Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #6 *M. Bridger guilty*

[Clutchbag]

... Davies, Edwards, Parry, Evans,

There's one word for this: inbreeding. I'm Welsh so I can get away with saying it. In most of these rural areas, you'll find that people are related to each other in more than one way. 2nd cousins, 3rd cousins once removed, etc.

LOl rather you than me, forgot about edwards and davies know a few
Lovely people though, they nuff talk fast though more than the irish

 

[Cherwell]

Now why would a neighbour say that, unless the press are telling porkies?

It was unattributed. "Some say ...." It is most likely a paraphrase born out of misunderstanding and unfamiliarity with the area.

 

[Clutchbag]

But does it take you to a specific back garden of a house?

No, that could be cos im on an ipad and just saw a general aerial map and nothing specific, why dont u spit it out

 

[Cendlaetholwr]

Now why would a neighbour say that, unless the press are telling porkies?

Routine for the press to embroider what people tell them. There are alleys in the town, just nowhere near the estate.

There's also a fishfarm quite nearby the estate, where the south Dulas joins the Dyfi. Again, I've emailed LE about both.

 

[Clutchbag]

But does it take you to a specific back garden of a house?

Which one,<modsnip>

Anyone else know whose gardenit is fromthe map andwhat it means?

 

[BritsKate]

I'm sure you're right in family law cases and other crimes. I'm specifically talking about murder trials in the UK in the last 20 years. I'm struggling to think of one.

Just saying it is extremely rare. And I want to believe that the police wouldn't put these kids and their families through it if they have other evidence.

I honestly believe they would. This is the no-body murder of a child. CPS will take no risks here. They'll build their case as rock solid as humanly possible with as much evidence as is available to them because, unlike most cases, they have the added burden of proving a victim no longer alive.

And yes, children witnesses in homicides is rare - thank heavens, but not a legal precedent. In 2008-9 449 children under the age of 10 were witnesses to offences committed against others. (This is believed to be an under estimate by the NSPCC though.) The defence will be banking on the jury to outright discredit this child's testimony on the basis she is a child (if not to bar her testimony altogether). I think that's a mistake having studied significant scientific data regarding the veracity of child witnesses. JMO

As an aside, if it helps at all, significant protective measures are enacted by the courts for child witnesses.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8375293.stm

http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads...ieving-best-evidence-criminal-proceedings.pdf

 

[Marymead]

Routine for the press to embroider what people tell them. There are alleys in the town, just nowhere near the estate.

There's also a fishfarm quite nearby the estate, where the south Dulas joins the Dyfi. Again, I've emailed LE about both.

Well done, let's hope it is of help to them.

 

[jigzy]

re. narrow alleyway:

IMO, this alleyway, on right of image, would be the shortest path (suitable for cycling on) from the Jones' house to reach the garages.

http://goo.gl/maps/YNOUD

pans around to here:

http://goo.gl/maps/ExdhX

Follow path from Jones' house in aerial view:
(Jones' house at bottom with bush on the green in front. Garages near top where there's a red car)

http://goo.gl/maps/5DfBP


ETA: It is my understanding (from the vimeo link to the 2 girls speaking about seeing A for the last time) that it is around this alleyway by the small gate, that A poked her head, and then disappeared. The 2 girls would have been in the alley and A around the corner in the garages area as my 2nd link here.

ETA2: Here's the exit of the alley at end of 2nd pale house:
http://goo.gl/maps/U3587

 

[Untidyhedgehog]

Which one, <modsnip>

Anyone else know whose gardenit is fromthe map andwhat it means?

Nope sorry I can't tell either :0/ If I click on the link and zoom in I end up in the middle of the Irish sea.

 

[Clutchbag]

nope sorry i can't tell either :0/ if i click on the link and zoom in i end up in the middle of the irish sea.

lol......

 

[Clutchbag]

So paddy
Whose garden is it?????

 

[Cendlaetholwr]

Well done, let's hope it is of help to them.

It's now in the incident room. They'll have a log (and map) of all the places searched. I would be surprised if nobody else hadn't suggested these places, but we can't take it for granted that they have. I've been racking my brains about other places, but nowhere else immediately springs to mind - yet.

 

[PADDYWHACK]

No, that could be cos im on an ipad and just saw a general aerial map and nothing specific, why dont u spit it out

Hang on my poor old fingers are tapping away. I have taken screenshots and will upload them in a second.

 

[PADDYWHACK]

I spotted this vehicle near to garages and these people in the back garden

<modsnip>

 

[Marymead]

It's now in the incident room. They'll have a log (and map) of all the places searched. I would be surprised if nobody else hadn't suggested these places, but we can't take it for granted that they have. I've been racking my brains about other places, but nowhere else immediately springs to mind - yet.

Never take anything for granted

 

[jigzy]

Paddywhack - I don't get your point. The vehicle is not a LRD and the people are standing in a garden. ??

ETA: The alley leads to ED's house opposite the garages on the other side of the road. http://goo.gl/maps/vSvOg

 

[PADDYWHACK]

Paddywhack - I don't get your point. The vehicle is not a LRD and the people are standing in a garden. ??

ETA: The alley leads to ED's house opposite the garages on the other side of the road. http://goo.gl/maps/vSvOg

We don't know for sure that it was a left hand drive. If the witness didn't see the vehicle occupant, how do you know April wasn't lifted in by the driver? The other image looks like April's mother, I just spotted it while looking for alleys.

 

[Clio]

re. narrow alleyway:

IMO, this alleyway, on right of image, would be the shortest path (suitable for cycling on) from the Jones' house to reach the garages.

http://goo.gl/maps/YNOUD

pans around to here:

http://goo.gl/maps/ExdhX

Follow path from Jones' house in aerial view:
(Jones' house at bottom with bush on the green in front. Garages near top where there's a red car)

http://goo.gl/maps/5DfBP


ETA: It is my understanding (from the vimeo link to the 2 girls speaking about seeing A for the last time) that it is around this alleyway by the small gate, that A poked her head, and then disappeared. The 2 girls would have been in the alley and A around the corner in the garages area as my 2nd link here.

ETA2: Here's the exit of the alley at end of 2nd pale house:
http://goo.gl/maps/U3587

Would the blue arrow on the attached ariel photo be where the gate/alley is on your photos?

 

[Cendlaetholwr]

We don't know for sure that it was a left hand drive. If the witness didn't see the vehicle occupant, how do you know April wasn't lifted in by the driver? The other image looks like April's mother, I just spotted it while looking for alleys.

LRD = LandRover Discovery. The vehicle in the image you uploaded is a Toyota, and a RHD one.

 

[greenpalm]

That seems to be an American site and it says that 53% of child abduction murders are committed by a killer who is a stranger to the victim.

In the UK the situation is totally different. According to a study published only last week in the 'British Journal of Social Work', homicidal assailants of children younger than 5 (and AJ was only just 5), are much more likely to come from within the same family.

In the UK, it is about 15 times more likely that if a child is murdered, the killer will have been acquainted with him or her.

But you may be comparing Apples to Oranges. It is my understanding that child murders are far more likely to be committed by family. I don't have a link, it's just part of my knowledge base from hanging out here on WS. Since the US statistic specifies, "abduction murders" I'd say that's a subset of all child murders. Parents don't need to abduct their children in order to murder them, unless they are non custodial.

So, 53% of abduction murders are committed by strangers, but it says nothing about the percentage of ALL child murders that are done by strangers. The number is quite small. The UK stat you give refers to all murders. The stats for the US for all child murders are similar, most are committed by people known to the child.

Please can I just confirm, that apart from a 7 year old girl, NO ONE AT ALL actually saw April ever get into ANY car whether dark, white or with pink spots?

Confirmed. That's the only eyewitness.

I believe I was beaten to this, but the way I read it, young ED was there and saw the abduction as well. 2 child witnesses, 7 year old MH, and 5 year old ED.