UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[ChatteringBirds]

I an recall somewhere a former schoolmate was quoted as saying Andrew had cut himself from some of his former friends.

I'm curious about that, because teens don't usually just start avoiding friends, unless they stop feeling good about the friendships for some reason.

I wonder what those friends would say now, in retrospect, regarding why they thought he had distanced himself. Do they look back and think he was going through depression, bullying, or something else?

It can't just be me who thinks back to some kids in high school and sees their situations very differently now than back in the day?

 

[davidt]

I'm curious about that, because teens don't usually just start avoiding friends, unless they stop feeling good about the friendships for some reason.

I wonder what those friends would say now, in retrospect, regarding why they thought he had distanced himself. Do they look back and think he was going through depression, bullying, or something else?

It can't just be me who thinks back to some kids in high school and sees their situations very differently now than back in the day?

Can't remember quite where I read it but I think it was a female friend who said it. She seemed to suggest he had narrowed his circle of friends.

 

[KathPlumber]

I think the original arrests were in relation to human trafficking. At the time they seized numerous devices which they said would take some time to analyse. Next thing you hear is that they've been released without charge. I remain puzzled why the police went so public linking tbe arrests to Andrew when they could have waited and worked quietly in tbe background. I mean there must have been something to prompt them to do this. They must receive lots of tips and so on and wouldn't go public without good reason you'd think.

Yeah I totally agree and if you search h this thread you’ll see plenty of speculation on this.
Edited to delete a link to old post by me in the thread where my link didn’t work for some reason. If you search the thread for arrest you might find a way there

 

[KathPlumber]

If I was in a class with a kid that went missing at school I'd be dying to speak out about them.

Yeah. And usually the UK media will hound people to get a story you’d think something would have been uncovered by now.
That’s why I’ve wondered if there was some kind of supression order on reporting on the case at some point

 

[KathPlumber]

Can't remember quite where I read it but I think it was a female friend who said it. She seemed to suggest he had narrowed his circle of friends.

You’re correct that was in a very very early news report, I’m thinking a handful of years if not months after it happened

 

[Inspector Evans]

Yeah. And usually the UK media will hound people to get a story you’d think something would have been uncovered by now.
That’s why I’ve wondered if there was some kind of supression order on reporting on the case at some point

20th anniversary in September 2027 I imagine we will see a flurry of articles to mark the disappearance so perhaps a former classmate or someone who was on the summer trip with him might come forward. Most likely will be his Dad though.

 

[Drewby]

Andrew would've needed a willing accomplice to achieve any of that and I struggle to believe all these years later a stranger in his life up to September 2007 would've completely shielded him from anyone knowing so it is near impossible.

True. Even if he was able to obtain a new identity at 14, people are looking for him. He can't go to school under a new name without being found. He's clearly too young to work even if he presented himself as being an adult. The way I see it, the only way he's alive is if somebody kept him and looked after him, at least until he was an adult.

I think there was also a case in America where someone disappeared and was living in another city under new identity and it only came to light when they passed away.

Lori Erica Ruff? Another example of ghosting. She most likely learned how to do it by reading The Paper Trip.

The issue I have with believing Andrew is around under a new identity obtained this way is that Ghosting is a niche thing. Most people aren't aware it's possible. I know of no UK equivilent of The Paper Trip, so how he'd learn how to do it successfully I have no idea.

And it's not as easy as just obtaining a copy of a birth certificate and using that to apply for an ID. Governments generally check applications against death certificates. Things got through undetected decades ago, but certainly by 2007 in a post 9/11 world, records were digital and cross checked with death records.

The reason Lori Erica Ruff's identity did not get questioned until after her death were numerous. The main being that she started establishing the identity in the 80s at a time when different government bodies and US states did not share information. Not to mention, Becky Sue Turner (the child whose identity she used) died in a different state to the one she was born in. Furthermore, her death certificate listed her name as 'Beckie', with the DOB incorrect. So, if anyone was looking for 'Becky Sue Turner's' death certificate, they'd be none. On paper she was still alive.

It just seems implausible that Andrew would be able to pull off what Lori did.

 

[VelvetDiamante]

Only two of Andrew's peers have ever spoken publicly. One was Laura, a girl he was at primary school with (she was the one who said he shut himself off when they started secondary school). The other was Sandy, the vicar's son who Andrew would hang out with sometimes.

There was a Daily Mail article from 2009 which seems to have been removed, for some reason. I found a link but it just lead me to the home page. I found some quotes from the article, though:

Laura Oxenham, 16, has known Andrew since primary school‘If you didn’t know Andrew, you’d think he was quiet. Once you got to know him, he wasn’t. He was lively, fun, really intelligent. I think when we got to secondary school, he changed a bit. He had two close friends, but shut himself off from a lot of people. ‘When he first went missing, it was a shock, so strange. You’d be in class, looking at where he used to sit, or you’d “hear” the space where the teacher would have called his name. You’d think, “Were people horrible to him at school? Was something happening?” People have come up with their own explanations, but nothing adds up.’

Martin Taylor, Andrew’s maths teacher‘Andrew had a good sense of humour, which I liked; but he was also capable of doing calculations in his head that no one else could contemplate — with answers into the billions. Sometimes, others would run it through a calculator and claim he was one or two out, but he’d never be drawn into a discussion — it was trivial to him.‘When he went missing, the immediate response was shock, and fear that in some way we’d let him down. Was he bullied? At first, I thought his close friends were bound to know something, but eventually it dawned on me that they knew nothing. I feel so sorry for his parents and his sister. Charlotte must find it very hard in school. I don’t think he is dead. Well, I hope he is alive.’

Sandy Murray, 16, has known Andrew for ten years‘We went to different schools but used to play tennis together, then I’d go to Andrew’s and play the Xbox or he’d come to my house and use the PlayStation. ‘When he first went missing, it was scary — all the time, you were wondering what would happen next. I’ve heard theories that maybe Andrew was being bullied — but you can’t think how it would lead to this.People wonder if something was happening at home but I know for a fact that’s not true. They’re one of the nicest families I know. It has made me feel more responsible about telling my parents where I’m going, what I’m planning to do. I like them to know where I am now. I don’t want my mum to worry about me.’

Here is a documentary from 2009 which they both appeared in.

Laura speaks at 22:07 minutes in.
Sandy speaks at 22:46 minutes in.


Andrew's grandmother and aunt are interviewed too. It also features an extended version of the King's Cross footage.

 

[KathPlumber]

Only two of Andrew's peers have ever spoken publicly. One was Laura, a girl he was at primary school with (she was the one who said he shut himself off when they started secondary school). The other was Sandy, the vicar's son who Andrew would hang out with sometimes.

There was a Daily Mail article from 2009 which seems to have been removed, for some reason. I found a link but it just lead me to the home page. I found some quotes from the article, though:


Here is a documentary from 2009 which they both appeared in.

Laura speaks at 22:07 minutes in.
Sandy speaks at 22:46 minutes in.


Andrew's grandmother and aunt are interviewed too. It also features an extended version of the King's Cross footage.

Thanks very much for these. Great work

 

[KathPlumber]

20th anniversary in September 2027 I imagine we will see a flurry of articles to mark the disappearance so perhaps a former classmate or someone who was on the summer trip with him might come forward. Most likely will be his Dad though.

That’s close to TWO YEARS away! The thought of waiting until then for a new approach is unbearable.

What is going on with this investigation? It drives me spare.

 

[Inspector Evans]

That’s close to TWO YEARS away! The thought of waiting until then for a new approach is unbearable.

What is going on with this investigation? It drives me spare.

Hardly anything unless there is unforeseen or incredibly lucky break.

It's a very cold case for a reason. Barely have anything to go on after half 11 on that September morning bar theories.

 

[davidt]

Hardly anything unless there is unforeseen or incredibly lucky break.

It's a very cold case for a reason. Barely have anything to go on after half 11 on that September morning bar theories.

Yep, as far as is known there just isn't any leads or clues to go on. Absolutely nothing has turned up that provides any idea what Andrew was up to that day or what happened to him (which might be totally unconnected to what he set out to do).

 

[ekardh]

Anyone suspect the answers to Andrew's disappearance could be closer to home? Rather than an internet stranger luring him to London, I wonder if there was someone in Doncaster who convinced Andrew to play hooky for the day and have some fun down south, which ended in foul play?

 

[Inspector Evans]

Yep, as far as is known there just isn't any leads or clues to go on. Absolutely nothing has turned up that provides any idea what Andrew was up to that day or what happened to him (which might be totally unconnected to what he set out to do).

It needs something like someone randomly ringing a police department and saying they have credible information of something they saw that September.

The Hereford stuff could easily have been a hoax....but perhaps due to the slightly random location there may have been a grain of important information to pursue. It was only just over a year after he disappeared aswell so clearly the case was playing on someone's mind.

We will likely never know now what that person's intentions were as they went in person to the station which is apparently due an industrial estate so not like they were just walking past Hereford Police Station in the town centre.

Clearly Andrew was disposed of very well indeed for there to be no trace of him so far. And the PSP never seen again. Or maybe it has resurfaced and no one made a link?

Was their no unique ID or number on it that could've been flagged just in case it was quietly handed in to scrap?

 

[ekardh]

The Hereford stuff could easily have been a hoax....but perhaps due to the slightly random location there may have been a grain of important information to pursue. It was only just over a year after he disappeared aswell so clearly the case was playing on someone's mind.

Apparently, someone claiming to be that person wrote anonymously to the BBC and claimed it was regarding a possible sighting of Andrew in Shrewsbury, but who knows if they were telling the truth on either count.

Did Leominster police station really not have CCTV to record the person who visited that day? Hard to believe in police state Britain.

 

[davidt]

It needs something like someone randomly ringing a police department and saying they have credible information of something they saw that September.

The Hereford stuff could easily have been a hoax....but perhaps due to the slightly random location there may have been a grain of important information to pursue. It was only just over a year after he disappeared aswell so clearly the case was playing on someone's mind.

We will likely never know now what that person's intentions were as they went in person to the station which is apparently due an industrial estate so not like they were just walking past Hereford Police Station in the town centre.

Clearly Andrew was disposed of very well indeed for there to be no trace of him so far. And the PSP never seen again. Or maybe it has resurfaced and no one made a link?

Was their no unique ID or number on it that could've been flagged just in case it was quietly handed in to scrap?

Yes I think its either that or a body being found. It's possible of course there isn't any one to come forward. If Andrew had met with a fatal accident and not been discovered for example. Or if Andrew had been abducted and killed, after 18 years there's nothing to say the person who did it is still alive either now. There might be a lucky break. Perhaps Andrew's name or image might pop up somewhere whilst something else is being investigated. After all the authorities did arrest two people at one stage so you never know.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I wonder if there was someone in Doncaster who convinced Andrew to play hooky for the day

I think he might have been meeting with someone on the day or days he walked home from school. And they could have said they had something going on in London that day and suggested meeting there.

 

[Inspector Evans]

Apparently, someone claiming to be that person wrote anonymously to the BBC and claimed it was regarding a possible sighting of Andrew in Shrewsbury, but who knows if they were telling the truth on either count.

Did Leominster police station really not have CCTV to record the person who visited that day? Hard to believe in police state Britain.

Sorry Leominster it was!

Ah didn't know it was based on someone seeing someone resembling Andrew around Shrewsbury area, thanks.

Random locations sometimes have a grain of truth about them perhaps.

 

[Deleted member 287641]

I think he might have been meeting with someone on the day or days he walked home from school. And they could have said they had something going on in London that day and suggested meeting there.

I wonder if he may have met someone who was going off to uni or back to uni. University start dates are generally later in sept or early oct rather than school start dates which are early sept.

Student accommodation varies wildly in the UK, from shared apartments & houses to solo studio+ apartments, if you go for a private rental instead of university associated accommodation. This would give more cover potentially for a perp or associate. I knew plenty of people in university who had partners, siblings and even parents stay over in their shared university accommodation, but that leaves a lot of opportunity for someone to be found out.

 

[davidt]

I think he might have been meeting with someone on the day or days he walked home from school. And they could have said they had something going on in London that day and suggested meeting there.

Difficult to be precise but according to reports Andrew walked home from school once or possibly twice in the week before he disappeared. There doesn't appear to be any reports of anyone seeing Andrew walking and that we only have Andrew's word that he did so. So there are various possibilities and as usual we have absolutely nothing in the way of evidence. It's actually quite striking that Andrew doesn't seem have left a single hint or clue about anything. Not one person has come forward with anything of note and Andrew himself left nothing either. No one seems to have any notion of anything going on or that Andrew might have been meeting someone or anything at all.