UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[scottishgal]

what I think happened ? If I had to present just one theory that I thought more likely than the others

My son went through a summer thinking he might be gay. My husband, bless, was bewildered re how to respond appropriately and reacted with disappointment, confusion, denial. I was supportive, I faked it till I made it, but inside I was worried how much harder and different and more complicated his life might well be by this path.

I think Andrew went through this phase on his sexuality at the time of trying to figure it out and was exploring trying to understand himself there.

This is the only reason I believe he would cut school and not tell his parents about what had to at the very very least be a almost certainly hours away from home including travel time.

I do think it was an older boy or man who suggested they meet up in London and I do think this was someone very much in his hometown. who this might be, no clue.

I do think it intriguing the PE teach suicide the week before and perhaps a loose connection there.

 

[avob00]

I personally don't feel his sexuality has any relevance whatsoever to his disappearance.

He actually mentioned to his father Kevin that he liked a girl at school shortly before he disappeared. This was covered in a sit down video on YouTube.

Now, look I know he was 14 and things can change but I don't think that he was gay personally.

I think the most likely scenario is he went to London to do something maybe to the PSP launch experience and unfortunately something happened when he left the store if he even made it to the store in the first place. The amount of money he had would’ve covered the cost of the PSP.

Maybe he was robbed for the PSP. Maybe someone tried to rob him for the remainder of the money that he had. Maybe he ventured out of the direct zone 1/2 and something happened there in the likes of Zone 3 etc. We don't know.

The chances of somebody being attacked, kidnapped and murdered directly in the center of London on a busy Friday afternoon are very very slim.

Andrew had to go to London on that day for a specific reason. He had been asked to go to London in the summer by his parents to visit his grandparents and he declined so for whatever reason he decided he needed to go to London that day.

Something was happening in London on that day and many people over the years have put together all of the events and all of the things that were occurring in London on that Friday and on that weekend, but to me, I think the PSP launch makes the most sense and is closest to his interests.

A lot of people argue against the PSP Theory and say that he could have just bought the PSP in Doncaster shopping centre, which is true. Bur I don't really think the launch would have been anywhere near as exciting and as buzzing as having it in Oxford Street where there would have been a lot of press, media attention, interaction.

Unfortunately, the big problem with this case is that the CCTV was probably on tape and was wiped at that time. I think if this happened nowadays, the CCTV would have been kept a little longer (I assume on Cloud?) and they would have been able to retrieve it. Andrew definitely would have been caught on some of the cameras in London and they would have been able to track his movements and form a timeline/assumption as to what could have happened.

They really should have at the time appealed to the workers in the GAME store on Oxford Street if they had served someone of his description, but again that launch would have had thousands of people attending so most likely the staff would not have remembered him.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

not impossible to do this with at least one dedicated resource being put on this case?
Perhaps even a crowd funded private investigator / ex LE or similar.

Andrew's dad has said in an interview that although it took years, there is a good team currently assigned to Andrew's case. A team they are happy with. Also that they don't see any avenues for a PI to investigate or else they would have considered that... JMO.

 

[NorthParade]

I think Andrew was using internet cafes during the summer holidays from school. That is how he met someone online. The police never investigated internet cafes in Doncaster.

The mention of online/multiplayer gaming in that era jogged a memory for me. In 2009-10 I was dating someone who lived in Islington, and when I stayed over, I’d often walk down Pentonville Road to King’s Cross the next morning. At that time, there was a gaming cafe on Pentonville Road where you could pay by the hour to game online. I noticed it because I was into World of Warcraft at the time, and considered going in there to play, though I never did. It looked fairly dark inside, but well set up with lots of screens and a bit more sophisticated than your average net cafe. Frustratingly there seem to be no pictures of it online, and a complete absence of Google Street View on that stretch of road before 2022.

It hasn’t been there for years, but I’m fairly sure I’ve identified the spot where it was, the address and the name of the company. (I’m not sure if we’re allowed to post such details, but it’s quite easily searchable, using obvious terms.) As far as I can tell, the business was incorporated in 2006 so it’s likely that the cafe would have been there in September 2007.

It was only a couple of minutes’ brisk walk from where Andrew exited the station. It seems plausible that given his interests, he might have headed there, especially if he had time to kill, either to game on his own or to meet someone.

The usual caveats apply - MOO, purely speculation - but this does seem like the sort of place that should at least have been checked out once police knew he had arrived at King’s Cross.

 

[TheRockingRev]

Hello Folks, have been reading up on this case this week. I found about the case only when searching for info on Madeline M's case - as Andrew apparently had been really shocked by MM's case and empathized with how bad the parents must have felt/ been feeling - this was cited as an indication that he himself would never voluntarily put his parents through that.

And now my feeling is - this case perhaps can get a viable suspect only by using the same approach that ended up being used in MMs case to finally get one viable suspect (not solved yet no, but we have a viable suspect CB whom the German authorities at least seem convinced about).

Who are the known paedo's operating at that time in London and using cellphone records from Sept 2007 can anyone of them be traced to anywhere in the vicinity of KC on Sept 14 2007 - an additional detail like their cellphone or car records showing a drive to Doncaster in the months before and other unusual activity in the days after (CB had ownership transferred or plates changed on his vehicle literally the day or two after MM disappearance for e.g) and that could be a real cincher in a viable suspect being narrowed down.

The problem is is that although you could be looking at known offenders in London at that time (and there would be hundreds) would the offender have lured Andrew to where they were from - or instead have been from another area and then travelled to London as a central meeting point? In which case it could be from anywhere. Remember some are connected by rings, to which members come from different areas.
I don't think, and I could be wrong, but those phone and car records wouldn't exist now - an you have to remember that it was years ago when technology wasn't so good.

I know that, unlike a known sex offender in Praia Da Luz, a known sex offender in London is a needle in a haystack but not impossible to do this with at least one dedicated resource being put on this case?
Perhaps even a crowd funded private investigator / ex LE or similar.

Although I'm not against the idea that Andrew was lured to London - one big stumbling block on that particular theory for me is that Andrew would've have had to have gone to a specific address IMO. Would a perp risk being seen on CCTV with Andrew, or risked something between them that would've created a scene in public?

Also, probably already covered by LE, but everyone connected with the school's movements to be traced to potential London KC travel days before/after 14 Sept 2007 and any other unusual movements by that person.

Again very hard to do - back then you could pay more with cash for train tickets, so no digital record plus even if you did pay by card it's very hard to say that the payment to the train company was specifically to kc.

Lastly, again, prob covered by LE, but CCTV /door to door of the walk home in lieu of school bus re 4 miles in the two days before the disappearance. Anyone at all he was seen talking to on those two walks should be checked per above list re movements to/from London during the time.

Although there was local CCTV that picked him up, unfortunately back then there was very little in terms of home CCTV. Certainly no Ring doorbells etc.

A lot has been talked about how he had no cell phone but this was 2007 and he could easily have placed or received calls via the home LAN phone when parents were at work. All calls made by him or received by him should be analyzed from the LAN phone call records for the months before.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

one big stumbling block on that particular theory for me is that Andrew would've have had to have gone to a specific address IMO. Would a perp risk being seen on CCTV with Andrew

It would really matter where they met up, though. If he met someone maybe it was a neighborhood where the perp knew there weren't a lot of cameras and took the chance. Or maybe he entered a vehicle/taxi and was driven somewhere. The thing is, perps take these chances, even though you would think they wouldn't.

 

[VelvetDiamante]

I don't believe the PSP launch was his motivation to go to London. Andrew was saving up for an Xbox 360, which had already been out for 3 years at that point, so he doesn't seem like the type of kid who was desperate for the lastest tech and gadgets. Also, if he went to buy the the PSP, he wouldn't have had enough money left to buy another train ticket home, and he would have needed to get something to eat as well (I do think it was probably him at Pizza Hut). I think he simply took the PSP with him because he wanted to play his game on the long train journey.

 

[Cedars]

Andrew was saving up for an Xbox 360,

Interesting and important if true - do you have a link?

Cause if he was saving up his money for anything particular, it would take something important for him to go spend the money on something else.

 

[matchaoatmilk]

I personally don't feel his sexuality has any relevance whatsoever to his disappearance.

He actually mentioned to his father Kevin that he liked a girl at school shortly before he disappeared. This was covered in a sit down video on YouTube.

Now, look I know he was 14 and things can change but I don't think that he was gay personally.

I think the most likely scenario is he went to London to do something maybe to the PSP launch experience and unfortunately something happened when he left the store if he even made it to the store in the first place. The amount of money he had would’ve covered the cost of the PSP.

Maybe he was robbed for the PSP. Maybe someone tried to rob him for the remainder of the money that he had. Maybe he ventured out of the direct zone 1/2 and something happened there in the likes of Zone 3 etc. We don't know.

The chances of somebody being attacked, kidnapped and murdered directly in the center of London on a busy Friday afternoon are very very slim.

Andrew had to go to London on that day for a specific reason. He had been asked to go to London in the summer by his parents to visit his grandparents and he declined so for whatever reason he decided he needed to go to London that day.

Something was happening in London on that day and many people over the years have put together all of the events and all of the things that were occurring in London on that Friday and on that weekend, but to me, I think the PSP launch makes the most sense and is closest to his interests.

A lot of people argue against the PSP Theory and say that he could have just bought the PSP in Doncaster shopping centre, which is true. Bur I don't really think the launch would have been anywhere near as exciting and as buzzing as having it in Oxford Street where there would have been a lot of press, media attention, interaction.

Unfortunately, the big problem with this case is that the CCTV was probably on tape and was wiped at that time. I think if this happened nowadays, the CCTV would have been kept a little longer (I assume on Cloud?) and they would have been able to retrieve it. Andrew definitely would have been caught on some of the cameras in London and they would have been able to track his movements and form a timeline/assumption as to what could have happened.

They really should have at the time appealed to the workers in the GAME store on Oxford Street if they had served someone of his description, but again that launch would have had thousands of people attending so most likely the staff would not have remembered him.

His father had no qualms in buying him an Xbox. So why didn't Andrew ask him to take him to a PSP launch event?

 

[matchaoatmilk]

The mention of online/multiplayer gaming in that era jogged a memory for me. In 2009-10 I was dating someone who lived in Islington, and when I stayed over, I’d often walk down Pentonville Road to King’s Cross the next morning. At that time, there was a gaming cafe on Pentonville Road where you could pay by the hour to game online. I noticed it because I was into World of Warcraft at the time, and considered going in there to play, though I never did. It looked fairly dark inside, but well set up with lots of screens and a bit more sophisticated than your average net cafe. Frustratingly there seem to be no pictures of it online, and a complete absence of Google Street View on that stretch of road before 2022.

It hasn’t been there for years, but I’m fairly sure I’ve identified the spot where it was, the address and the name of the company. (I’m not sure if we’re allowed to post such details, but it’s quite easily searchable, using obvious terms.) As far as I can tell, the business was incorporated in 2006 so it’s likely that the cafe would have been there in September 2007.

It was only a couple of minutes’ brisk walk from where Andrew exited the station. It seems plausible that given his interests, he might have headed there, especially if he had time to kill, either to game on his own or to meet someone.

The usual caveats apply - MOO, purely speculation - but this does seem like the sort of place that should at least have been checked out once police knew he had arrived at King’s Cross.

I am under the assumption it wasn't checked out because Andrew had no interest in the internet or computers.