UK - Arthur Labinjo Hughes, 6, killed, dad & friend arrested, June 2020 #2

[Dotta]

But they do have emotional ties to their children, but not the normal ones.

She could have seen her children as a possession, and why she was so angry when Arthur got the better of her son in boxing.

A lot of time narcissist parents will have a 'golden child' and scape goat and play the kids off each other for example, for their own ego.

And don't forget she had 2 children taken away from her that she didn't see anymore, which we have no idea why due to all the privacy of family courts.
And her current two she only had shared care which again seems odd.

Also why is everyone taking her word that she was abused? She is a compulsive liar, and a good one at that, she would know that it could gain sympathy, i do not believe a single thing that evil woman says.

Well, I suppose there are levels of psychopathy, no?

These are only my amateur musings.
Im just always curious what "makes people tick". I find it fascinating.
But maybe I should remember the famous English saying about curiosity and a cat???

 

[ScottishSam]

@Dotta
You've mentioned you're a teacher. I'm not sure what ages you teach but you must have some insights into the minds of children.
What's your view on Arthur's state of mind when all this was happening to him?

 

[Blondiexoxo]

I don’t buy that ET just ‘lost her ****’ with Arthur. This was prolonged abuse, prolonged neglect and torture. This was not a sudden fit of rage. It was pure evil, calculated systematic abuse, and ultimately murder. IMO MOO

 

[Powermjp]

Well, I suppose there are levels of psychopathy, no?

These are only my amateur musings.
Im just always curious what "makes people tick". I find it fascinating.
But maybe I should remember English saying about curiosity and a cat???

Yeah you get some who blend in and who manage to live in society, i agree with you they do 'copy' normal behaviour they have seen, and if it works they will use that like a script to roll out, this is usually around emotions, scary stuff

 

[Discosally]

Just catching up with todays transcripts. Such horrible reading. Mr Hankin did Arthur proud, he is phenomenal.
Let’s hope they get long sentences. Thank you to whoever posted all the BL feed. The poor jury, what a case to sit in on.

 

[ScottishSam]

I don’t buy that ET just ‘lost her ****’ with Arthur. This was prolonged abuse, prolonged neglect and torture. This was not a sudden fit of rage. It was pure evil, calculated systematic abuse, and ultimately murder. IMO MOO

I agree it was prolonged abuse, but I think the final *alleged* assault was a fit of rage. I think she saw red, and couldn't stop herself. Or maybe, he refused to eat the salt and she thought bashing his head off the floor *allegedly* would get it down him

 

[ScottishSam]

I tell you: BEWILDERMENT!
I can see him with his mouth agape and eyes bulging when Mr H addressed him.

So, as I've said my son is Arthur's age. I can imagine how terrified my wee man would be if I spoke to him like they spoke to Arthur. For either of mine to stand for hours on end would require me to be an absolute monster, who would leave my children in no doubt that they'd be hurt if they didn't do what I told them.
I imagine their views and opinions would be silenced as they'd be terrified of me.
I imagine, like Arthur probably did, they'd wish for someone to come and rescue them from their horrible experiences.
I thought QC Hankin did a great job of being Arthur's voice today, and I'm trying to imagine the lengths I'd have to go to get this level of compliance (fear) from my own 2.

 

[Dotta]

When I answered the previous post I thought about TH today - I misunderstood your question Scottish Sam.

Well, I think TH today felt absolutely bewildered.
I can see him with his mouth agape and bulging eyes when Mr H addressed him.
He is a deluded person.

As for Arthur - bewildered too.
Deeply unhappy, feeling lost and unloved.
Literally fighting for his life.

 

[ScottishSam]

When I answered the previous post I thought about TH today - I misunderstood your question Scottish Sam.

Well, I think TH today felt absolutely bewildered.
I can see him with his mouth agape and bulging eyes when Mr H addressed him.
He is a deluded person.

As for Arthur - bewildered too.
Deeply unhappy, feeling lost and unloved.
Literally fighting for his life.

No that's OK. Someone else posted way back Arthur would have felt this was all his fault, that he was unloved, and unloveable.
I remember when my son was 6 there was an incident at school, his teacher didn't believe my son's version of events. And he was inconsolable. I think when TH asked Arthur what had happened, and then believed ET over him Arthur would have been so hurt and bewildered. He would probably have stopped telling his truth, because he knew TH wouldn't listen anyway.

 

[Dotta]

No that's OK. Someone else posted way back Arthur would have felt this was all his fault, that he was unloved.
I remember when my son was 6 there was an incident at school, his teacher didn't believe my son's version of events. And he was inconsolable. I think when TH asked Arthur what had happened, and then believed ET over him Arthur would have been so hurt and bewildered. He would probably have stopped telling his truth, because he knew TH wouldn't listen anyway.

He would be afraid of telling the truth - afraid of revenge of ET.

 

[JimSteel]

No that's OK. Someone else posted way back Arthur would have felt this was all his fault, that he was unloved, and unloveable.
I remember when my son was 6 there was an incident at school, his teacher didn't believe my son's version of events. And he was inconsolable. I think when TH asked Arthur what had happened, and then believed ET over him Arthur would have been so hurt and bewildered. He would probably have stopped telling his truth, because he knew TH wouldn't listen anyway.

Yes, the injustice

 

[ScottishSam]

Yes, the injustice

It's the sheer stupidity as well. If I ask one of my kids what happened for some event, then ask them later on the same day I get a different version. As a parent I expect this, and as long as the general story is the same I believe them. Children don't work on the same time frames adults do. For TH to say Arthur's story had changed so he believed ET - it's bizarre.

 

[Dotta]

It's the sheer stupidity as well. If I ask one of my kids what happened for some event, then ask them later on the same day I get a different version. As a parent I expect this, and as long as the general story is the same I believe them. Children don't work on the same time frames adults do. For TH to say Arthur's story had changed so he believed ET - it's bizarre.

Arthur got scared by aggressive interrogation.
The 1st version is, almost always, true.

 

[ScottishSam]

Arthur got scared by aggressive interrogation.
The 1st version is, almost always, true.

Definitely. Children's stories tend to move from one thing to another within a conversation, sometimes it's hard to unpick exactly what they're saying. But, if they say 'x hit me', then that's true and I'd believe them. Later, it might be expanded on, or slightly different, but the story itself doesn't change.

 

[Tortoise]

What I'm trying to reconcile is this portrayal of TH as an unconfident coerced victim of ET, who stands in court arguing his case and denying all the charges. Where is his shame now?

I think they were a team and both of them wanted a punchbag to vent their rages. Equally vindictive and angry, and what shines through in all of their evidence and persists even after Arthur's death is that they see themselves as the victims. I cannot believe the lack of remorse.

 

[Lancslass]

Can anyone make heads or tails of this:
“Judge Wall tells the jury they cannot convict Hughes of a more serious offence on count one as Tustin.”
Is this because he’s charged under secondary liability?

I think it means they can’t find Hughes guilty of murder and Tustin of manslaughter.
Something to do with him not being present when Arthur died maybe?

 

[ScottishSam]

What I'm trying to reconcile is this portrayal of TH as an unconfident coerced victim of ET, who stands in court arguing his case and denying all the charges. Where is his shame now?

I think they were a team and both of them wanted a punchbag to vent their rages. Equally vindictive and angry, and what shines through in all of their evidence and persists even after Arthur's death is that they see themselves as the victims. I cannot believe the lack of remorse.

I believe he valued ETs opinion above else. For whatever reason that is, which we've all thrashed out. I believe he's expecting to be found guilty. ET, I think she'll forever protest her innocence in all this.
I think TH has shown a degree of remorse, ET hasn't shown any. She was forced to admit the guilty charge of child cruelty. How many other times did she hit Arthur away from the cctv, or before it was installed?

 

[Dotta]

You know, I guess TH viewed ET as another Mummy (except sex, of course).
He ran errands for her, played PlayStation, lived in her house
(earlier lived in parental garden).
She organised everything, gave commands and he obeyed.
Parental legal responsibility and breach of it - these are alien concepts to him.
In the end, he accused "Mum".
"Mummy made me do it all".

 

[ScottishSam]

I think it means they can’t find Hughes guilty of murder and Tustin of manslaughter.
Something to do with him not being present when Arthur died maybe?

That's my understanding of it. ET is the only one who can be found guilty of delivering the final blow. So he can't get a murder charge, and her manslaughter

 

[ScottishSam]

You know, I guess TH viewed ET as another Mummy ( except sex, of course).
He ran errands for her, played PlayStation, lived in her house
(earlier lived in parental garden).
She organised everything, gave commands and he obeyed.
Parental legal responsibility and breach of it - these are alien concepts to him.
In the end, he accused "Mum".
"Mummy made me do it all".

So I think the errand running was part of ETs plan to show TH what a naughty boy Arthur was. I've forced myself to watch the cctv of Arthur again, and compared it with earlier pictures. I see my children's bodies every day, I know every bruise and scratch, and always ask where they got them. I'd notice weight loss, excessive bruising. If they stopped eating on some kind of hunger strike I'd get them involved in cooking their meals.
TH abdicated all responsibility, and failed Arthur completely.