UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[vagab0nd]

What company would allow child labor? No one is going to let a 14 year old code games for them or something. He wouldn't have had an NI at the time so they wouldn't make promsies like that. My first coding job was at 16 and even then I had to get my contract notorized and it was a whole process. Also, Oxford to Doncaster is like a 3hr and 20min train journey.

Most people are just not involved in most things. Theyre involved in some, but with community as big and full of so many different people as schools are its just impossible to learn, have some hobbies, some private life, keep up with friends and/or some other activities like sports and so on AND ALSO know whats going on with dozens on dozens of people around. Not that much hiding is really needed usually.

Perfetc GPA and life of a party, and girlfriend, and friends, and volunteering. Well, I wouldnt say that sounds normal. Thats what you want to have in so called perfect scenario but realistically barely anyone can and hard to find anyone who would have ALL that and like 10, 20, 30 years later say it was all tiring but awesome and fun. Usually not how it goes unless theyre politicians but then they want to keep that picture perfect still.

We do have no idea what was going on with Andrew, but he wasnt an alien for unknown planet but a young boy from UK. People are not that different from each other. Many different factors so its rarely possible to guess right what was going on having just a very basic description of events but it is possible to get general idea.

Almost 20 years, parents havent figured it out. Sister havent figured it out. Investigators havent figured it out.
Nothing seems to back up the theories about Andrew having some secret life.
He may have, but if nothing like that was tracked then its safe to assume that its LESS likely that he had some big secrets than that he hasnt. Wasnt a secret that he liked London a lot. Its the way and the time he went there whats baffling. But there are hints that something at least unpleasant was going on. Cause he wasnt all happy and excited in the morning, it wasnt the normal morning for him. He anticipated something stressful.

Another kinda sure thing is that on the footage all people are looking same direction, each frame. Theyre just walking. Andrew is looking around. May not mean anything but again - more likely that he was looking for someone than that he suddenly became very interested in the surroundings... or that he was nervous cause he didnt get where he planned yet.

Another reason for not buying a returning ticket could be not having a plan to go back via London.
If the goal was to go to Oxford for example, then catching a train to London and then bus to Oxford could be the fastest way to get there. No reason to go back to London if then he could just catch a train from Oxford to Doncaster and theoretically be home for dinner.
*that Oxford is very random, just a possible reason for not buying return ticket apart from assuming on getting ride back home from London.

May be nothing to figure out. If the reason was known only to the Andrew and the person he went to meet/visit at London (or elsewhere) but that person hasnt groomed him online but met somewhere before there is no way to guess or track it down.

Lets say it wasnt some mysterious "girl" he wanted to met, nor a music concert. What if it was work related?
Yeah, sure, Andrew was 14. Old enough to hear that hes very smart and can help develop this awesome new game or build a program, work on computers, whatever. Visit me in Oxford someday (or on this specific day) I'll explain all the details to you, and aim gonna give you a laptop to work on and were gonna make it. Dont tell anyone about this cause they may steal our idea!
That story would be much smoother if I spend more than 3 mins typing that. Just a general concept. Secret not cause working on a game (for example) would be a bad thing. But parents may be worried that kid is working instead of focusing fully on school to get best grades possible. And its easy to make such a thing worth to keep secret until its done. Game, program, service, website, something like that. Then the motive would be to invest in his future.

Could we say that sort of scenario was impossible? Dont think we can. But we cant also rule out something as "trivial" as feeling bad and wanting to go and visit favorite place while not thinking about anything but to get there and have some piece of mind for an hour or two, THEN deal with the consequences and explanations and getting abducted by random.
But probability says nah. Much more likely that sudden trip which ended in disappearance was connected than that it wasnt. And almost certainly it made sense for Andrew.

To me, JMO, figuring out what could possibly make a person like Andrew take these actions that we know he did (so skipping school, taking all the money from the account but not all the money available, buying one way ticket to London, not leaving any info for parents) would offer a hint. Not a oh yeah, jackpot, Andrew must be thinking/planning same thing. But a hint.
At this point even a hint like that could be useful.

 

[vagab0nd]

Most people are just not involved in most things. Theyre involved in some, but with community as big and full of so many different people as schools are its just impossible to learn, have some hobbies, some private life, keep up with friends and/or some other activities like sports and so on AND ALSO know whats going on with dozens on dozens of people around. Not that much hiding is really needed usually.

Perfetc GPA and life of a party, and girlfriend, and friends, and volunteering. Well, I wouldnt say that sounds normal. Thats what you want to have in so called perfect scenario but realistically barely anyone can and hard to find anyone who would have ALL that and like 10, 20, 30 years later say it was all tiring but awesome and fun. Usually not how it goes unless theyre politicians but then they want to keep that picture perfect still.

We do have no idea what was going on with Andrew, but he wasnt an alien for unknown planet but a young boy from UK. People are not that different from each other. Many different factors so its rarely possible to guess right what was going on having just a very basic description of events but it is possible to get general idea.

Almost 20 years, parents havent figured it out. Sister havent figured it out. Investigators havent figured it out.
Nothing seems to back up the theories about Andrew having some secret life.
He may have, but if nothing like that was tracked then its safe to assume that its LESS likely that he had some big secrets than that he hasnt. Wasnt a secret that he liked London a lot. Its the way and the time he went there whats baffling. But there are hints that something at least unpleasant was going on. Cause he wasnt all happy and excited in the morning, it wasnt the normal morning for him. He anticipated something stressful.

Another kinda sure thing is that on the footage all people are looking same direction, each frame. Theyre just walking. Andrew is looking around. May not mean anything but again - more likely that he was looking for someone than that he suddenly became very interested in the surroundings... or that he was nervous cause he didnt get where he planned yet.

Another reason for not buying a returning ticket could be not having a plan to go back via London.
If the goal was to go to Oxford for example, then catching a train to London and then bus to Oxford could be the fastest way to get there. No reason to go back to London if then he could just catch a train from Oxford to Doncaster and theoretically be home for dinner.
*that Oxford is very random, just a possible reason for not buying return ticket apart from assuming on getting ride back home from London.

May be nothing to figure out. If the reason was known only to the Andrew and the person he went to meet/visit at London (or elsewhere) but that person hasnt groomed him online but met somewhere before there is no way to guess or track it down.

Lets say it wasnt some mysterious "girl" he wanted to met, nor a music concert. What if it was work related?
Yeah, sure, Andrew was 14. Old enough to hear that hes very smart and can help develop this awesome new game or build a program, work on computers, whatever. Visit me in Oxford someday (or on this specific day) I'll explain all the details to you, and aim gonna give you a laptop to work on and were gonna make it. Dont tell anyone about this cause they may steal our idea!
That story would be much smoother if I spend more than 3 mins typing that. Just a general concept. Secret not cause working on a game (for example) would be a bad thing. But parents may be worried that kid is working instead of focusing fully on school to get best grades possible. And its easy to make such a thing worth to keep secret until its done. Game, program, service, website, something like that. Then the motive would be to invest in his future.

Could we say that sort of scenario was impossible? Dont think we can. But we cant also rule out something as "trivial" as feeling bad and wanting to go and visit favorite place while not thinking about anything but to get there and have some piece of mind for an hour or two, THEN deal with the consequences and explanations and getting abducted by random.
But probability says nah. Much more likely that sudden trip which ended in disappearance was connected than that it wasnt. And almost certainly it made sense for Andrew.

To me, JMO, figuring out what could possibly make a person like Andrew take these actions that we know he did (so skipping school, taking all the money from the account but not all the money available, buying one way ticket to London, not leaving any info for parents) would offer a hint. Not a oh yeah, jackpot, Andrew must be thinking/planning same thing. But a hint.
At this point even a hint like that could be useful.

Not many kids out there do what Andrew did. I know I never got grounded or yelled at and was a rule follower, but there's no way 14 year old me (who actively met boyfriends via MySpace) would take money somehow and go on a day trip or weekend trip to London. At that age I am fully aware my parents would be worried if I didn't make it home. I don't care about the getting caught bit. Andrew must've known the same. He must've known that if he didn't make it home before them that they'd find out. I once walked home from school with a friend instead of taking the bus. It was like a 30 mins walk and my parents caught me and I tried to lie about it and they were like no we saw you and I said oh just wanted to check out the neighbours new car down the street. They said okay and dropped it and I never walked home again. Why did me and my friend suddenly plan to walk home instead of take the bus? No reason. Just a spur of the moment decision with no thought. It's clear Andrew didn't do this spur of the moment. He had a reason. Maybe he was groomed, but there's no digital evidence or paper evidence. There's no evidence to say any theory is wrong. I just don't really know. It all seems odd. I can't imagine losing my perfect attendance record. I keep a habit tracker and I'm very meticulous about doing my habits every day. I get upset if I miss something. If I make a mistake at work I get heartburn and I can't sleep and I think about it. It makes me uncomfortable. Maybe Andrew wasn't the perfectionist that people make him out to be and that's okay, but why did missing a day of school not bother him? Why was he ok with his parents potentially getting a school fine for his unexcused absence? Why did he believe the school wouldn't know? I mean, if I skipped school my mom would be getting a call on her cellphone at just after 7am and you best believe she'd text me asap. Why was Andrew not thinking logically or was he and he didn't care?

There are many missing children, but very very few Andrew Gosdens

 

[Professor Moriarty]

Andrew was a maths expert. Compare the case of Gareth Williams, who was also a maths expert. GW was older when he died, but he seems to have had a private life his family did not know about. He had passed two qualifications in fashion design and had a load of women's clothing. He had spent time on some very odd websites. Strange.

 

[vagab0nd]

Andrew was a maths expert. Compare the case of Gareth Williams, who was also a maths expert. GW was older when he died, but he seems to have had a private life his family did not know about. He had passed two qualifications in fashion design and had a load of women's clothing. He had spent time on some very odd websites. Strange.

At least Gareth left clues that make his case make sense. Spent time on odd websites? Probably met a weirdo who stuffed him in a bag. He's not the first. Some woman stuffed her lover in a suitcase over sex or something and was recently tried.

 

[beubeubeu]

What company would allow child labor? No one is going to let a 14 year old code games for them or something. He wouldn't have had an NI at the time so they wouldn't make promsies like that. My first coding job was at 16 and even then I had to get my contract notorized and it was a whole process. Also, Oxford to Doncaster is like a 3hr and 20min train journey.

The one in the making. Project that would pay off as it was done in a year or two.
Most companies allow child labor as long as its not official and called "helping with family business", entertainment industry allows it and working on inventions allow it as well.

 

[vagab0nd]

The one in the making. Project that would pay off as it was done in a year or two.
Most companies allow child labor as long as its not official and called "helping with family business", entertainment industry allows it and working on inventions allow it as well.

Look, I understand the desire to find a scenario where Andrew is safe and successful, but this theory is completely detached from the reality of living in the UK. The idea that a 14-year-old—no matter how gifted—could be "utilized" for a secret project or hidden within a family business is essentially a movie plot that ignores every legal and social safeguard we have. In the UK, child employment is strictly regulated by local councils; even for a "family business," a child cannot work during school hours, and an employer would need a specific permit. For a company to secretly harbor a missing teenager for a "project," they would be committing serious criminal offenses, including human trafficking and kidnapping. No legitimate business or inventor is going to risk a life sentence to hire a kid who hasn't even finished his GCSEs when they could just hire a PhD student legally.
Beyond the legalities, you have to consider how impossible it is to live as a "ghost" in modern Britain. To be an employee, you need a National Insurance number and a bank account, both of which require identity documents Andrew didn't have with him. If he ever got sick or needed a dentist, the moment his NHS number was entered into any system in the country, it would have flagged him as a missing person. We are one of the most heavily documented and surveilled societies in the world; you can’t just disappear into a professional "lab" environment for nearly two decades without a single tax record, medical visit, or digital footprint ever coming to light.

Finally, the theory just doesn't match Andrew's actual behavior that day. If he was heading off to a prestigious "project in the making," he wouldn't have left £100 of his own birthday money sitting on his bedroom table. He didn't take a change of clothes, he didn't take a coat, and most tellingly for a "tech prodigy," he didn't even take his PSP charger. That isn't the behavior of someone moving away to start a new, high-tech career; it's the behavior of a 14-year-old who wasn't planning for the long term. Suggesting he’s just "working an invention" is a comforting fantasy, but it ignores the cold, hard reality of how difficult—and dangerous—it is to exist outside the system in the UK.

 

[wtiger]

Look, I understand the desire to find a scenario where Andrew is safe and successful, but this theory is completely detached from the reality of living in the UK. The idea that a 14-year-old—no matter how gifted—could be "utilized" for a secret project or hidden within a family business is essentially a movie plot that ignores every legal and social safeguard we have. In the UK, child employment is strictly regulated by local councils; even for a "family business," a child cannot work during school hours, and an employer would need a specific permit. For a company to secretly harbor a missing teenager for a "project," they would be committing serious criminal offenses, including human trafficking and kidnapping. No legitimate business or inventor is going to risk a life sentence to hire a kid who hasn't even finished his GCSEs when they could just hire a PhD student legally.
Beyond the legalities, you have to consider how impossible it is to live as a "ghost" in modern Britain. To be an employee, you need a National Insurance number and a bank account, both of which require identity documents Andrew didn't have with him. If he ever got sick or needed a dentist, the moment his NHS number was entered into any system in the country, it would have flagged him as a missing person. We are one of the most heavily documented and surveilled societies in the world; you can’t just disappear into a professional "lab" environment for nearly two decades without a single tax record, medical visit, or digital footprint ever coming to light.

Finally, the theory just doesn't match Andrew's actual behavior that day. If he was heading off to a prestigious "project in the making," he wouldn't have left £100 of his own birthday money sitting on his bedroom table. He didn't take a change of clothes, he didn't take a coat, and most tellingly for a "tech prodigy," he didn't even take his PSP charger. That isn't the behavior of someone moving away to start a new, high-tech career; it's the behavior of a 14-year-old who wasn't planning for the long term. Suggesting he’s just "working an invention" is a comforting fantasy, but it ignores the cold, hard reality of how difficult—and dangerous—it is to exist outside the system in the UK.

best post on the entire thread

 

[beubeubeu]

Not many kids out there do what Andrew did. I know I never got grounded or yelled at and was a rule follower, but there's no way 14 year old me (who actively met boyfriends via MySpace) would take money somehow and go on a day trip or weekend trip to London. At that age I am fully aware my parents would be worried if I didn't make it home. I don't care about the getting caught bit. Andrew must've known the same. He must've known that if he didn't make it home before them that they'd find out. I once walked home from school with a friend instead of taking the bus. It was like a 30 mins walk and my parents caught me and I tried to lie about it and they were like no we saw you and I said oh just wanted to check out the neighbours new car down the street. They said okay and dropped it and I never walked home again. Why did me and my friend suddenly plan to walk home instead of take the bus? No reason. Just a spur of the moment decision with no thought. It's clear Andrew didn't do this spur of the moment. He had a reason. Maybe he was groomed, but there's no digital evidence or paper evidence. There's no evidence to say any theory is wrong. I just don't really know. It all seems odd. I can't imagine losing my perfect attendance record. I keep a habit tracker and I'm very meticulous about doing my habits every day. I get upset if I miss something. If I make a mistake at work I get heartburn and I can't sleep and I think about it. It makes me uncomfortable. Maybe Andrew wasn't the perfectionist that people make him out to be and that's okay, but why did missing a day of school not bother him? Why was he ok with his parents potentially getting a school fine for his unexcused absence? Why did he believe the school wouldn't know? I mean, if I skipped school my mom would be getting a call on her cellphone at just after 7am and you best believe she'd text me asap. Why was Andrew not thinking logically or was he and he didn't care?

There are many missing children, but very very few Andrew Gosdens

Perfect attendance record? On september 14? Does it hold any value? Isnt it a thing you lose by getting sick?
Is it some sort of a big deal in UK?
Where I live there were like 1-3 people with perfect attendance. They got a congrats letter and a book at the end of the year and thats all.
What if a kid would go to school but felt sick on the way, went back home, fell on a bed and slept, feverish till parents went back home. Would that cause troubles at school or be completely explainable?

 

[vagab0nd]

Perfect attendance record? On september 14? Does it hold any value? Isnt it a thing you lose by getting sick?
Is it some sort of a big deal in UK?
Where I live there were like 1-3 people with perfect attendance. They got a congrats letter and a book at the end of the year and thats all.
What if a kid would go to school but felt sick on the way, went back home, fell on a bed and slept, feverish till parents went back home. Would that cause troubles at school or be completely explainable?

I can definitely give you some perspective on why this "perfect attendance" thing is such a massive detail in the Andrew Gosden case. Over here in the UK, maintaining a 100% attendance record is a pretty big deal, especially for a student like Andrew who was in the "Gifted and Talented" program. It isn't just about getting a book or a certificate at the end of the year; it signals to the teachers and the authorities that a kid is completely "low risk." In our schools, you’ll often see those with perfect records rewarded with things like gift cards, tablets, or "skip-the-queue" passes for the canteen. Some schools even do prize draws for big items like iPads or organize end-of-term trips to theme parks for the "100%ers." Because Andrew had never broken that streak, his school and his parents had total trust in him. He wasn't the type of kid anyone would expect to see "skiving" or "mouching" off school, which is why his decision to leave for London that morning was such a total departure from his character.

The reason it caused such a mess is that our school system is actually quite rigid about tracking us. If you don't show up for morning registration by about 9:00 AM, the school is supposed to call your parents immediately. We have strict laws where parents can be fined—usually starting at £80 and doubling to £160 if not paid quickly—or even prosecuted if their kids miss school without a valid reason. Beyond the prizes and fines, that "gold star" record is a massive part of a student's UCAS application for university. For someone like Andrew, who was a prize-winning mathematician destined for a top-tier school like Cambridge, a teacher’s reference stating he had "100% attendance for five years" would be proof of the "grit" and reliability universities look for. It’s essentially a guarantee to admissions officers that the student is disciplined and won't drop out when the work gets hard.

In Andrew's specific case, the school actually tried to call his parents that morning, but the staff member reportedly dialed the wrong number. Because they didn't get through and didn't try again, his parents didn't find out he was missing until he didn't come home at 7:00 PM. That reputation for being a "perfect" student basically gave him a head start because no one suspected he’d ever just walk away. Regarding your question about a kid feeling sick and going home to sleep: if that happened here today, it would cause a bit of a panic. If the parents weren't home and the school couldn't reach them, it would be treated as a safeguarding crisis. The school would likely send someone to the house or even call the police for a welfare check if they couldn't account for the student. In 2007, things were a bit more relaxed, but for a student like Andrew, disappearing for the day was unheard of. That's why that specific date, September 14, is so haunting; it was the one and only time he broke the rules, and he never came back.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

If he was heading off to a prestigious "project in the making," he wouldn't have left £100 of his own birthday money sitting on his bedroom table.

Do you have a source for his £100 being easily found on his table? Because I don't remember ever reading in an article or hearing in an interview with his father where that birthday money was kept.

It's always been my assumption that he just couldn't remember where he kept it hidden away, or maybe he even forgot about it.

I think it matters just a little, whether he purposely left it behind in an obvious place, though it's hard to say why. But he really thought he could need 200£ that day, and you have to wonder, Why? It's a lot of money for a 14-year-old to carry around on purpose, IMO.

 

[vagab0nd]

Do you have a source for his £100 being easily found on his table? Because I don't remember ever reading in an article or hearing in an interview with his father where that birthday money was kept.

It's always been my assumption that he just couldn't remember where he kept it hidden away, or maybe he even forgot about it.

I think it matters just a little, whether he purposely left it behind in an obvious place, though it's hard to say why. But he really thought he could need 200£ that day, and you have to wonder, Why? It's a lot of money for a 14-year-old to carry around on purpose, IMO.

I heard it on a podcast on Spotify, but maybe they got it wrong.

£200 is oddly specific. Even if he were going to trade in his PSP for a newer model that was released that day he wouldn't get a lot for it. I went to CEX to sell my husband's old Nintendo console and they offered me like £30. It goes for £70 on eBay. Maybe he needed the cash to get to another location, but even then train tickets would've been under £30 because he gets a discount for traveling under the age of 16. Maybe he left money behind so if he were ever asked in future what happened to his money he could say he still had some left?

We also have to remember that Andrew had a specific bank card that meant he could not swipe it at shops. He could only use it to withdraw money. at the time if you were under 16 you would be issued a 'cashpoint card', which could only be used at ATMs. It couldn't be used to purchase things in stores or online. According to another user who had worked at a bank, you couldn't get a full debit card until you were 18.

 

[vagab0nd]