UK - Arthur Labinjo Hughes, 6, killed, dad & friend arrested, June 2020 #2

[Discosally]

yes, because on the limited evidence that I have seen from the reporting, I am inclined to think he is not guilty of secondary murder because he didn’t know about the salt and other incidences of her cruelty like waking him up by pulling his duvet from under him. You could see from his answers that he genuinely didn’t know that she was waking him up like this.

I don’t feel sorry for him by the way, I just don’t think he is guilty of secondary murder because I don’t think he knew everything.

 

[ScottishSam]

yes, because on the limited evidence that I have seen from the reporting, I am inclined to think he is not guilty of secondary murder because he didn’t know about the salt and other incidences of her cruelty like waking him up by pulling his duvet from under him. You could see from his answers that he genuinely didn’t know that she was waking him up like this.

When the QC asked what went wrong? And he replied 'I met ET'.
I think seeing Arthur being thrown out his duvet, and how ET was trying to position Arthur between rooms after the final assault, maybe the penny finally dropped for him?
He also said she'd never hit Arthur, then the cctv showed she did.
Plus he said he had to ask her 3 times to phone an ambulance.

 

[Discosally]

By the way,
has ET been officially diagnosed as having any kind of personality disorder?
I think TH defence would jump on opportunity to present him as a poor lamb led astray by a disturbed woman.
Well, they tried to show he was a good dad before he met her but it wasnt too convincing.
Im not convinced at all.

I don’t know. She stated to Mr Richmond that she has a personality disorder but the reports don’t say if she disclosed what it is or if she was asked what it was, Mr Richmond is TH barrister so you would think that he would jump on that if it was formally diagnosed, it could just be her diagnosing herself in conversation with Mr Richmond?

 

[ScottishSam]

I don’t feel sorry for him by the way, I just don’t think he is guilty of secondary murder because I don’t think he knew everything.

I agree. I don't think he knew half of what was going on. Anyone with half a brain would question why their child had changed so much, so quickly and try everything in their power to help their child.

 

[Tinksx]

By the way,
has ET been officially diagnosed as having any kind of personality disorder?
I think TH defence would jump on opportunity to present him as a poor lamb led astray by a disturbed woman.
Well, they tried to show he was a good dad before he met her but it wasnt too convincing.
Im not convinced at all.

I think ET does have a personality disorder. I don’t think you could make that up in court. Otherwise there would be a whole host of defendants using this angle. It would’ve had to have been confirmed I would’ve thought.

Also, I had so many notifications when I logged back in this morning but I cannot find your one now. So just letting you know that I can’t find it and I’m not being ignorant

ETA Spelling mistake

 

[ScottishSam]

I also think that because ET has acted appealing on the stand, and her demeanour was brought up by TH counsel (“how ET is acting now is what she was like at home” - not verbatim) is only going to help TH. This is just things that i have noted and stood out to me. On the other hand, you have TH messages about “ending” Arthur in all matter of ways and more than once. So it’s really anyones guess which way this goes for TH.

Her behaviour on the stand was terrible. Like a petulant little girl. When she said she didn't think she'd have to account for every minute. Plus she got confused with her lies, and the judge had to intervene as she forgot what version 1 was and switched to version 2

 

[ChloLo]

For the secondary liability, his texts could be considered enough encouragement. He says he didn’t mean them in the way the are worded. But they could still be seen as giving ET carte blanche to abuse/kill Arthur.

IMO TH will get 3 charges of cruelty and murder. The only thing I think he won’t get is that charge relating to salt.

 

[ScottishSam]

For the secondary liability, his texts could be considered enough encouragement. He says he didn’t mean them in the way the are worded. But they could still be seen as giving ET carte blanche to abuse/kill Arthur.

IMO TH will get 3 charges of cruelty and murder. The only thing I think he won’t get is that charge relating to salt.

I think the texts will be seen as encouraging. 'Put him out with the rubbish', 'put a sock in his mouth' and the digging the grave one are indefensible, amongst the many others.

 

[Discosally]

By the way,
has ET been officially diagnosed as having any kind of personality disorder?
I think TH defence would jump on opportunity to present him as a poor lamb led astray by a disturbed woman.
Well, they tried to show he was a good dad before he met her but it wasnt too convincing.
Im not convinced at all.

Out of interest what makes you not convinced that he was a good dad before?

You see I think that he must have been purely because the prosecution witnesses even say that he was, and they are not defending any of his actions in anyway…they want full justice for Arthur, so I believe their testimony as there is no reason for them to say he was a good dad before if he wasn’t. Plus I think it sounds that he had a positive relationship with Arthur’s school and GP.

I like to hear other points of view as there are always things I could miss or haven’t considered.

 

[Dotta]

I agree. I don't think he knew half of what was going on. Anyone with a brain would question why their child had changed so much, so quickly and try everything in their power to help their child.

But the ignorance or as some say gaslighting by an evil woman does not exempt from following fundamental parental responsibilities.

 

[Dotta]

Out of interest what makes you not convinced that he was a good dad before?

You see I think that he must have been purely because the prosecution witnesses even say that he was, and they are not defending any of his actions in anyway…they want full justice for Arthur, so I believe their testimony as there is no reason for them to say he was a good dad before if he wasn’t. Plus I think it sounds that he had a positive relationship with Arthur’s school and GP.

I like to hear other points of view as there are always things I could miss or haven’t considered.

He never took care of the child before,
those who cared for Arthur were:
Olivia and then his parents.
He was as somebody and I earlier wrote - just a part time dad, or even less as he is like a child himself.

 

[ScottishSam]

Also, he had to know their treatment of Arthur was wrong. Didnt he tell ET to move Arthur to the back door as JH might be dropping a parcel off? If his mum had seen Arthur in the state he was I've no doubt she'd have intervened

 

[JimSteel]

This is the most horrific cruelty I ever read about. I can barely count the number of simultaneous and relentless tortures that Arthur was subjected to.

1. Starved
2. Dehydrated
3. Poisoned
4. Imprisoned
5. Beaten
6. Hit on the head (different category).
7. Made to stand all day alone
8. No bed
9. Ignored when crying or self-harm
10. Bullied, told was ugly, cut up shirts
11. Teased (others eat McD while he starved)
12. Tricked (pretend to bring to granddad)
13. Constantly monitored
14. No friends
15. Mother abandoned him
16. Constant pain from internal organs
17. Constant knowledge of next torture coming if not following all rules
18. All this done by people closest to you
19. Frustration and confusion. Why is this happening?
20. Threats seem real, burial, take head off
21. Knowledge he was going to be killed.

I tried to imagine two or three of these happening to me at the same time. I cannot. Arthur had all 21 of these, and probably more we don’t even know about, every day, all the time, relentlessly, for weeks and weeks.

I doubt that anybody who has not been brutally tortured can begin to understand the pain and loneliness that Arthur experienced. I wonder if the judge and jury can.

I’m a 46-year-old man. I can’t remember the last time I cried before this week. I’ve cried this week. Every day. I can’t bring myself to eat for the last two days because of what happened to Arthur. I have never obsessed over any case like this before. I was glad to find this forum to see other people feeling the same grief. Thank you for that.

There is no limit to human stupidity, and human cruelty. This poor boy experienced the worst of the worst. I will never forget this little boy, and his bravery and determination to merely stand up. God bless that special little boy. God help us all.

I hope these monsters experience one of the punishments they inflicted on Arthur. Imprisonment. Forever.

 

[ChloLo]

But the ignorance or as some say gaslighting by an evil woman does not exempt from following fundamental parental responsibilities.

Gaslighting can alter one’s perception of reality. It’s hard to explain unless you’ve experienced it.

 

[ScottishSam]

He never took care of the child before,
those who cared for Arthur were:
Olivia and then his parents.
He was as somebody and I earlier wrote - just a part time dad, or even less as he is like a child himself.

His brother posted on social media that he was very involved with Arthur. Was not a part time dad, and had him as much, if not more than Olivia did. Someone posted it here. Thread one I think, nearer the end

 

[Dotta]

His brother posted on social media that he was very involved with Arthur. Was not a part time dad, and had him as much, if not more than Olivia did. Someone posted it here. Thread one I think, nearer the end

No comment.

 

[ScottishSam]

This is the most horrific cruelty I ever read about. I can barely count the number of simultaneous and relentless tortures that Arthur was subjected to.

1. Starved
2. Dehydrated
3. Poisoned
4. Imprisoned
5. Beaten
6. Hit on the head (different category).
7. Made to stand all day alone
8. No bed
9. Ignored when crying or self-harm
10. Bullied, told was ugly, cut up shirts
11. Teased (others eat McD while he starved)
12. Tricked (pretend to bring to granddad)
13. Constantly monitored
14. No friends
15. Mother abandoned him
16. Constant pain from internal organs
17. Constant knowledge of next torture coming if not following all rules
18. All this done by people closest to you
19. Frustration and confusion. Why is this happening?
20. Threats seem real, burial, take head off
21. Knowledge he was going to be killed.

I tried to imagine two or three of these happening to me the same time. I cannot. Arthur had all 21 of these, and probably more we don’t even know about, every day, all the time, relentlessly, for weeks and weeks.

I doubt that anybody who has not been brutally tortured can begin to understand the pain and loneliness that Arthur experienced. I wonder if the judge and jury can.

I’m a 46-year-old man. I can’t remember the last time I cried before this week. I’ve cried this week. Every day. I can’t bring myself to eat for the last two days because of what happened to Arthur. I have never obsessed over any case like this before. I was glad to find this forum to see other people feeling the same grief. Thank you for that.

There is no limit to human stupidity, and human cruelty. This boy experienced the worst of the worst. God help us all.

I hope these monsters experience one of the punishments they inflicted on Arthur. Imprisonment. Forever.

While I agree with you. No 15 - his mum didn't abandon him. She murdered her new partner. If we all had crystal balls, I'm sure she'd not have done that.

 

[Discosally]

He never took care of the child before,
those who cared for Arthur were:
Olivia and then his parents.
He was as somebody and I earlier wrote - just a part time dad, or even less as he is like a child himself.

But even taking him being a part time dad, there’s nothing in the prosecution witness testimonies that would make me think they are lying, it makes no difference if it was part time shared custody if he was actually a good father at the times he had care of Arthur? He stated that had never moved out of home until he moved with ET…did OLH live with them in the annexe at his parents property until they broke up?
Also I think if he wasn’t a good father, would OLH not have tried to prevent him from having sole custody whilst she is in prison, she does have that right? For me, there isn’t the evidence there to say he wasn’t a good father before, it all points to that he was.

 

[ChloLo]

His brother posted on social media that he was very involved with Arthur. Was not a part time dad, and had him as much, if not more than Olivia did. Someone posted it here. Thread one I think, nearer the end

We have to be very careful about this, because of the rules. But yes according to the brother TH and Olivia were together when Arthur was born. Until they split up. Then TH had Arthur a lot, even though he primarily lived with Olivia. The brother even said TH was his go to for childcare. Then TH had full custody when Olivia went to prison. I can’t face trying to scroll BL to check if the brother was a prosecution witness.

 

[ScottishSam]

No comment.

Well they knew him better than any of us.