UK - 22 dead in explosion at Ariana Grande gig, Manchester, 22 May 2017 #1

[Ironside]

I don't think the date or AG being American was a factor. I'd guess the bomber just wanted to target the arena whenever and it just so happened the bomb was ready to go that day.

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[margarita25]

I don't think the date or AG being American was a factor. I'd guess the bomber just wanted to target the arena whenever and it just so happened the bomb was ready to go that day.

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My initial thought is to respectfully disagree on the basis that I think more planning likely went into to executing such an attack; however, I remember an Al Qaeda documentary I watched where the bombers were on standby, and they would "get the call", iirc, maybe I'm imagining this lol...but something along the lines of them being ready, then a leader gives them an order to suddenly move...maybe the leaders know more and do the planning, and the less the bombers know in advance the better for the secrecy of the operation.

I remember it was a documentary on the hotel bombing in India, maybe, by the Pakistanis?

 

[Ironside]

My initial thought is to respectfully disagree on the basis that I think more planning likely went into to executing such an attack; however, I remember an Al Qaeda documentary I watched where the bombers were on standby, and they would "get the call", iirc, maybe im imagining this lol...but something along the lines of themy being ready, then a leader gives them an order to suddenly move...maybe the less they know in advance the better for the secrecy of the operation.

Exactly, bomb making is quite tricky. It would be hard to pick a gig in advance to target as no guarantee the bomb would be ready. You don't want to leave an improvised bomb lying around for months waiting either. I think the arena was certainly picked as a target but not the specific date. It's just even more sad that it happened at a concert that so many young children were at.

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[zencompass]

The information in this article (below) dismays me. People are urged to contact the authorities when they are aware that someone is embracing ISIS or appear radicalized. Instead, the people who observed this then speak to reporters after the attack and describe their suspicions and knowledge. It's too late then.

It does not help humanity after an attack that we read about people who had knowledge that a person they know or attend a mosque with appears to be in support of ISIS.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4535806/The-British-born-bomber-red-brick-semi.html

 

[zencompass]

Oceanblueeyes spoke about the concern with trips to Libya.

From this article:

"Abedi's travel is being scrutinized because recent intelligence obtained by the US suggests that ISIS has set up an external operations wing in Libya tasked with plotting attacks in Europe. The group has already used Libyan soil to train recruits for attacks in Tunisia"

"Anis Amri, the Tunisian extremist who killed 14 in Berlin last December, was reportedly in communication with the group in Libya before his attack via an encryption app."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/24/opinions/britain-libya-terror-connection/

 

[margarita25]

We were on heightened security alert for such a long time after 9/11; I expect the same here, moo.

 

[creepcrusher]

As I sit here and think about all of the horrific carnage, and barbaric murders and serious injuries Isis, and other radical extremists have done.... my heart breaks for all of the victims worldwide. Those who have had their lives taken away or forever changed by severe injuries in so many parts of the world including our own.

I was reading this morning about how Islamic extremists in our country have been targeting others to murder or severely injure since the 60s or 70s. Many on the list I never even heard about, and several were done by those belonging to the Nation of Islam back then. Of course in the recent years we have seen the extremists supporting Isis or were/are Isis sympathizers or sympathizers of another terrorist group.

While we have mass murders happening by American born citizens very rarely do they do it in the name of their religion. Many of them had no religious ties at all. Of course like in every country the citizens of each country carries out the most crimes which makes logical sense since they are the majority of the population in each country.

What is different about these radical extremists is the way they relish in carrying out their mass murders. They prefer the most heinous manners of death to innocent others whether it is done to innocent Muslims, Christians or innocent people from a civilized free society. They drown, they burn their victims alive, they use suicide bombers causing the most horrific damage possible by tearing their victims apart. It is all so barbaric and even those who may live through their attack will always carry the horrific scars reminding them daily that the terrorists left their mark on them forever...both physically and mentally. I am afraid we are going to hear that many of the Manchester victims may lose limbs.

Isis and other terrorists like them are the worst mass murderers the world has ever known in the 21st century.

We can never accept this as being normal. Never. I am thankful that many extremists in our country has been stopped from carrying out their plot to destroy us in mass. I am also thankful the FBI takes radical extremists very seriously and has over 1000 open cases in all 50 states. It shows they are here and they are plotting and hopefully they will be stopped before they act.

I have no doubt the fine investigators in the UK have also stopped many fanatical extremists from carrying out their diabolical plans to murder in mass. Those extremists were stopped but it wasn't because they didn't plot and plan to commit mass murder. They were stopped because of law enforcement investigators in various countries thank goodness and prevented another mass tragedy from happening like it has happened in Manchester.

I know this may not be a popular opinion but imo, anyone who is an average citizen from any country that goes to a terrorist country should not be allowed to return to their country when law enforcement has them already on their radar as being possible terrorists or has terrorists ties. We already know once Libya fell radical extremists took over just like they did in Iraq and they are in over 30 countries now spreading like a cancer committing heinous barbaric murders each and every day.

They are the worst barbaric mass murderers in the 21st century along with other radical extremists who are as depraved as Isis is. Those who say they do all of this madness in a name of religion they hide behind to deceive. They are not religious. IMO. They are a cult group filled with nothing more than depraved sadists, and sociopaths who takes great pleasure in destroying others in the most inhumane ways possible. Imo.

My heart breaks for all of the Muslims, Christians, and all of the other innocent victims all over the world who have lost their lives or were seriously injured by the most evil among us. Everyone must come together to eradicate these evildoers who are obsessed in carrying out the most barbaric ways to commit murders including mass casualties as possible.

We must fight them as the cancerous sub-humans they are.

Prayers for all in Manchester!

I agree with you 100%. And we need more law enforcement. There are so many people on their watchlist that they don't have enough manpower to stop every attack from happening. People on their watchlist need to have surveillance on them constantly IMO. Too many of these "known radicals" are still getting away with committing these crimes.

 

[zencompass]

From this article:

"An unnamed school friend of the Salford University dropout told The Times Abedi had just arrived back from Libya, a country where terrorist training is available from jihadist camps.

"He went to Libya three weeks ago and came back recently, like days ago," the friend is reported to have said."



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...r-bombing-ariana-grande-concert-a7752361.html

 

[shadowdancer]

You are not alone. I have been appalled by the behavior of our MSM too.

I am ashamed of their behavior, and I am so sorry they have leaked the evidence that should have remained private, but, sadly, I am not at all shocked they did so.

The most worrying part is the fact that its the US intelligence services who are responsible for leaking this information so that the US media can print it.

I am sorry to say that I don't think that the US can be trusted with our information anymore.

 

[zencompass]

Dear Oceanblueeyes,

Quote from Oceanblueeyes: "I know this may not be a popular opinion but imo, anyone who is an average citizen from any country that goes to a terrorist country should not be allowed to return to their country when law enforcement has them already on their radar as being possible terrorists or has terrorists ties."

I believe your opinion is more popular than you think. I certainly agree with you and I know I am not alone.

 

[margarita25]

Article from October of last year:

ISIS Recruits Criminals To Carry Out Attacks In Europe, Report Finds
http://www.npr.org/2016/10/14/49799...s-to-carry-out-attacks-in-europe-report-finds

"NEUMANN: The implication of it is really that on the one hand, that ISIS is offering these young recruits a lot of things that previously gangs used to offer them - a very strong identity, a sense of power, adventure and being superior to everyone else.

And in many cases, in fact ISIS recruits are often joining ISIS as a form of redemption almost. We found these stories about, you know - like, with all the things I've done, I want to do something good. And as crazy as that may sound to us, that's how they often feel."

 

[zencompass]

Training in Libya jihadist camp is not new to authorities. From the below article from 2015:

"Tunisian authorities have said the gunman who killed 38 tourists in Sousse on Friday was trained at the same Libyan jihadist camp as the two suicide gunmen who attacked the Bardo museum in Tunis in March."

"At least 21 Britons are known to have died when Rezgui, 23, rampaged through the luxury Imperial Marhaba hotel on the Sousse beachfront."



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...eifeddine-rezgui-libya-bardo-museum-attackers

 

[gregjrichards]

The most worrying part is the fact that its the US intelligence services who are responsible for leaking this information so that the US media can print it.

I am sorry to say that I don't think that the US can be trusted with our information anymore.

I am absolutely disgusted images of the bomb shrapnel from the crime scene have been released. The victims families should not have to see what killed their loved ones.

 

[shadowdancer]

I am absolutely disgusted images of the bomb shrapnel from the crime scene have been released. The victims families should not have to see what killed their loved ones.

They wouldn't have been released if the US intelligence services hadn't leaked them.

I'm furious. How dare they do this?

 

[zencompass]

I am appalled and so sorry to hear of this being published.

 

[crhedBngr]

I am appalled and so sorry to hear of this being published.

As am I.

 

[margarita25]

"Manchester is also the home of a sizeable contingent of former members of the Libyan Islamic Fighting group, a jihadi group that battled Gadhafi but never embraced Osama bin Laden's global jihad.

As CNN reported in 2012, one former British-Libyan resident of Manchester, Abdulbasit Azuz, 51, was tasked by al Qaeda leader Ayman al Zawahiri with building the group's presence in eastern Libya after the fall of the Gadhafi regime.

Azuz's current whereabouts are unclear,*but it is possible he fled to Syria*after US stepped up counterterrorism operations in Libya following the Benghazi consulate attack."

[video=cnn;world/2017/05/23/manchester-day-after-the-attack-lon-orig.cnn]http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/24/opinions/britain-libya-terror-connection/index.html[/video]

 

[shadowdancer]

They say its in times of crisis that you find out who your real friends are, and the US intelligence service has been no friend of our UK law enforcement during this time.

 

[margarita25]

Found at the Scene in Manchester: Shrapnel, a Backpack and a Battery
By C. J. CHIVERS MAY 24, 2017

"The bomber in the Manchester terrorist attack appeared to have carried a powerful explosive in a lightweight metal container concealed either within a black vest or a blue Karrimor backpack, and may have held a small detonator in his left hand, according to preliminary information gathered by British authorities."

(Link below shows the evidence some of you are discussing that you wish wasn't released, so scroll if you are sensitive to this! :wave: )

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...chester-arena-bomb-materials-photos.html?_r=0

 

[margarita25]

Exactly, bomb making is quite tricky. It would be hard to pick a gig in advance to target as no guarantee the bomb would be ready. You don't want to leave an improvised bomb lying around for months waiting either. I think the arena was certainly picked as a target but not the specific date. It's just even more sad that it happened at a concert that so many young children were at.

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Makes sense, thank you.