GUILTY UK - Arrest in 1987 'Bedsit Murders' of Wendy Knell, 25, and Caroline Pierce, 20, in Kent

[jackal67]

Just shows you how slack UK hospitals are that an electrician would be allowed at two different hospitals to be left alone in a mortuary decade after decade.

It is basically the same hospital. Kent and sussex closed and moved to the new site in Pembury

 

[joe jones]

mortuary security will be reviewed , Sajid Javid has said . (Reported on tv news)

horse, stable, bolt comes to mind

He was certainly a "dumb" murderer, that's for sure. Very careless in leaving DNA all over the place with regards to Wendy Knell. He may have been more careful with Caroline Pierce because I suspect he would have known that Colin Pitchfork had, at that time, recently been busted based on DNA evidence. So with regards to Caroline, he dumped her near naked in dyke and where he probably assumed that nature and time would erase all the evidence. However, looking at the court case reports, he left DNA all over the scene of Wendy's murder including a shoe print and finger print.

he had the dead victims during thie period, and he had unlimited access to them, so that probably satisfied whatever urges he had involving sex with dead women

 

[Bluebear15]

What is it that normalises such acts of depravity in humans? By this I mean both the awful murders and the incomprehensible acts with corpses.

Is it how he was wired at birth or the consequence of abnormal conditioning during formative childhood and early adult life?

We need to understand this to assist in prevention and identifying possible offenders at an early stage.

I hope the psychiatrists/psychologists conduct a thorough forensic profile of his psychology and that DF feels compelled to cooperate fully and frankly.

There have been too many cases in the NHS where staff have been able to go unchecked whilst lone working without any peer-to-peer mentoring or appropriate transparency. Think Ian Paterson, Harold Shipman, Beverley Allitt, Jimmy Saville, Dr Joyce Trail and many, many others.

I know first hand, from investigating criminal allegations against NHS staff at work, that lone working without checks and balances is a common feature of the conditions that enabled the offending to occur. It's about time this was recognised as a significant risk and put right.

Jimmy Savile didn't work for the NHS - he was given access naively because of the money he raised for the NHS.
Joyce Trail was a dentist and it's unusual for them to not work alone. My dentist certainly does.
Imo

 

[Dotta]

Morgue killer's wife of 20 years speaks out | Daily Mail Online

 

[Bluebear15]

Or maybe he was forced to retire - he is 67 after all.
In Poland men retire at 65, women at 60.

There's no retirement age in the UK, and it's illegal to force someone to retire.

 

[joe jones]

It also to me once again reveals how useless the old trope is that murderers or serial killers/abusers behave differently once they have killed and LE always says look out for someone whose behaviour changed post the murder. Most murderers do not reveal anything post the crime, we have heard time and time again they are just the normal average person who commits an horrific (or series) of horrific crimes and goes back to his life as if nothing had happened.

He was married when he committed his crimes, he was married for 20 years to his last wife (who has spoken to media) who has obviously left him and is as horrified as everybody at what he did, she knew nothing of his crimes.





Unfortunately for us they do live amongst us and are able to keep the deep darkest desires and secrets to themselves.

One thing I will say is that serial killers abusers (from what I have observed, I have no specialist knowledge of psychology or behaviours) tend to pick partners who (again from observation and reading about cases) who are not overly curious and seem to accept what he tells them at face value.

This case and BTK reveals that in both cases they had huge amounts of trophies, evidence of their crimes in their homes, which neither wife knew about. I would have been in all his business, his office would not have been off limits to me so I would have found all his from day 1, seems the predators are able to pick partners who just let them keep all their stuff private and don't go looking. My red flags though would have been waving (if it is true) when he put CTV in his office.

 

[joe jones]

Morgue killer's wife of 20 years speaks out | Daily Mail Online

his wife gave an interview, I have to pinch my nose when reading anything from the Mail but sometimes needs must, they often do get the initial interviews,

One can only imagine the impact this is having on his four children, his 3 ex wives, their families, his family and friends, let alone the horrors of what he did to Wendy and Caroline and the impact it has had on their families.

As if all that wasn't horrendous we now learn of all his other victims and new families who are only just beginning to be told of just how depraved he is.

 

[Dotta]

It also to me once again reveals how useless the old trope is that murderers or serial killers/abusers behave differently once they have killed and LE always says look out for someone whose behaviour changed post the murder. Most murderers do not reveal anything post the crime, we have heard time and time again they are just the normal average person who commits an horrific (or series) of horrific crimes and goes back to his life as if nothing had happened.

He was married when he committed his crimes, he was married for 20 years to his last wife (who has spoken to media) who has obviously left him and is as horrified as everybody at what he did, she knew nothing of his crimes.





Unfortunately for us they do live amongst us and are able to keep the deep darkest desires and secrets to themselves.

One thing I will say is that serial killers abusers (from what I have observed, I have no specialist knowledge of psychology or behaviours) tend to pick partners who (again from observation and reading about cases) who are not overly curious and seem to accept what he tells them at face value.

This case and BTK reveals that in both cases they had huge amounts of trophies, evidence of their crimes in their homes, which neither wife knew about. I would have been in all his business, his office would not have been off limits to me so I would have found all his **** from day 1, seems the predators are able to pick partners who just let them keep all their stuff private and don't go looking. My red flags though would have been waving (if it is true) when he put CTV in his office.

It seems to me these killers are mostly psychopaths with no empathy at all.
They emulate emotions they observe in others.
This murderer looks absolutely harmless to me, soft spoken, some said he was charming.
But it is only a mask.

 

[jackal67]

Mentioning Fuller has a Tonbridge connection as well, Esme Hoad was battered to death in her own home in Tonbridge in December 1982. This case remains unsolved.

Yes. I remember this case well

 

[joe jones]

LE are probably overwhelmed at the new investigations they now have to undertake as at one point his second wife was a house parent at a school and they lived in staff accommodation on site, so I imagine they will be looking to see if he committed any crimes their.

I wonder if his 1973 convictions for burglary were spent when he got his job at the hospital, and if they required a DBS check (or what the equivalent of a DBS was then)

 

[Pinkizzy]

LE are probably overwhelmed at the new investigations they now have to undertake as at one point his second wife was a house parent at a school and they lived in staff accommodation on site, so I imagine they will be looking to see if he committed any crimes their.

I wonder if his 1973 convictions for burglary were spent when he got his job at the hospital, and if they required a DBS check (or what the equivalent of a DBS was then)

He was interested in raping dead bodies - he wouldn't rape a living person

 

[joe jones]

He was interested in raping dead bodies - he wouldn't rape a living person

we have no idea what other proclivities he had, he did commit two murders of living women in order to have sex with their bodies,

so necrophilia and murder may not be his only interests

 

[Dotta]

He was interested in raping dead bodies - he wouldn't rape a living person

But he had normal intimate relations with 3! wives.
So he wasnt restricted only to necrophilia.

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

But he had normal intimate relations with 3! wives.
So he wasnt restricted only to necrophilia.

and he had a number of affairs too...quite the ladies man it seems.

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

horse, stable, bolt comes to mind

he had the dead victims during thie period, and he had unlimited access to them, so that probably satisfied whatever urges he had involving sex with dead women

I don't think he had access to dead bodies till after 1989, which I believe is when he got his first gig with the NHS. Before that, he was working for a firm in Crowborough and I believe Caroline had worked at the Crowborough Buster Browns before she moved to working at the Tunbridge Wells Buster Browns. It's possible that he first came across Caroline in the Crowborough branch of Buster Browns during 1986.

 

[Dotta]

and he had a number of affairs too...quite the ladies man it seems.

There is a saying:
A man can be only a little bit more handsome than the devil to attract women haha
Unfortunately, they met the devil himself!

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

What I find difficult to comprehend is how didn’t anybody notice the bodies in the morgues had been tampered with or (I’m sorry about this) left with bodily fluids? Surely some must have had post-mortems?

Were some of these deceased women/children examined as part of forensic criminal investigations?

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

This is all local to me. I thought that someone had been charged for Jean Brooks murder ? Unless he was found not guilty? I may be wrong of course but thought it had been a lorry driver?

The 1979 Bedgebury murder went to trial. Nobody has ever been arrested for the murder of Jean Brook in 1982. Whether the Police hold DNA for that crime they have never said. In fact Kent Police never mention this unsolved case. I certainly hope they will now.

 

[I wonder]

I can’t imagine anyone more sick than this monster. My view that there are two versions of humanity, is proven beyond doubt. The only astonishing thing for me is that someone so depraved could apparently function in a way so as to appear ‘normal’. Evil truly does walk amongst us.

I can’t bear to imagine what his wife is going through. You’d never feel clean. His poor children. Imagine having his blood coursing through your veins. I hope they can somehow rebuild their lives.

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

What I find difficult to comprehend is how didn’t anybody notice the bodies in the morgues had been tampered with or (I’m sorry about this) left with bodily fluids? Surely some must have had post-mortems?

Were some of these deceased women/children examined as part of forensic criminal investigations?

He most likely knew of the 2007 CrimeWatch appeal and press releases about a full DNA profile being ascertained for the 1987 murders. No doubt he wore protection to keep bodily fluids etc to low or zero.

What I find amazing is he carried on with his antics regardless of Covid. He is in the "high risk" group due to his age but that didn't bother him, and I'm sure that morgue would have been chock full of Covid victims. And no, a mask would not have protected him. Also, bear in mind that he was arrested before the Covid vaccines were available. How come the deadly virus didn't get him?