UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[rvlvr]

We should remember that Andrew looked young/small for his age and imo would have stood out alone. Especially during a school day. I think this makes opportunistic foul play more of a possibility

Andrew definitely looks young in the photos that usually accompany articles about him, like this one and this one, but how recent to his disappearance are they? A baby faced Andrew alone on a train to London or in a Pizza Hut restaurant on a Friday during term time would definitely stand out, I think.

But in the CCTV images, particularly the shots of Andrew exiting the station, I think his face looks less round and his bone structure appears more obvious, which happens to teenage boys during puberty and probably happened to me around Andrew’s age, and it happened over a short period of time too. (And with that came changes in my behaviour.)

But while the CCTV images look quite clear, perhaps they don’t really accurately capture Andrew’s appearance?

Do we know how long before he disappeared that the widely shared photos of Andrew were taken?

 

[warp3dwing]

Andrew definitely looks young in the photos that usually accompany articles about him, like this one and this one, but how recent to his disappearance are they? A baby faced Andrew alone on a train to London or in a Pizza Hut restaurant on a Friday during term time would definitely stand out, I think.

But in the CCTV images, particularly the shots of Andrew exiting the station, I think his face looks less round and his bone structure appears more obvious, which happens to teenage boys during puberty and probably happened to me around Andrew’s age, and it happened over a short period of time too. (And with that came changes in my behaviour.)

But while the CCTV images look quite clear, perhaps they don’t really accurately capture Andrew’s appearance?

Do we know how long before he disappeared that the widely shared photos of Andrew were taken?

I agree that Andrew looks a bit more mature in the CCTV images.

I don’t really see why anyone would have paid particular attention to Andrew. Sure, he should have been in school, but no stranger would know what he was up to.

I’m assuming London is like here in NYC in the sense that we tend to mind our own business. There are kids everywhere here, some local, some tourists. What they’re doing, I have no idea!

 

[Lucy6226]

It was widely reported at the time that Andrew was often mistaken for being around 12.

'Small for his age and slim, he is 14 but looks younger, perhaps 12. He is wearing a black T-shirt and jeans and has a black canvas satchel slung over his shoulder.

He has left behind a secure home, a loving family and a glittering array of school prizes. Ahead is London, that great, sprawling, teeming, terrifying city with all its allure and danger. He looks so young, so vulnerable'

Source linked above October 27 2007

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

If Andrew was small in stature and looked young and was also emotionally vulnerable or lonely then all that leans into him being groomed and lured by a predatory abuser IMO.

Someone he already knew and very much trusted -or- someone he was excited to go and meet and was willing to be covert about.

We have seen in mainstream media how certain celebrities and TV presenters who used to be household names go about luring and exploiting and abusing young people. It's heartbreaking

 

[rvlvr]

It was widely reported at the time that Andrew was often mistaken for being around 12.

'Small for his age and slim, he is 14 but looks younger, perhaps 12. He is wearing a black T-shirt and jeans and has a black canvas satchel slung over his shoulder.

He has left behind a secure home, a loving family and a glittering array of school prizes. Ahead is London, that great, sprawling, teeming, terrifying city with all its allure and danger. He looks so young, so vulnerable'

Source linked above October 27 2007

In many ways I suppose Andrew was ‘young for his age’, in that he’d only a couple of months prior had his 14th birthday? Whereas there very likely would’ve been kids in his school year with September birthdays who’d already turned 15 when he disappeared.

I definitely agree he looks incredibly young in the photos of him shared by his family but if those photos were any more than, say, six months old I’m not sure how accurately they reflect what Andrew looked like in September 2007. I think in the CCTV images he looks about right for a lad of his age, but in the end maybe it doesn’t matter.

 

[lebvidox]

I don't buy into the 'small for his age' story. As we can see here, he was taller than his older sister and not that much shorter than his father, and his face in this picture - and also in the King's Cross footage - reads way more of a mature teenager than the most childlike pics we saw of him.

 

[davidt]

I don't buy into the 'small for his age' story. As we can see here, he was taller than his older sister and not that much shorter than his father, and his face in this picture - and also in the King's Cross footage - reads way more of a mature teenager than the most childlike pics we saw of him.

They say the camera doesn't lie, but it does. In real life people often appear to look a lot different to their photos. So, yes we do need to be careful making any assumptions on specific pictures.

 

[Inspector Evans]

I agree that Andrew looks a bit more mature in the CCTV images.

I don’t really see why anyone would have paid particular attention to Andrew. Sure, he should have been in school, but no stranger would know what he was up to.

I’m assuming London is like here in NYC in the sense that we tend to mind our own business. There are kids everywhere here, some local, some tourists. What they’re doing, I have no idea!

Yep during the day and afternoon it is hustle and bustle, commuters, tourists. Same at 5-7pm with endless people migrating to the 4-5 major train stations dotted around the central part. Friday in that era with little WFH culture would've been incredible congestion at peak times.

When I've been in London I'm not worried about being snatched off the street by randoms around 6pm, I'm more concerned about getting back to Euston on time to get the 6.46pm out of the capital!

In middle of September 2007 it would've got dark around 7pm. If Andrew was still in London at that point that is when danger could've occurred especially if he gravitated away from the central parts.

That is the time of a day when a 14 year old with no adult company would've looked vulnerable to anyone walking by with malicious intentions.

Maybe he went up to a few people and asked where was the best place to stay for the night on a limited budget and someone offered him a place for the night?

The only certainty about this case is he got off the train at XC and then didn't get back on a train later that day at the same place as that is one area of CCTV they did have so presume they combed over the hours after to determine if he came back.

 

[shindigdig]

It was widely reported at the time that Andrew was often mistaken for being around 12.

'Small for his age and slim, he is 14 but looks younger, perhaps 12. He is wearing a black T-shirt and jeans and has a black canvas satchel slung over his shoulder.

He has left behind a secure home, a loving family and a glittering array of school prizes. Ahead is London, that great, sprawling, teeming, terrifying city with all its allure and danger. He looks so young, so vulnerable'

Source linked above October 27 2007

I only recently saw the attached photo of Andrew in full. Before I had only ever seen the same photo, but cropped from the bust up.

I can see that Andrew looks young, but I wouldn't say he looks necessarily too small. Not childishly small at least. He at most looks 2-3 inches shorter than his dad.

This photo genuinely changed my perspective on Andrew from a child, to a young adult.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I don't buy into the 'small for his age' story. As we can see here, he was taller than his older sister and not that much shorter than his father, and his face in this picture - and also in the King's Cross footage - reads way more of a mature teenager than the most childlike pics we saw of him.

IMO he's got a real youthful baby face and 'the Milky Bar kid' look that makes him look young and innocent.

JMO

 

[lebvidox]

IMO he's got a real youthful baby face and 'the Milky Bar kid' look that makes him look young and innocent.

JMO

He just looks like a pre-pubescent kid in the most 'famous' headshots and the last recorded image of him is way more teenage-like. It could just be that the parents were asked for pictures and that's what they had (back when digital pics were not as common) to feature his face. One year in this stage of life makes a huge difference.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

He just looks like a pre-pubescent kid in the most 'famous' headshots and the last recorded image of him is way more teenage-like. It could just be that the parents were asked for pictures and that's what they had (back when digital pics were not as common) to feature his face. One year in this stage of life makes a huge difference.

The thing is, if he was communicating remotely with a predator who had asked to see pictures of him... what did *they* think he looked like ? Would they have seen him on a webcam? I think it's fair to say that certain type of predatory abuser likes baby faced younger looking boys.

Would he have emailed a digital image? We did have cameras on our phones back then but I think they wouldn't livestream so much as you'd be able to text or email a photo.

 

[rvlvr]

He just looks like a pre-pubescent kid in the most 'famous' headshots and the last recorded image of him is way more teenage-like. It could just be that the parents were asked for pictures and that's what they had (back when digital pics were not as common) to feature his face. One year in this stage of life makes a huge difference.

Yeah, the photos could’ve been from the previous summer or even perhaps Easter 2007, it wasn’t uncommon in my experience to come back to school in the September after the summer holiday and see kids in your year that had radically transformed in appearance.

The photo that @shindigdig shared, it looks to me like it could’ve been taken at Whitby Abbey? We know the family had previously been there on holiday (possibly more than once?) but I’ve not read anything that says they went there during the summer of 2007? If it’s from 2006 then obviously he’d have grown further since then, and his facial features would’ve changed noticeably in that time too.

 

[Plod]

I don't know if I think it's him. I guess I can see the possibility but I think it's too difficult to say I see any resemblence. I'd be interested in what the family has to say about the photo.

which person are you looking at please - can you describe where he is in the picture?

 

[Inspector Evans]

The thing is, if he was communicating remotely with a predator who had asked to see pictures of him... what did *they* think he looked like ? Would they have seen him on a webcam? I think it's fair to say that certain type of predatory abuser likes baby faced younger looking boys.

Would he have emailed a digital image? We did have cameras on our phones back then but I think they wouldn't livestream so much as you'd be able to text or email a photo.

There would surely have been a digital trace examing his home computer. I think for the predator/grooming scenario it would've been meeting them face-to-face at some point at church or that gifted summer camp at Lancaster university the previous summer.

Interested to know more about that actually. I assume Andrew stayed in the halls if it was for a week or two, who else was in his block and did he talk to anyone after the day's sessions ended?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

There would surely have been a digital trace examing his home computer. I think for the predator/grooming scenario it would've been meeting them face-to-face at some point at church or that gifted summer camp at Lancaster university the previous summer.

Interested to know more about that actually. I assume Andrew stayed in the halls if it was for a week or two, who else was in his block and did he talk to anyone after the day's sessions ended?

Good points re meeting someone at the camp.

Altho I'm not sure tracing things was quite as easy to do in the old days of dial up internet and analogue systems that were still in place in 2007.

Not sure why people are so adamant that Andrew didn't have devices or access though. I got my first mobile phone in 1997 and had a desktop computer with dial up modem at home. A lot of people did. For those who didn't, there were 'internet cafes' and computer use at the libraries, at schools and colleges. Most internet services had a messenger system ie 'aol messenger' whereby once you'd made an email address using their service, messages could ping from one user to another and these could be from total strangers, sometimes based on keywords in a profile or just random shots in the dark starting with A/S/L (age sex location). Also there was a plethora of weird and wonderful discussion forums and stuff that would likely be considered the dark web now as I'm not sure there was any scrutiny or tracking or monitoring of online traffic flow as there is these days.

By 2007 everyone had phones. Gaming devices could chat online. Gaming had turned into something huge. MySpace had been going a few years, there were tons of forums for popular culture, music, and fans - even 'fan fiction' became a huge thing. It would defy belief that Andrew wasn't online one way or another IMO.

 

[lebvidox]

The thing is, if he was communicating remotely with a predator who had asked to see pictures of him... what did *they* think he looked like ? Would they have seen him on a webcam? I think it's fair to say that certain type of predatory abuser likes baby faced younger looking boys.

Would he have emailed a digital image? We did have cameras on our phones back then but I think they wouldn't livestream so much as you'd be able to text or email a photo.

That's why I'm inclined to believe this potential predator did not have a strictly online relationship with this boy.

 

[VelvetDiamante]

The admin of the Facebook group reposted this anecdote from 2010 yesterday, from someone who met him at the summer camp:

 

[warp3dwing]

The admin of the Facebook group reposted this anecdote from 2010 yesterday, from someone who met him at the summer camp:
View attachment 610847
View attachment 610848

Very interesting, thank you.

Have you come across any other old posts about Andrew that might have gone under the radar or been forgotten about in the last almost twenty-odd years?

I've also been wondering about the 11 alleged Brighton sightings. I'm highly skeptical about eyewitness accounts, but I've never come across any details on the Brighton reports.

 

[VelvetDiamante]

Very interesting, thank you.

Have you come across any other old posts about Andrew that might have gone under the radar or been forgotten about in the last almost twenty-odd years?

I've also been wondering about the 11 alleged Brighton sightings. I'm highly skeptical about eyewitness accounts, but I've never come across any details on the Brighton reports.

- There was one from a woman who said her son used to play video games with Andrew at school in the morning, before lessons started.
- Someone who said they were in a competitive maths team with Andrew, and they said he was the leader of the group and the others often relied on him for the answers.
- A person who said they were at school with Andrew and said he casually swore in front of the teacher once when he was re-telling a story about something his dad did.