Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #5 *M. Bridger guilty*

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #761
Well you couldn't get it more wrong than Ms Burley on Sky!!

Just for the record there's a soundclip on this below.

http://www.forvo.com/word/machynlleth/

Seriously? That's how you say it? I played it at least a dozen times, and couldn't make heads or tails of it. My 12 year old (the one who's working on a Scottish accent for an upcoming performance of Macbeth) was MOST fascinated by it.

The only Welsh I know is Taliesin - of Frank LLoyd Wright fame, and I'm likely as not pronouncing that wrong too.
 
  • #762
he has been charged with the murder and abduction of a five year old child and the police have the legal burden to bring those charges. Even if he is found not guilty that is not the same as being innocent.

Hmmm...I think it the UK most would think an 'not guilty' verdict means they are innocent of the crime...
Different to an aquittal yes, but there are definately plenty of 'innocent' found
Not Guilty!!

Jeez....thinks it's time for more tea!! :great:
 
  • #763
clutchbag,
my point is that law enforcement ARRESTED this guy. he is CHARGED. That means they have goods on this guy. They have evidence he murdered a five year old child or he would not be charged with that crime.

The legal machinations have yet to happen. And we will not see the evidence until that happens. Until then and until otherwise noted by law enforcement, they have the suspect in custody.

Heck the guy hasn't even entered a plea yet has he? Once his defense attorney gets the discovery this guy may well decide to plead out.

(depending on how your legal system works... seen it happen plenty of times in the US)

I know what you are saying but being charged and having evidence has in the past proven to be false, nothing on the public arena has pointed to him being the possible perpetrator of the murder of a five yr old

The man is NOT guilty just cos hes been charged

Eta greenpalm it doesnt fit much
im of the firm opinion hes a patsy
 
  • #764
respectfully snipped:
I do think, despite warnings from the mods, that today we have strayed too far into discussing the accused.

You know that if you find a particular post in violation of Websleuth's terms of service, you can click the little red triangle in the upper right hand corner of the post to alert mods to the particular post. You will then have an opportunity to explain what your concern is in a message to the mods.

If there's a problem, they'll come along like angels and delete or snip out offending bits.

Of course it's best if we all attempt to post within the guidelines to begin with, because the mods are volunteers and they're busy and if we get too unruly they've been known to close a thread.

But they ask us repeatedly not to try to police the threads ourselves, but to just click the alert button and move on.

Thanks.
 
  • #765
In the UK under the Human Rights Act passed in 1998, one is innocent until proven guilty, as far as I am aware.

"The right to a fair trial and no punishment without law - you are innocent until proven guilty. If accused of a crime, you have the right to hear the evidence against you, in a court of law."

http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/human-rights/human-rights/the-human-rights-act/index.php

That should read "presumed innocent until proven guilty".

If you're guilty, you've been guilty ever since you committed the crime.
 
  • #766
The so-called "Scottish verdict" has been used as a means of taking this into account: not proven (Wiki)

O/T but is there any kind of equivalent to "not proven" in the US?
 
  • #767
Hmmm...I think it the UK most would think an 'not guilty' verdict means they are innocent of the crime...
Different to an aquittal yes, but there are definately plenty of 'innocent' found
Not Guilty!!

I am pretty sure that a 'not guilty' verdict and an acquittal are exactly the same thing, in England at least.
 
  • #768
  • #769
I'm kind of thinking similarly. I just can't understand what happened. If he did it, why? If it was an accident of some kind - why won't he tell where she is. It's just baffling. It doesn't fit what I think of as "typical."

It really is a lot like Breanne Rodriguez's case - but that guy, Shawn Morgan, once he realized he was caught, told them where to find her body. And in her case we learned that he'd sent bomb threats to a former place of employment and had at least one other past incident which would seem to indicate that he was a bit off his rocker.

I follow a lot of these cases and they follow predictable patterns. Sometimes I lose interest in them very quickly because the motive and reasoning are not mysterious. Still sad and horrible, of course.

As an example, the typical step parent (usually step father, but not always) kills step-child in a fit-of-rage type case happens every week it seems. (Kyron Horman - was an usual case because it appears to have been calculated and extensively premeditated - and yes I know his step mother is still only the alleged killer)

Another example of a "type" of child related case would be the creepy uncle, "pal" or step father who molests a child for years and somehow shames the child to keep it all quiet. (Jerry Sandusky, all the priests)

Parents kill their own children far more often than strangers do - and it's even quite common for the parents to then try to point the finger at someone else (an invented stranger) to cover it up. Open cases that IMHO fit this type are: Jhessye Shockley, Aliyah Lundsford, Ayla Reynolds, Lisa Irwin (Now it's possible that one or more of those will turn out to actually be stranger abductions, but I'm not betting on it. We can talk about that on those threads - not here, I'm just trying to make a point about Mark Bridger)

I just can't make this case fit that's why I keep considering alternate theories:

1. They have the wrong guy.
2. He has lost his mind, and gone round the bend.
3. It was some kind of "accident" and he tried to cover it up: For example, he was drunk; it was a botched kidnapping (but why, what was he after?); he hit her with the car (But why not tell us where she is?); he took her for a short ride and then let her out to walk and she never made it home… I dunno I'm just guessing - still trying to make those ideas fit what we know, and they don't fit either - I know that, but my head keeps taking them out for a spin anyway because him simply plucking her off the street in front of neighbor children and murdering her doesn't fit either. No need to refute any of that - it's rhetorical and I can't support any of it.


I just can't make sense of it. I do hope that we are able to learn more illuminating information after the trial.

For those of you who theorize that someone else may be involved - without naming names, what sort of person would conspire to kill a 5 year old?

I was one who originally thought (hoped) there was someone else involved but with 'abduction' not Murder....I had a 'nicer' theory that April was taken to be passed on and was held up in a small cottage somewhere in one of the valleys!! Sadly this theory has ebbed away with time......I would give anything for that to be the case now though! :please:
 
  • #770
I know what you are saying but being charged and having evidence has in the past proven to be false, nothing on the public arena has pointed to him being the possible perpetrator of the murder of a five yr old

The man is NOT guilty just cos hes been charged

Eta greenpalm it doesnt fit much
im of the firm opinion hes a patsy

okay so maybe I should ask it this way... do you have much faith in your system of Law Enforcement?

I do in ours here in the US.

There seems to be a lack of faith in their investigation and what they have used to charge this guy. Why is that?
 
  • #771
O/T but is there any kind of equivalent to "not proven" in the US?

you are either: guilty
not guilty
hung jury (which means you can be tried again)
 
  • #772
okay so maybe I should ask it this way... do you have much faith in your system of Law Enforcement?
After the riots here last year, I would say no from me.
 
  • #773
Seriously? That's how you say it? I played it at least a dozen times, and couldn't make heads or tails of it. My 12 year old (the one who's working on a Scottish accent for an upcoming performance of Macbeth) was MOST fascinated by it.

The only Welsh I know is Taliesin - of Frank LLoyd Wright fame, and I'm likely as not pronouncing that wrong too.

Well you can ask others but I have asked my Welsh cousins and they are in Agreement..

I will however say that I truly believe the Welsh have a mouth to go with the accent...what I mean by that is that some outsiders no matter how hard just can't get the pronunciation...It isn't the easiest language to learn, but lovely to listen to....especially in Mid-Wales, nice and soft!!

Talking of your 12 yr old doing the Scottish accent The 'Mach' in Machynlleth is similar to Scottish, except it's more of a throat sound if that makes any sense!
Ironically My son is rehearsing the Role of Bottom from Mid Summer Nights Dream and his drama teacher has told him to do it with a West Country Accent!!! Not sure it's what Shakespeare Intended but hey ho!!! :rocker:
 
  • #774
:banghead:

okay so maybe I should ask it this way... do you have much faith in your system of Law Enforcement?

I do in ours here in the US.

There seems to be a lack of faith in their investigation and what they have used to charge this guy. Why is that?

I do trust LE for the most part
Do I believe inthem as god? No way, they have screwed up so many times and there is no evidence that they havent here
I personally dont believe MB is a child murderer thats just my opinion

eta seeing and listening to that cps guy on the tv me me think i wouldnt trust him as far as i could throw him, awful cold guy not inspiring inn the least in any way shape or form, witchfinder general was the impression i got!!

post 692 on page 38
 
  • #775
After the riots here last year, I would say no from me.

Paddy, is that why you think everyone is second guessing that they have arrested the right man for the crime?

Here in the US they have so much burden before charges can be brought that, frankly, when they are finally brought down it is like.... well that is done. (for the most part.. of course you also always have to depend on the minds of the jurors but they usually get it right)

Do you guys have anything in the UK like a grand jury form of indictment or some sort of legal body that the evidence is presented to for indictment/charge like we do? Some states in the US require indictment by grand jury (esp for murder charges). I always feel (personally) more confident when an indictment comes from the grand jury because it means that a body of citizens have looked at the charging evidence and deemed it worthy.

Was just wondering if you have any sort of thing like that in the UK (or what the process is to reach the charging point if you will)
 
  • #776
I am pretty sure that a 'not guilty' verdict and an acquittal are exactly the same thing, in England at least.

Yes, I thought similarly but apparently an acquittal also means No case to Answer, No evidence found against the suspect....

Goodness knows, It is getting more confusing by the second. And i'm getting lost amongst different countries having different terms and meanings????

HELP................................:floorlaugh:
 
  • #777
:banghead:



I do trust LE for the most part
Do I believe inthem as god? No way, they have screwed up so many times and there is no evidence that they havent here
I personally dont believe MB is a child murderer thats just my opinion

eta seeing and listening to that cps guy on the tv me me think i wouldnt trust him as far as i could throw him, awful cold guy not inspiring inn the least in any way shape or form, witchfinder general was the impression i got!!

Just to be clear... I never intimated that I think of US LE as gods ;-)

I will say however... they are pretty damn good:rocker:
 
  • #778
Yes, I thought similarly but apparently an acquittal also means No case to Answer, No evidence found against the suspect....

Goodness knows, It is getting more confusing by the second. And i'm getting lost amongst different countries having different terms and meanings????

HELP................................:floorlaugh:

Hey dots.... pass the tea! :cheer:
 
  • #779
Yes, I thought similarly but apparently an acquittal also means No case to Answer, No evidence found against the suspect....

Goodness knows, It is getting more confusing by the second. And i'm getting lost amongst different countries having different terms and meanings????

HELP................................:floorlaugh:

But isn't the no case to answer determined by the CPS? i.e. Once the CPS approve charging someone, it's past that stage? Case then goes to trial and the end result is Guilty or Not Guilty. Or possible hung jury and retrial
 
  • #780
Just to be clear... I never intimated that I think of US LE as gods ;-)

I will say however... they are pretty damn good:rocker:

they are thats why we love them in the main

This case has too many questions in the air
which might point to police putting all their eggs in the wrong basket
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
128
Guests online
2,827
Total visitors
2,955

Forum statistics

Threads
632,224
Messages
18,623,714
Members
243,061
Latest member
Kvxbyte
Back
Top