UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[Inspector Evans]

I very much doubt he would've been lured at Kings Cross. 15+ years beforehand it was a dodgy place, but by 2007 it was nothing like the Kings Cross of old. Yes, there was still a bit of seediness, but this wasn't so much round the actual station. With the Eurostar going from next door, in a post-9/11 world Kings Cross is, and was, heavily policed and usually by armed officers. If you loiter too long you're quickly noticed. Put on top of that the abundance of CCTV, and that it was the middle of the day and you see that Kings Cross wasn't the hunting ground of predators anymore.

I agree. Just that people seem to think from him looking around when he exits XC he's seemingly looking for someone but it is a very natural thing to move your head when you come out of a station after a few hours on a train just to breath in the air (not great in that part of the World!) or just immerse yourself in the surrounding environment.

I think it's far more likely he was having a stroll round London then a bite to eat and probably happily passing the time. The afternoon/evening of the day holds the key to the case but there just isn't anything realistically to go on.

I assume the CCTV was looked at around XC in the hours and days after just to see if he returned as you can get trains from there to endless places other than Doncaster.

 

[Inspector Evans]

Only breakthrough imo would be if they ever found the PSP he was seen playing on the train down. Who knows if that got discarded, quickly put on the black market or is still lying in a house somewhere. Very popular in 2007 but a few years later became obsolete with the rise of the Iphone.

Was reading in the paper the other day of a cold case that got solved due to finding a discarded mobile in the Thames so a very long shot but perhaps that is something that could've been dumped in the nearby canal around XC?

 

[TheRockingRev]

Used to go in the Intrepid Fox when I lived in London (2002-03). Was it still going in 2007? Last I heard it was an upmarket burger restaurant

Yep - the one you're talking about was the original in Wardour Street. As you rightly said, it became a Byron Burger (now a Brazillian restaurant)
Later on it moved up to just off TCR.

 

[TheRockingRev]

I agree. Just that people seem to think from him looking around when he exits XC he's seemingly looking for someone but it is a very natural thing to move your head when you come out of a station after a few hours on a train just to breath in the air (not great in that part of the World!) or just immerse yourself in the surrounding environment.

I think it's far more likely he was having a stroll round London then a bite to eat and probably happily passing the time. The afternoon/evening of the day holds the key to the case but there just isn't anything realistically to go on.

I assume the CCTV was looked at around XC in the hours and days after just to see if he returned as you can get trains from there to endless places other than Doncaster.

Couldn't agree more. You also tend to look around when coming out of a station just to get your bearings. I think the CCTV is of a young lad just taking in his surroundings before heading on his travels.

You are so right - it is that afternoon/evening which is the key to all this.

Unfortunately not, in fact the small bit of footage of him arriving took quite a while to find.

 

[TheRockingRev]

Only breakthrough imo would be if they ever found the PSP he was seen playing on the train down. Who knows if that got discarded, quickly put on the black market or is still lying in a house somewhere. Very popular in 2007 but a few years later became obsolete with the rise of the Iphone.

I could imagine it being destroyed with his other belongings if someone took him. Or possibly sold. There were a lot of Cash Converter type stores, and even CeX stores in 2007. It could be a line of enquiry if anyone bought a second-hand one after 2007.

Was reading in the paper the other day of a cold case that got solved due to finding a discarded mobile in the Thames so a very long shot but perhaps that is something that could've been dumped in the nearby canal around XC?

 

[Sjöberg]

I think it's far more likely he was having a stroll round London then a bite to eat and probably happily passing the time. The afternoon/evening of the day holds the key to the case but there just isn't anything realistically to go on.

I assume the CCTV was looked at around XC in the hours and days after just to see if he returned as you can get trains from there to endless places other than Doncaster.

For now, I heavily lean towards the idea that he travelled to London because of someone.
The logical next step would be, that the person picked him up, most likely waiting in a car at a pre-arranged spot (or even just meeting him on foot - but that would increase the risk of being spotted together).
* But if we consider the Pizza Hut sighting credible, then we have the interesting question, that if Andrew travelled to meet someone, why was he still alone and 4km away from Kings Cross?
For example, how often did the trains depart from Doncaster back in the day? If he had a reason to be at some place in London by X o'clock, could he have taken the 9:35-11:20 train just because the next train would be too late? And what could that reason be?
(But truth be told, there were many young teen boys with longer hair and dressed in black back in 2007. And a lot of the crowd wearing metal band T-shirts was what americans would call nerds, with all the behaviours that came with it, so while it is a good sighting, it might be wishful thinking from the familys part.)
* And I've also been thinking, was something going on the night before? What and how? I feel like you are not going to show some generic "din't sleep well" irritation in the morning, if you are planning for a solo secret sigtseeing trip to London that you want to hide from family. But if you are upset because of someone else, especially as a teen, sure it might show. Can't put my finger on it and we only have the mothers comment about Andrews behaviour when waking up, but I feel like something could have happened the night before that was connected to the trip in some way.

 

[davidt]

For now, I heavily lean towards the idea that he travelled to London because of someone.
The logical next step would be, that the person picked him up, most likely waiting in a car at a pre-arranged spot (or even just meeting him on foot - but that would increase the risk of being spotted together).
* But if we consider the Pizza Hut sighting credible, then we have the interesting question, that if Andrew travelled to meet someone, why was he still alone and 4km away from Kings Cross?
For example, how often did the trains depart from Doncaster back in the day? If he had a reason to be at some place in London by X o'clock, could he have taken the 9:35-11:20 train just because the next train would be too late? And what could that reason be?
(But truth be told, there were many young teen boys with longer hair and dressed in black back in 2007. And a lot of the crowd wearing metal band T-shirts was what americans would call nerds, with all the behaviours that came with it, so while it is a good sighting, it might be wishful thinking from the familys part.)
* And I've also been thinking, was something going on the night before? What and how? I feel like you are not going to show some generic "din't sleep well" irritation in the morning, if you are planning for a solo secret sigtseeing trip to London that you want to hide from family. But if you are upset because of someone else, especially as a teen, sure it might show. Can't put my finger on it and we only have the mothers comment about Andrews behaviour when waking up, but I feel like something could have happened the night before that was connected to the trip in some way.

Is there a full version of what the waitress saw anywhere. In particular was there any mention of seeing an ear deformity? I know Andrew was wearing his hair longer but if the waitress did mention anything it massively increases the chances of it being Andrew.

 

[Aluev]

For now, I heavily lean towards the idea that he travelled to London because of someone.
The logical next step would be, that the person picked him up, most likely waiting in a car at a pre-arranged spot (or even just meeting him on foot - but that would increase the risk of being spotted together).
* But if we consider the Pizza Hut sighting credible, then we have the interesting question, that if Andrew travelled to meet someone, why was he still alone and 4km away from Kings Cross?
For example, how often did the trains depart from Doncaster back in the day? If he had a reason to be at some place in London by X o'clock, could he have taken the 9:35-11:20 train just because the next train would be too late? And what could that reason be?

He could be meeting someone in London later in the day so he had some free time to kill. Andrew would still need to catch the morning train to London to avoid being seen hanging around & skipping school in Doncaster.

 

[dotr]

Only breakthrough imo would be if they ever found the PSP he was seen playing on the train down. Who knows if that got discarded, quickly put on the black market or is still lying in a house somewhere. Very popular in 2007 but a few years later became obsolete with the rise of the Iphone.

Was reading in the paper the other day of a cold case that got solved due to finding a discarded mobile in the Thames so a very long shot but perhaps that is something that could've been dumped in the nearby canal around XC?

Intriguing, had to look it up! This one?
25 March 2025

How an iPad under the Thames solved museum thieves' murder plot

Police were able to use the iPad as key evidence in a trial of three men who plotted to murder a cage fighter.

www.bbc.com

 

[ekardh]

It would have to be extremely bad odds for Andrew to bunk off in London for the day and meet with foul play, notwithstanding the fact his body has never been found.

Also, if Andrew just wanted to cut loose and go to London for the day, why not do it at the weekend? Why do it on a school day when his absence would've been noted and his parents alerted? Also, there would've been more going on at the weekend for him to attend.

I don't know... It seems to me that this series of events was orchestrated by someone else. If the groomer was a family man, he might not have been able to slip away at the weekend to meet Andrew, therefore he set it up for the Friday. He also could have been the one who devised the plan for Andrew to come home and put his school uniform in the washer. This may have been a trick that the groomer once used when he was a kid bunking off school and he imparted it to Andrew as part of the diversion.

 

[davidt]

It would have to be extremely bad odds for Andrew to bunk off in London for the day and meet with foul play, notwithstanding the fact his body has never been found.

Also, if Andrew just wanted to cut loose and go to London for the day, why not do it at the weekend? Why do it on a school day when his absence would've been noted and his parents alerted? Also, there would've been more going on at the weekend for him to attend.

I don't know... It seems to me that this series of events was orchestrated by someone else. If the groomer was a family man, he might not have been able to slip away at the weekend to meet Andrew, therefore he set it up for the Friday. He also could have been the one who devised the plan for Andrew to come home and put his school uniform in the washer. This may have been a trick that the groomer once used when he was a kid bunking off school and he imparted it to Andrew as part of the diversion.

It's definitely hard to get your head around. I think we do need to consider whether school may have been the problem. He was said to be grumpy that morning and in some reports grumpy in the days before as well. Could it be avoiding school was his main motivation?

 

[ekardh]

It's definitely hard to get your head around. I think we do need to consider whether school may have been the problem. He was said to be grumpy that morning and in some reports grumpy in the days before as well. Could it be avoiding school was his main motivation?

If Andrew was being bullied or singled out, that would make him even more susceptible to a groomer imo. Of course, there are levels to bullying, and we don't know if it had any bearing on his disappearance.

The bullying angle has been used to support the theory that Andrew travelled to London to commit suicide. This isn't a theory that I personally subscribe to, as I doubt a suicide in Central London would've gone unwitnessed, and there's no evidence that Andrew was suicidal, but nothing can be ruled out.

Going back to the significance of Friday, many businesses finish early on Fridays. It could be that the groomer told Andrew to make his own way down to London, kill some time, then he would meet him later. Although I am unsure on how Andrew kept in contact during the trip when he wasn't using a mobile phone and his PSP never connected to the internet. I also wonder if the groomer was based in London or lived closer to Doncaster and wanted to put some distance between himself and home?

 

[TheRockingRev]

If Andrew was being bullied or singled out, that would make him even more susceptible to a groomer imo. Of course, there are levels to bullying, and we don't know if it had any bearing on his disappearance.

The bullying angle has been used to support the theory that Andrew travelled to London to commit suicide. This isn't a theory that I personally subscribe to, as I doubt a suicide in Central London would've gone unwitnessed, and there's no evidence that Andrew was suicidal, but nothing can be ruled out.

Going back to the significance of Friday, many businesses finish early on Fridays. It could be that the groomer told Andrew to make his own way down to London, kill some time, then he would meet him later. Although I am unsure on how Andrew kept in contact during the trip when he wasn't using a mobile phone and his PSP never connected to the internet. I also wonder if the groomer was based in London or lived closer to Doncaster and wanted to put some distance between himself and home?

I'm not sure where you're based, but not that many businesses finish early in the UK. It could have been someone working a shift pattern though. I agree that London could be about putting some distance between them and the area they lived in - London may have been the choice because a). there is more to see and do that would entice Andrew and b). it was somewhere Andrew knew so may feel comfortable.

In terms of meeting up, we all used to do it and I wonder how we managed - but you would say a time and a place and then be there. And then you waited and hoped that the person turned up!

 

[TheRockingRev]

Is there a full version of what the waitress saw anywhere. In particular was there any mention of seeing an ear deformity? I know Andrew was wearing his hair longer but if the waitress did mention anything it massively increases the chances of it being Andrew.

I've never been able to find one - whether this is because he said certain things that the family said made it more certain it was Andrew, and they don't want to reveal these in case it leads to people mimicking them for trolling purposes.
But quite surprised that more hasn't been said though.

 

[TheRockingRev]

(But truth be told, there were many young teen boys with longer hair and dressed in black back in 2007. And a lot of the crowd wearing metal band T-shirts was what americans would call nerds, with all the behaviours that came with it, so while it is a good sighting, it might be wishful thinking from the familys part.)

There were, but London in school term time, outside of the main tourism season too, wouldn't have seen that many teenage boys, especially his age, in central London at that time. Especially one who looked so young.

 

[ekardh]

I'm not sure where you're based, but not that many businesses finish early in the UK.

I'm born and bred in the UK. It depends on the industry, but early finish Fridays are not unheard of, especially in the summer months.

 

[BethAnn777]

On the day Andrew went missing, would schools in London have been out? I’m sure it was looked into at the time, but if there was no school that would make me think he went to meet someone around his age who was out of school for the day.

 

[TheRockingRev]

On the day Andrew went missing, would schools in London have been out? I’m sure it was looked into at the time, but if there was no school that would make me think he went to meet someone around his age who was out of school for the day.

The schools were in then, just back from the Summer holidays.

 

[Cartie]

On the day Andrew went missing, would schools in London have been out? I’m sure it was looked into at the time, but if there was no school that would make me think he went to meet someone around his age who was out of school for the day.

I did look into that as I wondered the same thing, but searches of several schools said no. I've attached one example

 

[Salamandac]

Yep - the one you're talking about was the original in Wardour Street. As you rightly said, it became a Byron Burger (now a Brazillian restaurant)
Later on it moved up to just off TCR.

Do you have the address so I can see it on Maps?