlap man is a little different. He likes making neat packages and lining them up in a neat row. He's not a hunter. He likes his prey coming to him. This fellow is more of a white collar kind of guy who has the same kind of knowledge and access, but may be in a more supervisory or ownership position.

Asian Male is just a poor unfortunate soul who either overdosed or had a bad experience with someone who may or may not have intended to kill him.

None of these guys knew they were burying their dead next to the work of another killer.

 

[TheGardener]

What's the purpose of posting the exact same thing twice in two different threads? Not trying to be rude it's just a bit redundant. I think everyone who is reading on this sub forum here is also reading the main LISK forum.

I apologize and meant no harm. I just wasn't sure which thread was best. I'm new. Feel free to remove them, if you wish. I'll be more mindful in the future.

 

[PictureSnatcher]

Here's something else to consider...
All of these bodies were found in or near state parks.
1. "Peaches" - torso found Hempstead Lake State Park
2. Jane Doe #6 and Jessica Taylor - torsos found in or near Eastport Pine Barrows State Forest
3. Rita Tangredi - near Fireplace Neck Tidal Wetlands
4. "Cherries" body parts - Near Caumsett State Park
5. The rest of the dead - Fire Island - One giant state recreation area.

Although I believe there are three individuals at work here, I believe the dismemberer is someone who is a native Long Islander, or someone who grew up on the Island and is familiar with all of the outdoor natural reserves and recreation areas. He's knows them and the routes to and from them. Tanya Rush and Colleen McNamee were probably dumped roadside on their way to being dumped at one of the recreation areas when the killer was spooked for some reason and decided to unload them alongside the road. Otherwise, they'd be in a nature reserve or beach site as well. I also believe that his need to kill, dismember and dump in these recreational areas has shaped his profession. This isn't the work of an accountant. He's used to being out of doors and free to drive around. He may have his own landscaping or carpentry business, or he may be a municipal (state park) landscape maintenance man. He's probably driving a pickup truck...one he uses for work. He's probably done some hunting in those areas from the time of his early childhood to the present. He knows how to catch, kill and dismember carcasses. He probably owns more than a few specialized knives for making various cuts. He doesn't mind working in a mess of gore and he flings parts all over the Island.

Burlap man is a little different. He likes making neat packages and lining them up in a neat row. He's not a hunter. He likes his prey coming to him. This fellow is more of a white collar kind of guy.

Asian Male is just a poor unfortunate soul who either overdosed or had a bad experience with someone who may or may not have intended to kill him.

None of these guys knew they were burying their dead next to the work of another killer.

You know Asian male was beaten right? Very unlikely an overdose. And if he died on FI, how would they have got the body from FI to Jones Beach? And no one was buried....

Tanya Rush was dismembered in 2008, Colleen McNamee was killed by John Bittrolff in 1994.

Also, you keep confusing Fire Island with Jones Beach

 

[TheGardener]

You know Asian male was beaten right? Very unlikely an overdose. And if he died on FI, how would they have got the body from FI to Jones Beach? And no one was buried....

Tanya Rush was dismembered in 2008, Colleen McNamee was killed by John Bittrolff in 1994.

Also, you keep confusing Fire Island with Jones Beach

There is a road running through the villages on Fire Island to the Robert Moses Causeway up through Captree State Park. To the left off the causeway is Oak Beach, then Gilgo through to Jones Beach. They are accessible to one another. I also mentioned that the Asian man could have died during a rough sex encounter.

We are thinking out loud and comparing scant and oftentimes conflicting information. I do believe we have the best of intentions. I again apologize if I've offended anyone.

 

[DQN]

http://nypost.com/2005/09/26/nypd-daily-blotter-1210/

He got in a cab with a guy in the West Village it is a very gay area in the city, bars like Ramrods, Off broadway shows: "Naked boys singing" they may have met in a bar, where ever the cab drove him he never came back, it would have been a 70 dollar cab ride to Long Island.

 

[Armchair-reader]

There is a road running through the villages on Fire Island to the Robert Moses Causeway up through Captree State Park. To the left off the causeway is Oak Beach, then Gilgo through to Jones Beach. They are accessible to one another. I also mentioned that the Asian man could have died during a rough sex encounter.

We are thinking out loud and comparing scant and oftentimes conflicting information. I do believe we have the best of intentions. I again apologize if I've offended anyone.

Don't sweat it Gardener. I don't read every thread. I have lots to do. My life is pretty active. It happens we get our islands and beaches mixed up. The important thing is there are people here volunteering their time and trying. You are doing great. There are years and years worth of info and theories about LISK and victims.

 

[PictureSnatcher]

I apologize and meant no harm. I just wasn't sure which thread was best. I'm new. Feel free to remove them, if you wish. I'll be more mindful in the future.

No worries I was just pointing out my opinion

 

[Emre E]

what's more interesting in that story is;
http://nypost.com/2005/09/26/nypd-daily-blotter-1210/

* An intoxicated man was stabbed by three thu-gs who tried to rob him yesterday in a Greenwich Village subway station, police sources said."


Talks about three men operating in the same area.. It's the second report on that page.

Now the following is from a blog post about Rashawn Brazzel's murder

Two guys from Newark, NJ, had approached them all for sex in front of the Salvation Army. I will call them C & D…. A said he remembered telling Rashawn to ignore those guys and lets head on down to Christopher St. Rashawn Continue to engage in a friendly conversation, with C and exchanged Cell phone numbers and agreed to meet up another time.

On the Pier on Christopher St, Rashawn told A that C wants to get a Hotel Room and Hookup on Valentines day….C came to Rashawn house to meet him before he went to get his taxes done…A said Rashawn call him later that day crying on the phone and he said he kept asking rashawn what’s wrong……..Rashawn said him and C went to get the Room but its a setup….Rashawn said there are 2 other dudes in the room….

https://projectnewera.wordpress.com/2008/04/01/unsolved-murder-rashawn-brazell/

If Tirrel turns out to be the Asian Male then his story may mirror Rashawn's story. Interesting for me that Rashawn's story has aspects mirrorring Melissa Barthelemy's story.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ed-Victims-**MERGED**&p=11056888#post11056888

 

[Armchair-reader]

Does anybody remember the Club Kids of New York. I wonder if any of these clubs is where Asian Doe would have hung out.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_Kids

I know nothing about New York.

 

[DaisyChains]

I'm thinking Asian Doe probably did what Jessica Taylor was doing - very low level and risky street prostitution at heavily populated areas like the Port Authority and Manhattan (Where LISK called MB's sister from).

Or Asian Doe could have been trafficked by someone like this accused trafficker out of NY and subsequently killed by their trafficker:
http://www.trentonian.com/article/TT/20160901/NEWS/160909987

Also, I think it is important to note that Michael Pak had been busted for trafficking people into the US from China. I also remember Pak speaking in an interview about how he stayed until nearly 6 am on the causeway looking for Shanan Gilbert. I always will wonder why Gilbert ran from Pak that night... as if she feared for her life even with him. Not that Pak is LISK, but I just think all of these coincidences are interesting.

 

[Sherlockknows]

I'm thinking Asian Doe probably did what Jessica Taylor was doing - very low level and risky street prostitution at heavily populated areas like the Port Authority and Manhattan (Where LISK called MB's sister from).

Or Asian Doe could have been trafficked by someone like this accused trafficker out of NY and subsequently killed by their trafficker:
http://www.trentonian.com/article/TT/20160901/NEWS/160909987

Also, I think it is important to note that Michael Pak had been busted for trafficking people into the US from China. I also remember Pak speaking in an interview about how he stayed until nearly 6 am on the causeway looking for Shanan Gilbert. I always will wonder why Gilbert ran from Pak that night... as if she feared for her life even with him. Not that Pak is LISK, but I just think all of these coincidences are interesting.

She could have heard something. However, I do believe there was a heavy drug taken, maybe hallucinogenic I read on another website an escort, speaking about Gilbert, saying she knew they was something she had. She could very easily have been part of a drugs racket and immigrants being used as low level dealers. Maybe cops are making a bit on the side....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[DaisyChains]

I worry Asian John Doe endured a life like this:


“The Grim Reality of Life on the Streets

Many runaways return home within 48 hours after they leave. But many of those who stay away from home for longer periods face harrowing lives on the streets. Large numbers become involved in prostitution or child . “I can take you to Times Square …and I can show you children 10, nine, 11 years of age, boys and girls, selling their bodies,” Dotson Rader told the House Human Resources Subcommittee last year. “They run away, they are picked up at the Port Authority [bus terminal] and they are picked up in Times Square by pimps. They are addicted to heroin. They are beaten up and they are put on the street and …when a child like Warren, for example, one of the boys I interviewed, has a rectal hemorrhage, he is killed.”


http://library.cqpress.com/cqresearcher/document.php?id=cqresrre1983021100

 

[Sherlockknows]

I worry Asian John Doe endured a life like this:


“The Grim Reality of Life on the Streets

Many runaways return home within 48 hours after they leave. But many of those who stay away from home for longer periods face harrowing lives on the streets. Large numbers become involved in prostitution or child . “I can take you to Times Square …and I can show you children 10, nine, 11 years of age, boys and girls, selling their bodies,” Dotson Rader told the House Human Resources Subcommittee last year. “They run away, they are picked up at the Port Authority [bus terminal] and they are picked up in Times Square by pimps. They are addicted to heroin. They are beaten up and they are put on the street and …when a child like Warren, for example, one of the boys I interviewed, has a rectal hemorrhage, he is killed.”


http://library.cqpress.com/cqresearcher/document.php?id=cqresrre1983021100

You never get documentaries on big cities relating to things like this.

If anything comes out of the search it may be to get these kids more protection.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Evey]

Rifkin is clever, and might not want to be associated with a dead child. He is in prison after all.

Then the four others including Asian Male could be a disgruntled Pimp making it seem like a serial killer, chopping up the bodies because all the markings lead to one man, someone they are all afraid of....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Or their drug dealer but yea it could easily be a pimp or dealer who maybe enjoys killing so when someone isn't paying up or making him money or he's worried they'll snitch he offs them. My bet is he lives near enough to know the area. Rifkin is smart I agree though he seemed like almost insulted that people even asked him but maybe the ones who could have washed up on shore could be his? Anyone who wants to link the best images of each unknown victim of lisk I will pass them along to my escort friend and ask her to show them to her women's groups she goes to multiple as well as helps girls working the streets out by giving pepper spray etc and I think she would be down to ask around and pass the inages around maybe if we have a flyer for each one I can save them and send her them(I'm guessing there's flyers already I'm just having issues with my phone so it'll be a task to find them) she made a post recently about how they've taken backpage down so I wonder where all those girls will go, hopefully not Craigslist

 

[Evey]

If they ever found the cabbie he might be able to describe the man, but they'd have to find both the man and the cabbie for him to be identified. Tirrel was a 16 year old high school kid, if the man in the cab was one of his friends they probably would have more info and getting into the cab on 10th & Hudson wouldn't be considered the last time he was seen.

Tirrel went by Mia and dressed as a female. Just because he was a 16 year old who wore female clothes doesn't mean he was a sex worker. I's possible, but the kid went to a special theater school on 43rd

My guess is the killer would be in his vehicle or location so the cab driver would only maybe know that but I think the killer woukd be too careful. Now the Asian male could just be a cross dresser or drag queen or male stripper or gogo dancer and had one article of women's clothing maybe ge eas skinny and could wear a girl she booty shorts and fishnets for dancing. The killer also could be mixing And matching his victims clothes and items but why was he a skeleton and cherry and peaches weren't?

 

[Evey]

Or what if it was two friends, two killers, who have now both committed suicide, one with access to bags one with not....


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I think that guy killed himself out of guilt of knowing he sold the killer burlap bags(maybe not knowing who exactly) or knowing he gave the killer some cause they were friends. But I also think we should look into other jobs that would have those. Maybe e had an idea who the killer was so the killer killed him making it seem like suicide or he killed himself knowing he couldn't turn the person in but felt immense guilt

 

[Evey]

We don't, but we have nothing else to go on. There is no information aside from that police blotter. And if you think about it, it makes sense. Were did young gay minorities congregate in 2005? Around Christopher street. It makes absolute sense he would be there. Aug 21 was a Sunday night. He went to Repertory High School, a theater high school on w 43rd st. This wasn't some crack addicted homeless street walker. I'm not sure if school would be back in session yet. But in my opinion, the circumstances of his disappearance make sense with the details of the LISK case. But no one seems to be looking carefully enough at the details of the Manorville cases.

But one issue is wouldn't he be in normal clothes and not girls then? Less he was openly trans or killed in the theater during practice