UK - Alesha MacPhail, 6, raped & murdered, Ardbeg, Isle of Bute, Scotland, 2 Jul 2018 -*arrest* #3

[Ciana]

Oh Dear God, a bleeding heart know it all know nothing........

As you suggested , as well as offered an apology for, your first post is agreeably confrontational as will be my response regarding this case of the "psycho 16 year old lying pedophile freak" that brutally and savagely ravished a 6 year old girl for his own pleasure and delight before snuffing out her life and then discarded her face down naked with her legs spread just minutes from her families home and afterwards blaming it all away by a fabricated story made up only to cover his arse...

Oh, and by the way, "That says more about you than him". Really, does it really, really really say more ?..." Please elaborate on that passive aggressive canned comment that really says nothing and makes no sense and really is just meant as a jab which I personally find quite laughable and really wonder if you even know what the hey you are talking about or communicating. But yes, those canned phrases are good fall backs for people that cannot think for themselves nor come up with more that a quote to try to explain their thought. >>>> Do you even know what you said or what that comment was intended to mean??

I really do not know what you know about this case, because I do not believe for a moment "Hi everyone i am an occasional lurker on this site but have read every page of the trial thread, " because if you indeed had read every " trial thread " (whatever that is) you would see that most of us have struggled with whether or not the "psycho 16 year old lying pedophile freak" accused is actually culpable but after "sleuthing", "evidence" and so on some of us have come to the conclusion that yes he is that "psycho 16 year old lying pedophile freak"......because he is ...YOU just do not get that. YOU do not like that some of us here believe 100% he is guilty. YOU ARE THE ONE ON THE JURY THAT I FEAR, because you fail to evaluate the evidence and form an independent and intelligent opinion. There is an expression I really like that I feel like sharing with you and it goes like this, "Get Over Yourself"!

 

[bronzepurple]

10:31

KEY EVENT

Trial resumes

The trial has resumed.

Judge Lord Matthews is directing jurors on their responsibilities in the case.

Both Alesha’s mum and dad are in court for the hearing.

The jury will soon be sent out to consider their verdict.

Alesha MacPhail jurors to be sent out in teenage boy's murder trial

I'm nervous Maybe the jury already have clear idea on what they think, maybe it won't take long for them to decide on a verdict amongst themselves.

 

[404_notfound]

It blows my mind that semen inside a rape victim and DNA over the bruises and wounds of a murder victim isn't concrete evidence in the eyes of some. Like i can actually remember, because i'm old, when DNA evidence began to be regularly used in rape cases and it was such a massive relief because finally there was something to stand against "it wasn't me, i wasn't there, i never met the woman" defence that SO SO MANY rapists were acquitted on. There are literally still rapes and murders from decades ago being solved today by FAMILIAL DNA, as in 40 years ago you raped and killed a teenager, and now your nephew has done a 23&me type thing and the police are at your door. Seminal DNA inside the genitals of a rape victim IS the smoking gun in those crimes, what more do people want? A video?

 

[Marlinspike]

Rape wasn’t committed? Am I missing something here?

In Scotland, only penile penetration constitutes rape.

(Sexual Offences (Scotland) Act 2009)

 

[sunshine2019]

It blows my mind that semen inside a rape victim and DNA over the bruises and wounds of a murder victim isn't concrete evidence in the eyes of some. Like i can actually remember, because i'm old, when DNA evidence began to be regularly used in rape cases and it was such a massive relief because finally there was something to stand against "it wasn't me, i wasn't there, i never met the woman" defence that SO SO MANY rapists were acquitted on. There are literally still rapes and murders from decades ago being solved today by FAMILIAL DNA, as in 40 years ago you raped and killed a teenager, and now your nephew has done a 23&me type thing and the police are at your door. Seminal DNA inside the genitals of a rape victim IS the smoking gun in those crimes, what more do people want? A video?

 

[HayLouise]

seconded, good to see you back HayLouise

Thanks Alyce!

 

[stephaniejanes]

I agree - of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don't have a problem with people saying they think he is guilty or not guilty or whatever, but there is a huge difference between having an opinion on the verdict and having what can only be described as 'enthusiasm' for condemnation.

The ripple effect of this case is substantial. At the centre of it is a poor 6 year old girl, but the effects radiate onwards and outwards - how would you feel if you were the accused's mother reading some of the things that are being said on here beyond what really needs to be said ?

Its a very sad case in all respects. It is good to discuss things but i really don't think we need this kind of opinions on steroids/condemnation stuff that has seemed apparent in the last few days.

I don't think much has been said on here beyond what has been said in court with regards to what happened to Alesha

Rape wasn’t committed? Am I missing something here?

The Sexual Offences Act 2009 in Scotland defines rape as Person A using their penis to have sex with Person B without their permission/consent. So if they can't confirm 100% that the injuries were from accused penis then they can't say that it is a given she was raped - as it could be sexual assault. It's legal lingo really - there's no doubting she was sexually assaulted it's the nuance of how.

 

[HayLouise]

10:38

Sympathy must play "no part" in deliberations - judge

The judge has told jurors that sympathy for Alesha, her family or the accused must not play a part in their decision making.

He tells them it must play “no part in your deliberations”.

He also says their duty is to return a true verdict using the evidence heard in court.

Alesha MacPhail jurors to be sent out in teenage boy's murder trial

 

[JamesK]

If you apply the theorem of 'Occam's razor' (Google it if you are not familiar) to this case, then the accused has to be the guilty party.

 

[404_notfound]

Rape wasn’t committed? Am I missing something here?

They tend to say that in a rape/murder unless it was witnessed. We know she was murdered because she is no longer alive so murder was factually committed. We don't know there was a rape because she can't tell us, it was not witnessed and rape using an implement in Scots law is "sexual assault". Rape is by penis only here. The injuries and DNA stand for themselves, he's telling the jury it's their job to interpret those and decide if a rape took place.

 

[Coconutmilk]

Do we think the jury will be out by lunchtime?

 

[Junothecat]

I agree that there is very little in the public domain to suggest other than that the accused is responsible. However, there are still some very unclear areas of the case, which may or may not be being suppressed.

As you say, we will know more when it's over.

Genuine question: if the accused is convicted, presumably he remains anonymous due to his age - but will it then become possible to report other features of the case as long as these don't reveal his identity?

And if the jury don't reach a guilty verdict, then what happens to the reporting restrictions? I don't fully understand the way in which Scots law deals either with minors or for that matter limitations on reporting.

 

[Hhp28]

Heard this phrase recently "Some people seem so open minded it's as if there brains have fallen out." I can't think what more evidence would be needed.

Of course none of the actions make sense because what happened what motivated by intentions that thankfully should seem alien to any normal human the world over.

This makes perfect sense to me.

It blows my mind that semen inside a rape victim and DNA over the bruises and wounds of a murder victim isn't concrete evidence in the eyes of some. Like i can actually remember, because i'm old, when DNA evidence began to be regularly used in rape cases and it was such a massive relief because finally there was something to stand against "it wasn't me, i wasn't there, i never met the woman" defence that SO SO MANY rapists were acquitted on. There are literally still rapes and murders from decades ago being solved today by FAMILIAL DNA, as in 40 years ago you raped and killed a teenager, and now your nephew has done a 23&me type thing and the police are at your door. Seminal DNA inside the genitals of a rape victim IS the smoking gun in those crimes, what more do people want? A video?

This is how I feel too. I struggle to understand how this could be disregarded unless you wholly believe the accused's version of events (which again, I find hard to understand)

 

[The Equaliser]

It blows my mind that semen inside a rape victim and DNA over the bruises and wounds of a murder victim isn't concrete evidence in the eyes of some. Like i can actually remember, because i'm old, when DNA evidence began to be regularly used in rape cases and it was such a massive relief because finally there was something to stand against "it wasn't me, i wasn't there, i never met the woman" defence that SO SO MANY rapists were acquitted on. There are literally still rapes and murders from decades ago being solved today by FAMILIAL DNA, as in 40 years ago you raped and killed a teenager, and now your nephew has done a 23&me type thing and the police are at your door. Seminal DNA inside the genitals of a rape victim IS the smoking gun in those crimes, what more do people want? A video?

Do you remember years ago, prior to DNA evidence, that people were unable to frame others using DNA planting?

 

[DanceCard]

ADMIN NOTE:

This post lands at random.

Members are not allowed to tell other members how to think/post. Everyone has an opinion and you may respectfully disagree, but to chastise other members for their opinion is not allowed.

While "innocent until proven guilty" is a judicial principle within the legal system, the general public is not held to that standard and are allowed to have their own speculative opinion.

Indicating that you have inside knowledge that you can't discuss is considered baiting and is not allowed.

Just bringing this post from the WS admins forward.

 

[beseeingyou]

It blows my mind that semen inside a rape victim and DNA over the bruises and wounds of a murder victim isn't concrete evidence in the eyes of some. Like i can actually remember, because i'm old, when DNA evidence began to be regularly used in rape cases and it was such a massive relief because finally there was something to stand against "it wasn't me, i wasn't there, i never met the woman" defence that SO SO MANY rapists were acquitted on. There are literally still rapes and murders from decades ago being solved today by FAMILIAL DNA, as in 40 years ago you raped and killed a teenager, and now your nephew has done a 23&me type thing and the police are at your door. Seminal DNA inside the genitals of a rape victim IS the smoking gun in those crimes, what more do people want? A video?

If you take the time to do the research you will find that the planting of semen in a variety of cases is more common than you might think. As the expert on the stand testified - it is 'not technically impossible'.

I'm not saying that it is definitely the case that this happened, but i'm open-minded given the nature, complexities, and seriously odd elements of this case (lack of DNA from either side where applicable at the abduction site, or the accused's home etc etc).

It was stated that an 'implement' could be responsible for the sheer gravity of the injuries that were sustained. This jumped out to me because if (and it's a big if), someone was trying to make this look like something it wasn't, then it would absolutely follow suit from planting semen that an implement would be used to make it look like rape.

 

[Alyce]

Do we think the jury will be out by lunchtime?

Yes, I do. The Closing arguments yesterday were Prosecution 50 minutes and Defence 1 hr 10 minutes.
I have not known a Judge to take much longer, overall, that the sum total of the QCs closings.
So I estimate Judge will be finished by lunchtime.

 

[Hhp28]

Do you remember years ago, prior to DNA evidence, that people were unable to frame others using DNA planting?

It's a really good point. I wonder though, what's more likely? Someone being set up or the DNA being there legitimately?

In this particular case I guess If there was evidence TM was crafty and decietful enough to be capable of orchestrating that we would have heard of it. Just my thoughts on that but you make a really good point.

 

[beseeingyou]

Do you remember years ago, prior to DNA evidence, that people were unable to frame others using DNA planting?

That's actually a very good point.

 

[The Equaliser]

It's a really good point. I wonder though, what's more likely? Someone being set up or the DNA being there legitimately?

In this particular case I guess If there was evidence TM was crafty and decietful enough to be capable of orchestrating that we would have heard of it. Just my thoughts on that but you make a really good point.

Thanks Hhp28, I don't disagree.