GUILTY UK - Arrest in 1987 'Bedsit Murders' of Wendy Knell, 25, and Caroline Pierce, 20, in Kent

[Chest_Rockwell]

This is my first post, though I have been a lurker for a while. Here is a link to the local newspaper in Portsmouth which documents his charges in 1973 and 1977.
Burglar spared jail at Portsmouth court went on to abuse 99 corpses in mortuaries.

Welcome.

Serious enough to go to crown court. I always thought magistrates usually dealt with burglary.

He would have been 18/19 during 1973 so I wonder how that impacted an MOD apprenticeship? Did they check? Did they know? Or did they care? I wonder if 1977 is more or less when he legged it from Portsmouth to Tonbridge, no doubt his 1st marriage had probably gone sour by that time too.

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

I know I mentioned it before but has anyone been able to find any newspaper articles relating to Fuller’s previous crimes in the 1970s? It must have been reported by local press.

I suspect that would be a trip to Portsmouth library to have a look at the microfiche copies of the local paper from the time.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I suspect that would be a trip to Portsmouth library to have a look at the microfiche copies of the local paper from the time.

Annoyingly the Portsmouth Evening News only goes up to 1959 on the British Newspaper Archive website. Often a valuable piece of info is lurking in these old newspaper items.

 

[OnlyS]

Thanks for the welcome.
Portsmouth News used to do a ‘Court Round Up’ on a weekly basis, but doesn’t go back that far online just from google.
The News has gone through a number of name changes over time, a regular occurrence, so it may not be on the newspaper archives under the original name that @lordpeter said only goes to 1959.
I was also surprised that it was straight to Crown Court, but did wonder whether it was related to the Court buildings as they look around that age of construction. (Trying to find out from local sources).

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Welcome.

Serious enough to go to crown court. I always thought magistrates usually dealt with burglary.

He would have been 18/19 during 1973 so I wonder how that impacted an MOD apprenticeship? Did they check? Did they know? Or did they care? I wonder if 1977 is more or less when he legged it from Portsmouth to Tonbridge, no doubt his 1st marriage had probably gone sour by that time too.

Burglary is an either way offence (Mags or Crown), except there are circumstances when it is indictable only, so must be dealt with at Crown Court. It is likely that the at the defendants first appearance at Magistrates Court the Magistrate will refer the case to Crown Court, unless the circumstances are at the very low end of seriousness.

With so many TIC's accepted by DF, I'm certain it would have been committed to Crown Court as the Magistrates Court has limited sentencing periods, which are currently 6 months for one offence of 12 months for more than one offence.

I suspect pre-employment checks for MOD in the seventies, like most establishments, were somewhat lax! It makes one wonder, if a megalomaniac got anywhere near the nuclear codes

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

Portsmouth Library has the following:



Tempting to take a drive there and have a look

https://www.portsmouth.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/lib-local-history-guide.pdf

 

[SaintGertrude]

Anyone living in Sussex or Kent with a library card should be able to access the following from their local library:-
Historical newspapers

• Times Digital Archive - digital copies of the Times newspaper (London) from 1785 to 2014, on the Gale Databases website
• British Newspaper Archive - Local regional newspapers from Britain and Ireland dating from 1603, access in libraries only, you can make a free account and save your searches

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

With so many TIC's accepted by DF, I'm certain it would have been committed to Crown Court as the Magistrates Court has limited sentencing periods, which are currently 6 months for one offence of 12 months for more than one offence.

I suspect pre-employment checks for MOD in the seventies, like most establishments, were somewhat lax! It makes one wonder, if a megalomaniac got anywhere near the nuclear codes

I had assumed that 1973 was DF’s first brush with the law. However, I’m sure I read last night, one of the links here, that he’d had earlier brushes with the law and namely for arson and bike theft.

I wonder if Crown Court was the only option due to a past of juvenile offending?

Perhaps his “apprenticeship” with the MOD was part of a turning over of a new leaf, aka to avoid a prison sentence. The judge didn’t send him down because DF suddenly had a promising future ahead of him as an MOD Electrician and so was trying his best to be a model citizen.

 

[joe jones]

Kansas man convicted for theft, criminal desecration after conducting illegal autopsies | News | themercury.com

a case of a man carrying out autopsies which he was not qualified to do, he had 1,600 biological samples that the state is now taking control of,

he was a self taught pathology assistant,

seems checks need to be done on who gets access to bodies for autopsies now

 

[OnlyS]

Thanks for the welcome.
Portsmouth News used to do a ‘Court Round Up’ on a weekly basis, but doesn’t go back that far online just from google.
The News has gone through a number of name changes over time, a regular occurrence, so it may not be on the newspaper archives under the original name that @lordpeter said only goes to 1959.
I was also surprised that it was straight to Crown Court, but did wonder whether it was related to the Court buildings as they look around that age of construction. (Trying to find out from local sources).

I realised that the name changes have only happened since I started reading ‘The News’ so not regular before then. And the archive shared brings up all variations of the name when searching. I won’t be able to get down to the archive this week, but trying a few other avenues.

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

I'd imagine a lot of local press archives which are on the BNA only go up to a certain year in order to protect "the living". I note the local rag where I'm from used to have online archives going back to 1997 but they've recently restricted online archives to 2010 at the earliest. Anything else and it's a trip down to the local library.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I realised that the name changes have only happened since I started reading ‘The News’ so not regular before then. And the archive shared brings up all variations of the name when searching. I won’t be able to get down to the archive this week, but trying a few other avenues.

That would be brilliant if you managed to find a way to access these old news articles down in Hampshire.

I would never have known murdered Jean Brook once worked in Camden Road in Tunbridge Wells without someone getting access to the local
Courier newspaper for 1982 on microfiche at the library.

 

[SaintGertrude]

I haven't found anything of interest in the Kent courier archives as yet. Does anyone know if Fuller moved to the area of Tunbridge Wells and Tonbridge because his parents moved to the area or did they remain in Hampshire. I have found a run down cottage near Tunbridge Wells Common and wonder if his family were buying it to renovate.

 

[SaintGertrude]

I know I mentioned it before but has anyone been able to find any newspaper articles relating to Fuller’s previous crimes in the 1970s? It must have been reported by local press.

Do you have a library card. Locals can look at digitalised newspaper archives and do an advanced search under dates and locations.
You may may be required to call in person at your local library and use their computer.
Home | Search the archive | British Newspaper Archive

 

[SaintGertrude]

Bedsit Murders In Tunbridge Wells 1987 OPERATION GREENFINCH - a Freedom of Information request to Kent Police
This is fascinating reading. I possibly shared it before but worth mentioning if I haven't.

 

[SaintGertrude]

At the back of my mind is that could Fuller have had an accomplice which we do not know about. The original e-fit looks nothing like him as the guy in the e-fit photo of TW suspect has dark hair and a moustache. We know from old photos that Fuller had blond hair and sun bleached eyebrows.
The freedom of information request on what do they think they know site pointed out that there may have been two suspects at the time.
I would think that Fuller is not a loner and shares information with others as he had the 14 million images on his hard drive when police raided his home. I wonder how someone in the 1980's/early 1990's would share things as not in the days of internet. My opinion only.

 

[SaintGertrude]

Fuller has now been eliminated from the Portsmouth case another sleuth mentioned
Killer 'eliminated' from murder investigation into Portsmouth barmaid’s death in 1986
He is still being looked into regarding Bedgebury I guess until we hear otherwise
Police investigating morgue monster in connection with two unsolved murders

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Fuller has now been eliminated from the Portsmouth case another sleuth mentioned
Killer 'eliminated' from murder investigation into Portsmouth barmaid’s death in 1986
He is still being looked into regarding Bedgebury I guess until we hear otherwise
Police investigating morgue monster in connection with two unsolved murders

Bedgebury victims left clothed. No reporting of a sexual assault ante or post mortem in either case. I don't believe this fits DF's M.O. as his motivation seems to be a sexual one post mortem.

The murder of Wendy was 'disorganised' in terms of serial killer profiling. For this reason I feel it was DF's first killing, albeit not intended initially.

DF's murder of Caroline demonstrated progression to more of the 'organized' killer attributes, which would have been more challenging to investigate. I feel the mortuary job stopped his need to kill.

 

[joe jones]

I don't think an offenders MO remains the exact same over their offending time, they may keep certain things they do each time but their will be variations to their offending as victims behave differently thus the crime and crime scene differ due to the individual victims behaviour,

BTK killed a family of 5, he attacked and killed single women, he attacked a male and female victim, he attacked with children in the home and without, he shot, stabbed and strangled his victims, he took a victim out of their home when they were deceased to take photos in church, his MO changed due to circumstances, as did his choice of victim

GSK used differing methods to kill his victims, his offending patterns were very rigid except when he had to change them due to behaviour of his victims, some victims complied to he could carry out his crimes exactly how he liked to, some victims fought back so he had to do things differently,

they are just two examples of why their is often variation in MO and how the crime happened, their were similarities in the above serial killers but sometimes MO has to change due to circumstances

so Fuller may have other victims who didn't exactly match the MO of his two known murders,

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

so Fuller may have other victims who didn't exactly match the MO of his two known murders,

Fuller was quite dumb in that he left his DNA at both scenes. I know for a fact that his DNA was left on clothing and intimately. Not to mention that he had a specific preference with regards to a certain sexual act. It's for that reason alone the police back in the 80s knew it was the same person with regards to both Wendy and Caroline's murders...they didn't need DNA to confirm that it was the same guy. He literally left his autograph at both scenes.

His MO was very specific and easily identifiable. The police would have easily matched him to other crimes way before we all got whiff of his arrest.

However, without a DNA link to other crimes OR him talking and admitting other crimes, the police have nothing else on him.