Found Deceased UK - Anthony Knott, 33, last seen at a pub in Lewes, Sussex, 20 Dec 2019 #2

[Scorpiette]

Did LE give a press conference today (as they said they would) about their search yesterday for the other missing person?

 

[Ruthbullock]

Could he have known firefighters working out of Lewes fire station in North Street?
Perhaps a former colleague who had transferred there?
Did he pop up there to see if they were at work?
Maybe a local can tell us whether the station is manned 24 hours?

He only completed his training this year, so quite possibly knew local fire fighters. Do I think he would go visit them at work whilst he’s been drinking with other colleagues, probably not- I would have thought he would invite them to join him after their shift. JMO and I get what you are asking.

 

[Ruthbullock]

If he was that sensible he would not have left his friends without telling them where he was going.

In all honesty, we don’t know that he didn’t tell them.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Did LE give a press conference today (as they said they would) about their search yesterday for the other missing person?

Nope

 

[Ruthbullock]

Anyone find it slightly odd that they guys went out on an all day bender but as far as we know, they only managed two pubs?
I know the Royal Oak was mentioned, but only because they would have passed it.

They went in 4 that we have been told- the article from today that was shared tells us about 3 and previous articles said they then moved to the elephant and castle (it was originally stated at 7.00, then moved to 8.00). It’s a pub crawl they are one after the other map wise. I still think some of the group were already at E&C and that’s why he headed up that way, then decided he needed cigs and kept walking to try and find a local shop, which he may or may not of found and then wandered back. Assuming he wandered and didn’t find a shop, that would explain why he walked back past and took a different route to try and find a shop.

 

[SheCarrot]

Amay have been more inebriated than he appeared: not everyone staggers when they’re way over the limit. He didn’t have a drink in The Lamb, which suggests he felt he’d had enough.


Going by the fact he left the pub and appears to have been possibly disoriented, feeling tipsy, unfamiliar with his surroundings, he then got lost - hence him walking down towards the residential area. He spent about 20 minutes down there before walking back up again, so clearly his sense of direction was skewed for some reason.

If that’s the case, and it appears to be, then it’s highly likely he became lost and disoriented when trying to reach Waitrose/Tesco. He may have noticed what he thought was a shortcut and with it being dark, wet and slippery, he could have easily slipped into the river.

He was wearing smart shoes which don’t grip as well as trainers; he did seem to stumble slightly on the first CCTV; he did have a “bouncy walk” due to walking on his toes which would make you more liable to slip...he had alcohol in his system...and according to reports the river was extremely dangerous that night with a fast current.

I suspect, tragically, he fell into the very cold water and was dragged away by the current: it happens frequently to people all over the world.

bbm

I think this makes sense .
When you're in that kind of group/pub drinking environment , you're kind of cocooned from reality , a little - easy to look around you and think 'well , I'm not as drunk as 'Fred' and I'm nowhere near as drunk as 'Pat' , and then you venture out into the chilly night air and you get a little slap of 'hey , actually , I'm exceedingly drunk' .

I'm sure it applies to most city environments , but if we applied Londoner sensibilities to AK , there's a natural inclination toward trying to maintain a look of 'sober' , because the more obviously trollied you are the more vulnerable a target you might be for an opportunistic mugging .
I don't think that that inclination would necessarily leave you just because you happen to be in Lewes and not lost , drunk and wandering the streets of Stockwell , for example (no offence , people of Stockwell) .
So I think you're absolutely right - the walk probably belies the capability .
As a slight aside , with age(probably) comes a diminishing ability to just down pints for hours and hours , bearing in mind , too , that there may have been a pint or two consumed at The Swan(W.Wickham) before the journey down .
I'm not suggesting they all were dropping Jägers , or similar , but they may have been at the 'shorts' stage of drinking by then which can ramp up the overall effect and sometimes rather quickly .

Fatigue , too , has an effect on reactions and processing , I'm sure - the family had mentioned (on Lewes P) that A had done a 12 hour night shift the night before the Lewes trip . Having a bevvie or two or four might perk you up for a while , but I think weariness will eventually win .

I'm definitely with @Angleterre in that I believe(I really want to believe) that an inbuilt cautionary mentally would trump an incident with water that might well befall someone from any other walk of life .
But a slip/fall/knock to the head , or even just nausea/falling asleep/nausea ? I think these are possibilities .

mpoo

 

[Alyce]

dbm

 

[Alyce]

Anyone find it slightly odd that they guys went out on an all day bender but as far as we know, they only managed two pubs?
I know the Royal Oak was mentioned, but only because they would have passed it.

Apart from the pub in West Wickham...which I thought was just AK and one pal..... we know that the main group that met in Lewes went to The Lansdown, The Lamb, The Royal Oak and The Elephant and Castle.....
So they covered 4 pubs ......and just as AK and his mate had drinks in West Wickham , it is possible that some of the others also had drinks along the way before they all met up at The Lansdown.

For a small group of 12, on a works outing, that seems a reasonable amount of venues.

edited - again !

 

[motherofdaughters]

It really depends on the intelligence that they received and the staff that they have available to prioritise actions accordingly so it’s like saying how long is a piece of string.
When a major incident is declared, the SIO has to complete a policy book with a summary of what’s known to date as well as all actions (lines of enquires) raised and everything that has been considered and acted upon or considered and not acted upon and the justifications for both .
They also will set and detail search parameters and specify again with justification, why those parameters have been set and they have to implement a CCTV strategy to state what they are going to view and again the justification or otherwise if a decision taken not to view it.
There’s a ton of stuff going on behind the scenes and I don’t know if they are running the major incident on paper records or HOLMES ( Home office major enquiry system brought in after the Yorkshire ripper enquiry when intelligence was lost as were opportunities to apprehend the suspect because they were working on paper records across different police forces and not sharing information). So atm its an unknown quantity... there will be a Detective assigned as a FLO ( family liaison officer) who bridges the gap between the SIO and enquiry team and the family.
With it having been the Christmas period too, as sad as it is, there would have been less staff on duty covering the bank holidays because of budget constraints so that may have impacted on what staff are available to collate and view all CCTV
And don’t forget that in itself is a huge task as most shops would have been closed over Christmas so they would have had to be chasing key holders for premises to secure the CCTV before it’s wiped ( generally 31 days) .
So a huge task . I’m sorry for waffling but it is important to understand the whys and wherefores to the whole investigation x

Really interesting, thanks Angel.
I thought CCTV was wiped after 24 hours so 31 days is more reassuring

 

[motherofdaughters]

There’s something really nagging me here about Anthony’s disappearance. I accept that the likelihood is the water as there’s nothing else so far that we are aware of ( albeit the Police will have details that they won’t necessarily share). However, there are varying trains of thought and opinions as to how inebriated he seemed ( not that much to me but what do I know from a photograph or fuzzy CCTV images). And what is bugging me is his occupation as a firefighter and the fact that a mandatory and particular part of their initial and continued training is water rescue. He will be more aware than most of the dangers of water and how quickly you can succumb to its wrath. And whilst I accept in drink that our normal reasoning and some of our 360 degree awareness goes out of the window, I just find it mind boggling that he was according to maps and witnesses or cctv testimony, going away from the water and this coupled with the fact of his awareness of water dangers, really has me scratching my head. I know it can be upon you before you realise but it is just concerning to me.
I don’t have any alternative views as there are no further facts to base them on. My brother is a 30 year time served firefighter and he himself has said that although our defences are lowered when under the influence, he would (IHOO) still be more aware than most of the dangers of water, even in an unknown or unfamiliar place.
I jus want Anthony to be found safe and well and him having needed to take time out for whatever reason until he’s ready to reappear as the alternative doesn’t bear thinking about
Again I say this respectfully and all MOO

Me too, Angel.
A good friend of mine’s husband is quite high up in the Fire service. He is more to do with organising and major events now rather than being called on jobs. He was in Sheffield to help with floods recently etc.
I saw him on Fri and asked him about the water and if he’d be more aware given his job etc.
He said it’s inbuilt in you, from very early on. Even drunk, you’d inherently know what to or not to do.
It would have to be a tragic accident to have been water.
So I’m on your page too.

 

[motherofdaughters]

I still wonder why he left the pub -- I know we've come up with a few ideas, all of them seen reasonable. I just can't get my head around his friends no knowing. Maybe it's just me but I would say that I'm just nipping out to get some money, food etc...

The above article indicates that the plan for Anthony wasn't to go home alone ( as in sharing the cab with his friends) and also what comes to mind if he didn't have a drink at the pub he left (and if i remember correctly he was there for a bit) then he would obviously be more sober with the lack of alcohol?

Sorry for the rambling

I’d suspect they know the reason and it’s just not been shared. I’m not sure why as it just leads to people speculating.

 

[Angleterre]

Me too, Angel.
A good friend of mine’s husband is quite high up in the Fire service. He is more to do with organising and major events now rather than being called on jobs. He was in Sheffield to help with floods recently etc.
I saw him on Fri and asked him about the water and if he’d be more aware given his job etc.
He said it’s inbuilt in you, from very early on. Even drunk, you’d inherently know what to or not to do.
It would have to be a tragic accident to have been water.
So I’m on your page too.

Yes I’m sure it is inherently built into you and even inebriated , he would possibly be more aware but if he is not in the water ( I despise typing that ), then where is he?

 

[motherofdaughters]

Yes I’m sure it is inherently built into you and even inebriated , he would possibly be more aware but if he is not in the water ( I despise typing that ), then where is he?

And that’s my sticking point too

 

[Skigh]

I’d suspect they know the reason and it’s just not been shared. I’m not sure why as it just leads to people speculating.

I would have thought that if he had told his friends something ,such as he was going to find a shop to buy cigarettes that would have been reported in the media.
That information could help to find him.
So what reason for him leaving would be kept from being reported in the media?

 

[Ruthbullock]

I get the drunk theory- but in the original footage only once ( out of the 4 times, I think that’s correct but is a guesstimate) does he bring a drink outside with him, he also didn’t buy or have a drink at the Lamb. I don’t think he was that drunk personally.

 

[Ruthbullock]

I would have thought that if he had told his friends something ,such as he was going to find a shop to buy cigarettes that would have been reported in the media.
That information could help to find him.
So what reason for him leaving would be kept from being reported in the media?

Like I said my gut feeling is he left to join the others at the next pub, but then decided he’d see if anywhere nearby he could purchase cigarettes from. To say he was going to the next pub, which we know (although not with 100% certainty, as he could have entered and looked round from the rear and that would have been missed by CCTV)- would create even more speculation than not saying anything.

 

[Rosegold68]

I would have thought that if he had told his friends something ,such as he was going to find a shop to buy cigarettes that would have been reported in the media.
That information could help to find him.
So what reason for him leaving would be kept from being reported in the media?

something which may colour the publics opinion of him, making them less inclined to want to help?

 

[motherofdaughters]

Is anyone on a the FB page? am I right that his fiancé is on it?
Has anyone asked why he left? Or if indeed it’s known?

 

[Ruthbullock]

something which may colour the publics opinion of him, making them less inclined to want to help?

Or the public opinion of firefighters, I’m talking about the group here not AK. People have already commented such and such is a firefighter and they always look out for the watch etc etc. Not dismissing it, but if it came out they were all at different venues, drunk trying to find each other- whilst I personally wouldn’t care as it’s a Xmas do, some would.

 

[Elainera]

Yes I’m sure it is inherently built into you and even inebriated , he would possibly be more aware but if he is not in the water ( I despise typing that ), then where is he?

It's a paradox isn't it. The river seems the most likely location yet at the same time a very unlikely scenario for Anthony.