UK - Alesha MacPhail, 6, raped & murdered, Ardbeg, Isle of Bute, Scotland, 2 Jul 2018 -teen arrested

[Weeobanite]

Hoping this post is within TOS rules.

If one was to speculate about motive and of course in your opinion indicated with a " imo ", what might be the reason for the murder, did it happen accidentally and how?

Personally, I would want to know in case I had little girls who may have been in contact with him.

Me too! Maybe it was an accident, but I don’t think so! She was reported missing at 6:30am.. in the first reports it said that her death was being treated as unexplained.. to me that says there was no initial signs of unjury! I’m wondering what kind of accident it could be?

 

[Amonet]

That is so interesting to me. He can't drive but is basically a legal adult in every other sense? How strange! In the US you can drive before everything else!
<snipped for brevity>

Do these things make more sense in the US, then? I just assumed the minimum ages for various things would be all over the place in most countries...

You can probably get a list online for the various age minimums, but here are a few things. They've come down over the years, fifty years ago most of these would have been 21.

16 for sex and marriage
17 driving
18 to vote in a general election
18 to drink alcohol in a pub

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Personally, I would want to know in case I had little girls who may have been in contact with him.

I think he might end up getting named by authorities. I think the Bulger case was the one which (ironically) gave minor offenders more privacy rights but there have been recent cases where young killers have been officially named. Even if he's not, everyone on that island will know, anyone who knows him will know, half the users following the case on Twitter, FB and even on here know. Pretty sure his name will continue to be leaked until there's no point hiding it.

 

[Weeobanite]

And yes, if you lived on the Isle of Bute, you would know who it is. But does the whole world need to know? I think if there is to be a proper investigation (and a trial that has not been compromised) the rest of us can be curious, outraged and dismayed...but we don't need to know.

How could it be compromised? I don’t understand what could change the evidence they have to charge him in the first place?

 

[Amonet]

Hoping this post is within TOS rules.

If one was to speculate about motive and of course in your opinion indicated with a " imo ", what might be the reason for the murder, did it happen accidentally and how?

IMHO...maybe the death happened in the commission of another crime? I doubt it could be entirely accidental.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Hoping this post is within TOS rules.

If one was to speculate about motive and of course in your opinion indicated with a " imo ", what might be the reason for the murder, did it happen accidentally and how?

IMHO...maybe the death happened in the commission of another crime? I doubt it could be entirely accidental.

I wonder if drugs are involved somewhere along the line. Or revenge. Or both. Just my opinion.

 

[Amonet]

Personally, I would want to know in case I had little girls who may have been in contact with him.

In general, if there are any sex crimes suspected, then police would try to get names of friends/acquaintances who have children and contact them and talk to them. They don't need to put the person's name in the media to do that.

When I was about 4 a policewoman turned up at my house for exactly that reason...thank God I hadn't been touched, but I know the man went to prison, and as an adult I can put 2+2 together.

 

[Weeobanite]

<modsnipped quoted post>
Thanks he has been charged and if the locals of a tiny community weren’t surprised it was him then that’s enough for me! The police don’t charge people in connection with the murder of a child without evidence! He’s guilty.. you wait for the verdict before you judge but I’m happy to have my opinion now! That’s what this site is for after all!

 

[Harmony 2]

admin note:

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[always reading]

admin note:

This case is heart breaking and emotions are running high. Our terms of service mandates that we post in a civil and respectful manner. Therefore, do not address other members in a rude or personalized manner.

For the new members, please be aware that we cannot discuss sending or receiving private messages (conversations) on the open board.

Be careful with broken quotes because they can get very complicated for a moderator to repair. Most importantly, discussion on facebook remains there. As Sillybilly explained earlier you can bring attention to a comment but you may not expand or discuss it here.

Thread is now open...

Great!

 

[Armchair_Defective]

What kind of justice do you think outing a minor will entail? The ostracizing of his family and kin...the pursuing of his teachers, friends, babysitters...etc

He is in custody.
If the case is as open and shut as everybody seems to think it is, then he is not going anywhere. And if others need the big stick of the law, they'll be getting it...the pitchforks and flaming torches don't help anyone.
Why does it help for his whole community to be terrorized by media and SM.
We still believe in a judicial process here at Websleuths, don't we?

I understand this point of view and I always thought it wasn't necessarily a child's fault if they were messed up enough to kill another, they could have been abused themselves, so I have always agreed with it.

...but with this case he is 16. Maybe the public deserves to know how this teenager got this way? Surely by hiding his identity any social services/ authorities can absolve themselves of responsibility if he or his family were known to them? If he is a child should his family be assessed in how they let him get this way? Again if he is anonymous they are absolved of any responsibility. This is all debatable I know. Maybe the age of anonymity should be lower these days as 'children' know a lot ( or should) by age 16?

 

[eucalyptuz]

I understand this point of view and I always thought it wasn't necessarily a child's fault if they were messed up enough to kill another, they could have been abused themselves, so I have always agreed with it.

...but with this case he is 16. Maybe the public deserves to know how this teenager got this way? Surely by hiding his identity any social services/ authorities can absolve themselves of responsibility if he or his family were known to them? If he is a child should his family be assessed in how they let him get this way? Again if he is anonymous they are absolved of any responsibility. This is all debatable I know. Maybe the age of anonymity should be lower these days as 'children' know a lot ( or should) by age 16?

bbm...
I agree with your point about young offenders often being victims themselves, but I don’t really think it’s the public that should be assessing the family’s contribution to a perpetrator’s state. The police have already stated they are working with different agencies so if there is a file on the offender the right people have it in hand. And while the system probably has plenty of holes in it, there will be investigations: backgrounds and histories will be examined, other minors protected if needed. There will be scrutiny...maybe just not public scrutiny (and eye-for-an-eye justice).
ETA: not every bad egg comes from a bad nest...the most screwed-up person I know has wonderful parents and siblings...sometimes there is no peripheral blame to be laid.

 

[Ironside]

<modsnipped quoted post>
Thanks he has been charged and if the locals of a tiny community weren’t surprised it was him then that’s enough for me! The police don’t charge people in connection with the murder of a child without evidence! He’s guilty.. you wait for the verdict before you judge but I’m happy to have my opinion now! That’s what this site is for after all!

There might not be a trial if he pleads guilty to the charge, it would just end up with a sentence being given. Not as satisfying for the bringg back hanging mob but it would save the family a lot of distress.

 

[Hedgehog]

Are the laws in Scotland strict enough to keep the killer of Alesha (if convicted) behind bars until he's an old man ?
Or will he "do some time"....and be released with a new identity and $$ to start a 'new life' ?

That is exactly what will happen, in Britain he will NOT be locked up until he is old. And he will almost certainly get a new name.
If he does get a new name (which it's almost certain he will) with that will come police protection which will costs 100s of thousands each year. He will be guaranteed to receive social welfare payments & he will not have to jump through hoops (prove he is looking for work) that normal people do. He will literally never have to work again. BUT if he chooses to he will be allowed to work in places where families go to. No one will be warned, just as happened with one of the Bulger killers

What kind of justice do you think outing a minor will entail? The ostracizing of his family and kin...the pursuing of his teachers, friends, babysitters...etc

He is in custody.
If the case is as open and shut as everybody seems to think it is, then he is not going anywhere. And if others need the big stick of the law, they'll be getting it...the pitchforks and flaming torches don't help anyone.
Why does it help for his whole community to be terrorized by media and SM.
We still believe in a judicial process here at Websleuths, don't we?

I agree with you with one small caveat if they don't name him ( the courts/police) now. He will be a risk when he is released under a new name & we will not be able to protect our children

 

[Armchair_Defective]

bbm...
I agree with your point about young offenders often being victims themselves, but I don’t really think it’s the public that should be assessing the family’s contribution to a perpetrator’s state. The police have already stated they are working with different agencies so if there is a file on the offender the right people have it in hand. And while the system probably has plenty of holes in it, there will be investigations: backgrounds and histories will be examined, other minors protected if needed. There will be scrutiny...maybe just not public scrutiny (and eye-for-an-eye justice).
ETA: not every bad egg comes from a bad nest...the most screwed-up person I know has wonderful parents and siblings...sometimes there is no peripheral blame to be laid.

I get what you're saying but I'm somewhat sceptical that parental involvement has nothing to do with these things, at least in most cases and that's a societal problem for us all to learn from. I'm not a fan of mindless finger pointing and pitchforking either. Everything being behind closed doors can let authorities get away with things, we will no doubt heart the old 'lessons have been learned' line that is trotted out after serious mistakes have been made.

 

[Sarahlou]

I think they will eventually name him, like they did with that young couple who killed the the female of the couple's mother and sister.

Awful case. Poor Alesha

 

[Deviskan]

I think people are being incredibly quick to presume the POI intentionally meant to 'murder' the poor girl...I think there's quite a lot more to come out about this.

As others have noted, it took quite a bit of time for police to determine this was a case of 'murder', so it must not have been noticeable/immediately identifiable (which might suggest potentially poisoned in some way?).

I've missed all of the posts people have seen on FB naming the POI, and local residents saying they're not surprised etc...suggesting the POI is of poor character (also noting the Police were speaking to 'other' agencies...which people have presumed meant Social Services).

A poster above also mentioned drugs, something which is also in the back of my mind regarding this one (with regards to poisoning).

Also, the fact that the POI is a friend of the fathers girlfriend (who also looks quite young)...could this potentially be a case of jealousy in that respect (i.e. the POI wanted to be more than friends, and this is an act of jealous revenge...but that murder wasn't intended, but whatever the POI did went wrong and they have subsequently panicked)?

In the end, all of the above is inconsequential really...the main point is that a poor wee girl has lost her life before it's really even started.

 

[Zazie]

The death by car theory posted here seems possible to me (have scrolled back and unable to find who posted it - sorry for not acknowledging.) She is sleepwalking, crosses road to get to beach, gets hit by kid returning home after driving illegally in the middle of the night, alone or with buddies. Even possible this could happen at slow speed as he is parking up (no noisy skid). He panics, hides the body to make it look like abduction. No obvious external injuries visible (eg maybe a crush injury). Gets round the issue of his having to extract her from bedroom without waking house etc. Might explain call for dashcam footage from Ardbeg. Doesn't explain how such an incident could happen so quietly in street, and not wake anyone. Police also implied her death was either at home or in forest.

 

[Edinlass]

Will we get to hear the charges today I wonder?

 

[evans242]

The death by car theory posted here seems possible to me (have scrolled back and unable to find who posted it - sorry for not acknowledging.) She is sleepwalking, crosses road to get to beach, gets hit by kid returning home after driving illegally in the middle of the night, alone or with buddies. Even possible this could happen at slow speed as he is parking up (no noisy skid). He panics, hides the body to make it look like abduction. No obvious external injuries visible (eg maybe a crush injury). Gets round the issue of his having to extract her from bedroom without waking house etc. Might explain call for dashcam footage from Ardbeg. Doesn't explain how such an incident could happen so quietly in street, and not wake anyone. Police also implied her death was either at home or in forest.