GUILTY UK - Arrest in 1987 'Bedsit Murders' of Wendy Knell, 25, and Caroline Pierce, 20, in Kent

  • #381
I don't think an offenders MO remains the exact same over their offending time, they may keep certain things they do each time but their will be variations to their offending as victims behave differently thus the crime and crime scene differ due to the individual victims behaviour,

BTK killed a family of 5, he attacked and killed single women, he attacked a male and female victim, he attacked with children in the home and without, he shot, stabbed and strangled his victims, he took a victim out of their home when they were deceased to take photos in church, his MO changed due to circumstances, as did his choice of victim

GSK used differing methods to kill his victims, his offending patterns were very rigid except when he had to change them due to behaviour of his victims, some victims complied to he could carry out his crimes exactly how he liked to, some victims fought back so he had to do things differently,

they are just two examples of why their is often variation in MO and how the crime happened, their were similarities in the above serial killers but sometimes MO has to change due to circumstances

so Fuller may have other victims who didn't exactly match the MO of his two known murders,

Yes M.O. Is likely to change over time as the offender learns from experience and possibly study.

What does not change is the signature, which is not necessary to commit the crime or to disrupt the evidential trail.

It is something in the psyche of the offender and reflects the entrenched fantasy that the offender has about his victims. In the case of DF, the need for post mortem sexual activity.
 
  • #382
Fuller was quite dumb in that he left his DNA at both scenes. I know for a fact that his DNA was left on clothing and intimately. Not to mention that he had a specific preference with regards to a certain sexual act. It's for that reason alone the police back in the 80s knew it was the same person with regards to both Wendy and Caroline's murders...they didn't need DNA to confirm that it was the same guy. He literally left his autograph at both scenes.

His MO was very specific and easily identifiable. The police would have easily matched him to other crimes way before we all got whiff of his arrest.

However, without a DNA link to other crimes OR him talking and admitting other crimes, the police have nothing else on him.
I think he was anything but dumb, he changed MO from first to second murder and left her body in water hoping to leave nothing to tie her to him, which is the reason why second murder he abducted her and took her away from where he abducted her, he possibly realised the errors he made during first murder and tried to eliminate them in second, I think the publicity surrounding murders scared him and may have led to him looking into gaining access to dead bodies in other ways which is when he may have started to look for work where their was a morgue, I doubt many murders or criminals even knew of DNA in 1987 or the way it would come to be used in solving crimes and pre DNA I don't think Fuller envisaged the future role it would play in his arrest,

he then either by luck or design (ie he deliberately got work in a hospital - I think deliberate) he gained access to victims without having to murder more, it being more likely he would be arrested taking live victims over having access to dead victims which is what he wanted,

he then for decades was able to commit horrific crimes without (as far as we know) raising any suspicions, that to me shows someone who is far from dumb, the amount of people he had fooled, the way he had engineered himself into a position in the hospital that gave him unfettered access to continue for decades,

it was only due to LE continuing to revisit the murder cases, and then good forensic science (of which he knew nothing when he murdered) and then the familial match tying him to the murders that he was caught,

he would have continued to work in the hospital victimising other families with his depravity for as long as they would let him work, he must have realised that at 67 he couldn't carry on forever,
 
  • #383
I think he was anything but dumb, he changed MO from first to second murder and left her body in water hoping to leave nothing to tie her to him, which is the reason why second murder he abducted her and took her away from where he abducted her, he possibly realised the errors he made during first murder and tried to eliminate them in second, I think the publicity surrounding murders scared him and may have led to him looking into gaining access to dead bodies in other ways which is when he may have started to look for work where their was a morgue, I doubt many murders or criminals even knew of DNA in 1987 or the way it would come to be used in solving crimes and pre DNA I don't think Fuller envisaged the future role it would play in his arrest,

he then either by luck or design (ie he deliberately got work in a hospital - I think deliberate) he gained access to victims without having to murder more, it being more likely he would be arrested taking live victims over having access to dead victims which is what he wanted,

he then for decades was able to commit horrific crimes without (as far as we know) raising any suspicions, that to me shows someone who is far from dumb, the amount of people he had fooled, the way he had engineered himself into a position in the hospital that gave him unfettered access to continue for decades,

it was only due to LE continuing to revisit the murder cases, and then good forensic science (of which he knew nothing when he murdered) and then the familial match tying him to the murders that he was caught,

he would have continued to work in the hospital victimising other families with his depravity for as long as they would let him work, he must have realised that at 67 he couldn't carry on forever,

Yes, it’s difficult to assume what he knew or thought back when he committed those crimes.
 
  • #384
Fuller was quite dumb in that he left his DNA at both scenes. I know for a fact that his DNA was left on clothing and intimately. Not to mention that he had a specific preference with regards to a certain sexual act. It's for that reason alone the police back in the 80s knew it was the same person with regards to both Wendy and Caroline's murders...they didn't need DNA to confirm that it was the same guy. He literally left his autograph at both scenes.

His MO was very specific and easily identifiable. The police would have easily matched him to other crimes way before we all got whiff of his arrest.

However, without a DNA link to other crimes OR him talking and admitting other crimes, the police have nothing else on him.
I think he was anything but dumb, he changed MO from first to second murder and left her body in water hoping to leave nothing to tie her to him, which is the reason why second murder he abducted her and took her away from where he abducted her, he possibly realised the errors he made during first murder and tried to eliminate them in second, I think the publicity surrounding murders scared him and may have led to him looking into gaining access to dead bodies in other ways which is when he may have started to look for work where their was a morgue, I doubt many murders or criminals even knew of DNA in 1987 or the way it would come to be used in solving crimes and pre DNA I don't think Fuller envisaged the future role it would play in his arrest,

he then either by luck or design (ie he deliberately got work in a hospital - I think deliberate) he gained access to victims without having to murder more, it being more likely he would be arrested taking live victims over having access to dead victims which is what he wanted,

he then for decades was able to commit horrific crimes without (as far as we know) raising any suspicions, that to me shows someone who is far from dumb, the amount of people he had fooled, the way he had engineered himself into a position in the hospital that gave him unfettered access to continue for decades,

it was only due to LE continuing to revisit the murder cases, and then good forensic science (of which he knew nothing when he murdered) and then the familial match tying him to the
Yes, it’s difficult to assume what he knew or thought back when he committed those crimes.

I think much can be deduced/assumed or opined about behaviour, and why we do things. I am now wondering how much Fuller is cooperating with his pre sentence report, he seemed unwilling to go into any depth with LE in his interviews.
 
  • #385
  • #386
Timeline for David Fuller

With a special thank you mention to a journalist at the Telegraph newspaper who has also compiled a timeline in the following article. ‘Bedsit killer’ murdered two women and had sex with at least 100 corpses in mortuaries

1954: David Fuller was born in Dover, Kent. He was one of three children, with an older brother and younger sister.
They moved to South Africa when he was two or three for a short period of time.

The family later moved to Hampshire area and Fuller attended Portsea Secondary Modern between 1966 and 1971.

According to the Telegraph timeline Fuller had previous criminal convictions for theft and arson as a teenager. However, any DNA records from this period did not bring his later conviction. (He was caught and convicted of the 'Bedsit Murders' after police linked an unrelated crime scene DNA from his brother).

He pleaded guilty to three domestic burglaries at Portsmouth Crown Court, with 23 other offences taken into consideration, in 1973 and a further offence in 1977, with three other offences taken into consideration, but he was never jailed.

Fuller trained as to be an to be an electrical fitter at HM Dockyard in Portsmouth.

Fuller told the court that he went through a four year apprenticeship with the Ministry of Defence.

Fuller's first wife was a woman called 'Gillian', second wife Sally and his third and current wife was 'Mala

1972: Marriage to Gillian x in Portsmouth, South Hampshire. They had two children together but the marriage soon ended after an affair.
Bedsit Killer's kids shock at dad's crimes as they insist 'we didn't know'

Court hears David Fuller 'regularly cheated on wife' - live murder trial updates
Quote: David said he had a good relationship with children and was in regular contact with them but can’t visit them often as they live far away.

He said he would stay with a friend in Tonbridge whilst doing odd jobs for people he knew and worked for an electronics company in Tonbridge high street.

1983: Marriage to Sally x in Tunbridge Wells, Kent. He then met Sally in Tonbridge, having moved from Portsmouth, in the early 1980s, marrying at Tunbridge Wells register office, with a church blessing in the nearby village of Speldhurst.

Necrophiliac murder accused was 'kind and gentle'
Quote: Fuller added that he came to Tunbridge Wells from Portsmouth and began working for an electronics company, called Ashdown Controls.

Mid 1980's: Fuller and his wife Sally who has since died lived in a staff house at Broomhill Bank, a school for girls with learning difficulties.

Mid 1980's: David was an avid photographer and saw himself as the official 'unofficial' photographer for Cutting Crew, who were doing a lot of gigging at the time.
David Fuller 'regularly cheated on his wife', murder trial hears
"He would follow them and take hundreds of pictures of them.....They (Fuller and his wife) followed them everywhere and went to every gig. They must have spent hundreds."

1987: Fuller was responsible for the sexually motivated murders of Wendy Knell, 20, and 25-year-old Caroline Pierce in Tunbridge Wells.

1989 onwards: Fuller worked as a hospital electrician and maintenance engineer in two hospitals. He sexually assaulted up to 100 corpses in at the two locations - the now-closed Kent and Sussex Hospital (until 2010) and then Tunbridge Wells Hospital. The victims, all female, included three children and a number of women aged over 85.

1990: Fuller has an affair with a nurse he meets at the hospital sports and social club
David Fuller accused of 1987 murder of two women 'regularly cheated on wife', court hears | Daily Mail Online
Quote: In a statement read to the court, Susan Marjoram said: 'I thought he was serious about us. We would meet at the social club and he would come back to my address and we were intimate.'He never stayed the night and although we had sex there was never anything kinky'.

Fuller's hobbies included cycling, photography and being an unofficial photographer for the group, Cutting Crew.

2000 to 2020: Fuller lived in Heathfield with a new wife Mayla Fuller
David Fuller: 'Distraught' wife of killer who abused corpses in mortuaries says she left him after arrest

December 2020: Fuller's family home in Heathfield, East Sussex, was raided in the early hours of December 3 2020.
After Fuller's arrest in December, police uncovered hard drives and images hidden at his home which showed that over "an extended period of time" he used his access to the mortuary "to carry out acts of sexual penetration of female corpses", the prosecutor said.

November 2021: David Fuller pleaded guilty to the 1987 murders of Wendy Knell and Caroline Pierce. Wendy Knell aged 25 was discovered sexually assaulted and beaten to death at her bedsit in Tunbridge Wells.
He also pleaded guilty to the murder of Caroline Pierce, a 20-year-old waitress, went missing from her bedsit in nearby Grosvenor Park, only for her body to be found weeks later nearly 40 miles away on Romney Marsh. Being close to his grandparents, he would often spend holidays with them on the Kent coast close to Romney Marsh so was familiar with the area.
Mr Atkinson QC said that the prosecution's case is that Fuller killed and sexually assaulted the women to satisfy his desire.
"His desire for sexual gratification through the observation and identification of vulnerable women, gaining control of them, and then indulging his depraved sexual predilections in relation to them, all provides the explanation in relation to their murder.

The containing trial of the former hospital electrician is believed to be worst case of necrophilia in British legal history.

The court heard that between 2008 and 2020, Fuller had filmed and photographed himself sexually abusing the bodies of dozens of women and girls at the two Tunbridge Wells hospital mortuaries where he had worked. He was able to access through his job with door entry as the maintenance supervisor.

"After the horrific abuse, he used Facebook to track down the people he'd defiled and learn about their lives during a spine-chilling spree of crimes that went on from 2008 to November 2020".
Bedsit Murderer had sex with 99 corpses as young as 9 & killed 2 women

The trial continues.
At a guess Fuller may have gone to live in South Africa after his birth from 1957 onwards for a few years if his family had as some kind of naval background
Forces Reunited - The Voice of the Military Community

As Fuller later was an apprentice for HM dockyard in Portsmouth this makes me wonder.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ke...ac-murder-accused-was-kind-and-gentle-256806/

He said he was born in Deal in 1954 to parents Evelyn and Raymond and they later moved to South Africa when he was two or three but then returned to Portsmouth.
 
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  • #387
At a guess Fuller may have gone to live in South Africa after his birth from 1957 onwards for a few years if his family had as some kind of naval background
Forces Reunited - The Voice of the Military Community

As Fuller later was an apprentice for HM dockyard in Portsmouth this makes me wonder.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ke...ac-murder-accused-was-kind-and-gentle-256806/

He said he was born in Deal in 1954 to parents Evelyn and Raymond and they later moved to South Africa when he was two or three but then returned to Portsmouth.

Both Deal and Portsmouth were bases for the Royal Marine Band Service during the 1950's and beyond. Not forgetting the terrible IRA bombing at Deal on 22 September 1989, which killed elven Royal Marine Musicians.

Portsmouth was the base for the 'Royal Band', which had a special connection with the HMS Britannia.

Maybe DF's father was a Royal Marine who was at the band schools. The photo of DF on the cycling excursion shows him as an apparently tall, slender, yet powerfully built individual. An inherited gene that would most likely lend itself well to the rigours of RM training. JMOO
 
  • #388
Fuller’s family were from Dover, Folkestone, Hythe areas. I believe his paternal side was the Dover, Deal and Folkestone area whilst the maternal side was Hythe. He apparently spent a lot of time with his maternal side of the family hence his familiarity with Romney Marsh.

His father was in the Royal Navy and I believe he died aged 40 in Portsmouth.

Fuller, his parents and a brother went to South Africa because of the Simonstown agreement. I suspect his father’s role was technical in nature and he was assisting in the withdrawal of the RN from SA.

Simonstown Agreement - Wikipedia
 
  • #389
  • #390
I did read an article on Kent Online about a lady who worked as an NHS courier many years back. She once gave Fuller a lift somewhere and had a cup of tea with him. She mentioned that the NHS should pay out “trauma money” to those who worked with Fuller.
I guess he was one of the few people who loved his job and treated holidays as an unpleasant break :)
 
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  • #391
I guess he was one of the few people who loved his job and treated holidays as unpleasant break :)

The article did mention that he was the hospital's "on-call" electrician and another mention of him drinking tea with the porters at 3am etc.

I'd imagine that would explain what his neighbours said about how he'd go out in his car during the early hours. I think @SaintGertrude pointed that out as a reason.

It does make me wonder if he ever pretended to be "called out" and so his current wife would be oblivious to his prowling antics. I can't imagine that he gave up "prowling" in 1987...it must have continued.

Here's the article I had previously mentioned:

'I felt sick after learning I had been alone with necrophiliac'
 
  • #392
The article did mention that he was the hospital's "on-call" electrician and another mention of him drinking tea with the porters at 3am etc.

I'd imagine that would explain what his neighbours said about how he'd go out in his car during the early hours. I think @SaintGertrude pointed that out as a reason.

It does make me wonder if he ever pretended to be "called out" and so his current wife would be oblivious to his prowling antics. I can't imagine that he gave up "prowling" in 1987...it must have continued.

Here's the article I had previously mentioned:

'I felt sick after learning I had been alone with necrophiliac'
When something looks too good to be true ( a perfect worker) it usually isnt :)
 
  • #393
The article did mention that he was the hospital's "on-call" electrician and another mention of him drinking tea with the porters at 3am etc.

I'd imagine that would explain what his neighbours said about how he'd go out in his car during the early hours. I think @SaintGertrude pointed that out as a reason.

It does make me wonder if he ever pretended to be "called out" and so his current wife would be oblivious to his prowling antics. I can't imagine that he gave up "prowling" in 1987...it must have continued.

Here's the article I had previously mentioned:

'I felt sick after learning I had been alone with necrophiliac'
I wonder what the wooded area is mentioned behind the hospital :eek:
 
  • #394
Fuller’s family were from Dover, Folkestone, Hythe areas. I believe his paternal side was the Dover, Deal and Folkestone area whilst the maternal side was Hythe. He apparently spent a lot of time with his maternal side of the family hence his familiarity with Romney Marsh.

His father was in the Royal Navy and I believe he died aged 40 in Portsmouth.

Fuller, his parents and a brother went to South Africa because of the Simonstown agreement. I suspect his father’s role was technical in nature and he was assisting in the withdrawal of the RN from SA.

Simonstown Agreement - Wikipedia
One of the newspaper articles mentions a childhood trauma so losing his dad was probably what this means. This will rule out his family being the tenants of an old cottage in a state of disrepair near Tunbridge Wells Common which I commented on briefly in an earlier post.
 
  • #395
I wonder what the wooded area is mentioned behind the hospital :eek:
Robingate Wood is not far from the hospital but thinking that the woods where he drove his colleague was more local to the hospital.

'I felt sick after learning I had been alone with necrophiliac'
Quote: "I remember one time driving out around the back of the hospital and he came out of a wooded area. I just thought what a weirdo. I thought what the hell are you doing? Maybe he was just stretching his legs, but you don't know".
 

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  • #396
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  • #397
One of the newspaper articles mentions a childhood trauma so losing his dad was probably what this means.

I believe that was a reference to some sort of sexual abuse which he was using as some sort of justification for his crimes.
 
  • #398
I believe that was a reference to some sort of sexual abuse which he was using as some sort of justification for his crimes.
My thoughts exactly!
 
  • #399
I wonder what the wooded area is mentioned behind the hospital :eek:
Pembury woods surround the hospital. Before the new PFI hospital was built on the site it was called Pembury hospital. It was a former workhouse and a very old creepy building especially at night. It was several different blocks and later prefab buildings added. It was Maternity ,womens and childrens. Nurses home also on site in one of the old buildings. There was also a psych unit there at one time. You could walk straight into the woods from various points on the site at one time. I had all 3 of my babies there and several operations.
 
  • #400
Pembury woods surround the hospital. Before the new PFI hospital was built on the site it was called Pembury hospital. It was a former workhouse and a very old creepy building especially at night. It was several different blocks and later prefab buildings added. It was Maternity ,womens and childrens. Nurses home also on site in one of the old buildings. There was also a psych unit there at one time. You could walk straight into the woods from various points on the site at one time. I had all 3 of my babies there and several operations.
Thank you for your insight as a local Jackal67. It would be interesting to look at the woods on google maps. I hope there are no other victims of Fuller's murder sprees :eek:
The papers mention that Fuller often visited his Grandparents on his dads side who lived near the Romney Marsh
Smiling face of the monster behind the notorious 1987 Bedsit Murders
On his mothers side he would have been visiting Maidstone up until 1992 and his family also have a strong connection to Folkestone. After 1992 he had no Grandparents left on his mothers side to visit. I am not sure when he lost the Grandparents on his fathers side of the family.
 

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