UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[warp3dwing]

Sorry, I don't mean travel to another city as a teen, because it's no surprise he would do that, to see the city for his own reasons.

I meant would you have travelled cities with the plan of surprising a relative on their doorstep? As a teen, I would not have done that; I would have called them first before travelling all that way and just showing up.

I agree. I doubt that he planned to just show up unannounced at his relatives’ place. He would’ve been welcome to visit them (although not by missing school), but there doesn’t seem to be a precedent for Andrew making such visits.

If for some reason he had planned to do that, why keep it a secret? Why not leave a note considering his well-planned clandestine trip would be exposed the moment he arrived at the relatives’ home?

Otherwise, he would’ve had only a few hours available to him in London before he would’ve had to have gotten back on the train to make it home before he’d be reported missing. What could have been worth the pain he’d cause? Coming back home the next day to a distraught family and likely police? A rock show for a band he wasn’t known to have liked? I don’t see it. He was said to be a polite and conscientious kid, normally.

 

[vagab0nd]

RSBM.

I am very sorry you have dealt with bullying in your life. It hurts.And is so difficult as a kid/teen.

I agree if he was being bullied or excluded, he would have been struggling. I don't rule out self-harm for him (not near the top of my list, though), but we have to remember teens who do it aren't thinking about it rationally. If they go somewhere rural, they may think it would be easier on their families, to not know they did it and to have some hope.

People who take their own lives often aren't in a clear state of mind and aren't trying to be cruel at all. I think maybe it can feel too difficult to write a note, as most people don't.

I don't think we'll have many answers until something is recovered. Whether that's a body or clothing or something.

 

[vagab0nd]

Sorry, I don't mean travel to another city as a teen, because it's no surprise he would do that, to see the city for his own reasons.

I meant would you have travelled cities with the plan of surprising a relative on their doorstep? As a teen, I would not have done that; I would have called them first before travelling all that way and just showing up.

I've actually considered traveling to see my uncle and show up unannounced, but travel to the US is so expensive and with all the government drama I just decided to give up. I just thought it'd be a nice thing to do because he's aging and I haven't seen him since I moved abroad like 9 years ago. I can't see why Andrew would visit his family.

 

[Deadbeat]

What else is there left to discuss that could actually bring us closer to finding him?

Sadly, unless something new comes to light all we can do is continue to discuss possible theories. The problem with this case is that we just have so little to go on, there’s one CCTV image and we can only speculate as to what happened after that. Unfortunately I feel like all the sleuthing in the world won’t solve this mystery.

 

[wtiger]

Often the answer is far more boring than most of the theories

 

[warp3dwing]

Often the answer is far more boring than most of the theories

What’s your boring theory?

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Often the answer is far more boring than most of the theories

Bit this case is pretty unusual, IMO. To the point that any theory isn't boring, because every theory is unlikely.

 

[Inspector Evans]

Someone stole my phone during my senior year of high school. It was some boy in my culinary arts class. I wasn't friends with him. I never spoke to him. All I knew about him was he was adopted and his adopted mom was a teacher at the elementary school and he seemed to mind his own business most of the time. I had no idea he had taken my Motorola Razr from my bag until my mom contacted the school admin and he fessed up and the admin gave it back. Though upon receiving my phone back it was missing the case and he claimed not to have touched that. He never told me why he took my phone or anything. I was so worried when my phone went missing too because I had never lost anything physical in my life. I thought I was losing my mind because I knew where I last had it. Kids will do stupid things. Maybe a bully took it and he couldn't be arsed to fight back or tell anyone. Who knows.

We don't know if he was known to lose other items. There are no widespread reports from his family or investigators suggesting he was generally "forgetful" or prone to losing other personal belongings (like keys, wallets, or school equipment).

A original Sony PSP on a full charge typically lasts between 3 to 6 hours of continuous gameplay.

There's no trains at midnight. Maybe tubes around London, but definitely no trains to Yorkshire. I think my last train home I can catch from London Liverpool St Station is like 11:35pm.

He probably didn't have an email address because he didn't have people to email. He probably didn't see a point or saw it as a tool for bullies to contact him so he avoided it. Someone on Reddit said when he first went missing the local paper reported it and a bunch of his classmates commented about him being bullied so that's why he walked home before he went missing. No idea if that's true and the article is long gone and they didn't take any screenshots.

Only thing I can add here is the last train tonight going from London XC that calls at Doncaster is heading off in five minutes. 23.33 goes to Leeds and calls at Doncaster at 1.30am or thereabouts.

No idea what the timetable was in 2007 but assume a Friday night would have a very late stopping service.

Barriers would likely be open at that time and probably no ticket checker on board so can just hop on for late night/early morning ride back up to Yorkshire.

 

[matchaoatmilk]

Only thing I can add here is the last train tonight going from London XC that calls at Doncaster is heading off in five minutes. 23.33 goes to Leeds and calls at Doncaster at 1.30am or thereabouts.

No idea what the timetable was in 2007 but assume a Friday night would have a very late stopping service.

Barriers would likely be open at that time and probably no ticket checker on board so can just hop on for late night/early morning ride back up to Yorkshire.

I think discussing theories is causing trolls or something:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AndrewGosden/comments/1qk7weh/odd_graffiti

There is no way that's real. It's so cruel to do this to families. CEX was around in 2013 but they may have changed their systems and lost that data or even just purged it. I know schools purge student data after 7 years. Maybe the perp kept the PSP as a trophy. I don't know. It just seems so odd.

 

[matchaoatmilk]

I think discussing theories is causing trolls or something:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AndrewGosden/comments/1qk7weh/odd_graffiti

There is no way that's real. It's so cruel to do this to families. CEX was around in 2013 but they may have changed their systems and lost that data or even just purged it. I know schools purge student data after 7 years. Maybe the perp kept the PSP as a trophy. I don't know. It just seems so odd.

The graffiti was supposedly found this week at Waterloo Station. No clue if OP reported it, but someone def should even if it is a cruel hoax.

 

[matchaoatmilk]

The graffiti was supposedly found this week at Waterloo Station. No clue if OP reported it, but someone def should even if it is a cruel hoax.

I have submitted this to the British Transport Police in the off chance that this isn't some sick troll. You never can tell these days. I hope it's taken down or investigated.

 

[matchaoatmilk]

I know people just want to get the story out there, but it's sad that it's come to this.

 

[warp3dwing]

Sadly, unless something new comes to light all we can do is continue to discuss possible theories. The problem with this case is that we just have so little to go on, there’s one CCTV image and we can only speculate as to what happened after that. Unfortunately I feel like all the sleuthing in the world won’t solve this mystery.

Very true. I've often wondered, though, whether it'd be possible to get a hold of any of the original sighting reports through official requests, or make a public appeal for those who submitted the reports to publicly share what they think they saw.

Back in 2008, the reports said there were 45 alleged sightings in London, 11 in Brighton, and a few elsewhere. (I'm slightly surprised that very few of these alleged sightings have been retold on social media over the years.) Sure, there's a good chance many or all of them were erroneous (and the ones I've heard sound crap, TBH), but perhaps one or two of them would seem a little more likely with the benefit of hindsight.

There are so many examples of investigations that focused on the wrong theories or suspects for years or decades before new tech exposed the errors (e.g., forensic geneology). In many of those cases, it turned out that they had interviewed the suspect and wrote them off, or ignored sightings or tips that ended up being correct. We know LE was hindered by tunnel vision early in the Gosden investigation (focusing on Kevin), and they might have shrugged off reports that didn't fit what they thought happened.

The one thing sleuthers have that LE doesn't is time to dedicate to the search.

 

[matchaoatmilk]

Very true. I've often wondered, though, whether it'd be possible to get a hold of any of the original sighting reports through official requests, or make a public appeal for those who submitted the reports to publicly share what they think they saw.

Back in 2008, the reports said there were 45 alleged sightings in London, 11 in Brighton, and a few elsewhere. (I'm slightly surprised that very few of these alleged sightings have been retold on social media over the years.) Sure, there's a good chance many or all of them were erroneous (and the ones I've heard sound crap, TBH), but perhaps one or two of them would seem a little more likely with the benefit of hindsight.

There are so many examples of investigations that focused on the wrong theories or suspects for years or decades before new tech exposed the errors (e.g., forensic geneology). In many of those cases, it turned out that they had interviewed the suspect and wrote them off, or ignored sightings or tips that ended up being correct. We know LE was hindered by tunnel vision early in the Gosden investigation (focusing on Kevin), and they might have shrugged off reports that didn't fit what they thought happened.

The one thing sleuthers have that LE doesn't is time to dedicate to the search.

My husband doesn't remember who he went to school with the year before Andrew went missing let alone what he ate for dinner last Friday. How are people going to remember something like that from 20 years ago? I went on holiday with my mom to London around the time Andrew went missing. My mom tripped and cracked her knee open. She needed stitches. I could tell you she slipped down a set of stairs. How many? Don't remember. Which station? I don't remember. We were heading back from London to her friend's house. My mom has since died and after she fell she fell out with said friend we were staying with and moved on to Ipswich. I couldn't tell you where her friend lived other than it was a massive castle that her husband had inherited from family. My mom had met this woman online in a video game chatroom. She often made friends online after my dad died and would travel all over to meet them and hang out. Don't ask me why she didn't join local widow groups or something, but she developed into an Anglophile and even married two Brits. As did I but mine was just a coincidence. I was never fond of England.

 

[beubeubeu]

My husband doesn't remember who he went to school with the year before Andrew went missing let alone what he ate for dinner last Friday. How are people going to remember something like that from 20 years ago? I went on holiday with my mom to London around the time Andrew went missing. My mom tripped and cracked her knee open. She needed stitches. I could tell you she slipped down a set of stairs. How many? Don't remember. Which station? I don't remember. We were heading back from London to her friend's house. My mom has since died and after she fell she fell out with said friend we were staying with and moved on to Ipswich. I couldn't tell you where her friend lived other than it was a massive castle that her husband had inherited from family. My mom had met this woman online in a video game chatroom. She often made friends online after my dad died and would travel all over to meet them and hang out. Don't ask me why she didn't join local widow groups or something, but she developed into an Anglophile and even married two Brits. As did I but mine was just a coincidence. I was never fond of England.

The thing is that you never know. Peoples memories work all different ways. And sometimes there is no need to rely on memory cause some people have diaries or write down their important stuff. Offline, online... chances arent high but its not impossible that someone remembers cause they reported it and likely were talking about it. So it wasnt just a random thing that may or may not be worth remembering. They knew that it was relevant.

 

[matchaoatmilk]

The thing is that you never know. Peoples memories work all different ways. And sometimes there is no need to rely on memory cause some people have diaries or write down their important stuff. Offline, online... chances arent high but its not impossible that someone remembers cause they reported it and likely were talking about it. So it wasnt just a random thing that may or may not be worth remembering. They knew that it was relevant.

True. It doesn't hurt to ask, but the force may not have the resources to do that right now or may have focus somewhere else. They must know something more than we do otherwise they'd have said a statement that leans towards he's dead or something along those lines.